AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 6

[BetteDavisEyes]

So, the presser is in an hour (11:00 EDT)? I will stick around to listen or read live posts before I leave to get my allergy injection.

 

[CN2Souls]

Could the LE that was at her door with uncle have been one that was flagged down on patrol or something before the 911 call was made?

 

[Patty G]

Whenever my dogs past or present barked while I was sleeping and they woke me up, the first thing I would do is check the time. I did this for a variety of reasons, is it in the middle of the night and they need to be quiet, or perhaps, did I over sleep and they want to come out of their crate.

 

[Lava]

As far as the dogs barking, and I'm sorry if someone has asked already, if someone in the house was involved, would their own dogs be barking? The only thing I can think of is if the uncle was living in the car, the dogs probably would have barked at him if he was entering the house.

 

[CarrieBean]

I am reading the posts more as the neighbor doesn't have the time right when she got the knock on the door.

I figure the neighbor didn't hear any commotion next door because there wasn't anyone screaming around the house, or slamming doors, or even looking on the side of the house where Isa's room is located. JMO

Exactly

 

[TxLady2]

I'm getting the feeling that our whole impression of the timeline is way off. I thought LE wasn't called until 8:14 (or something around there). If that's so, where did the cop come from at 8 or 8:05? Someone is definitely off with the timing.

Was that the time the 911 call came in? Or was it the time LE responded to the call? Could be significant. Sometimes when a call comes through, cops may not respond immediately, depending on where they are when the call comes in. In the meantime, dispatchers are trying to keep the caller on the line and get as many details as possible. They do note what time the call came in, but the officers also note what time they arrive at the location where the call originated. We need to know which is which.

Also could be that the neighbor only glanced at her clock and saw that it said 8-something. It could have been 8:25, she just didn't notice the minutes as closely as she did the hour. And for that matter, the father may not be exact as to the time he discovered his daughter missing. Who is going to take note of something like that when they're thrown into a state of shock and distress?

 

[CarrieBean]

Could the LE that was at her door with uncle have been one that was flagged down on patrol or something before the 911 call was made?

I was wondering that as well...if the timing is fairly accurate.

 

[CN2Souls]

As I said, I don't have a dog but a very smart Cat....

She wakes me anytime there is something not right in the house,

I have 3 adopted Autistic boys and if one of them wakes up in the night, she come right to me and wakes me up...

 

[scout35]

The neighbor may have been sleeping when Isa's family were *possibly* calling her name, looking for her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she slept through it. I'm sure Isa's parent's have called out her and her brother's names on many occasions so it's most likely a familiar sound that wouldn't necessarily wake someone up.

Also, the dogs barking outside and the men talking aren't the reasons why she woke up at 6:30, her dog barking is what woke her up and she then heard the men talking outside.

She seems to be a young woman who probably likes to sleep late and probably sleeps deeply, especially on a Saturday morning. I think her dog woke her up, she glanced at her cell phone to see what time it is, moaned that it was early, heard some guys talking and fell back to sleep in a matter of a minute or two.

 

[~n/t~]

Just curious. Why are some speculating the uncle may be involved? Anything tangible to suggest he may have taken or harmed Isabel? Or is it because the neighbour said he showed up at her door?

 

[Patty G]

Who breaks into a home and snatches a little girl at 0630! No one! Broad daylight when most people are waking up? Isabel just happens to sleep in a room alone, rather than with her brothers(the norm). The dogs just happen to be in the home that night, rather than outside(the norm) running by that ally.

I strongly suspect someone staying in the home involved. They probably passed her out the window to whom ever was waiting. No little girl voice or struggle. So, she was deceased or sedated. Maybe the husband or Uncle chose that time, as wife in shower. But, or both of those men likely involved. I will be surprised if not. On NG, a neighbor called in and said he has video cameras that point right at Isa's house. That should reveal what happened!?

Do you recall on which night this neighbor called in about her video cameras pointing towards Isa's house? I want to go back and read that transcript. TIA

 

[CharlestonGal]

I really don't think the 6:30 a.m. activity has anything to do with Isabel's disappearance. Mom was likely already up and getting ready to go to work, dogs are running around barking, it was already daylight and people were out and about. LE remarked that trash had already been picked up that morning before they could put a stop to it. If people outside the family are involved, that's an insanely risky time to enter a home and kidnap a child. If family is involved, it doesn't leave a lot of time to take Isabel out of the house, transport her somewhere, and be back in time to report her missing at 0815 - all without anyone seeing anything.

I think the reason the neighbor didn't think anything about the dogs and voices at the time is because it was not unusual activity for that time of the morning. It was so unremarkable to her that she didn't even bother to look out the window. I wouldn't bother either, if it was me. I have plenty of inconsiderate neighbors who leave their dogs outside barking their heads off for hours at a time and at all hours. The same with people up early and outside talking (or coming home at 3 a.m.). I don't pay any attention to it anymore unless it's something really radical. Barking dogs and people talking - meh. That is not noteworthy at all. Not at 6:30 a.m., not at noon, not at 2:00 a.m. in the morning.

 

[nvrforgtn]

I wached NG last night and from what I remember, the neighbor said the uncle came to her door at 8:00 or 8:05, but she didn't know he was Isa's uncle until the cop came to her door and told her (later). That was my understanding.

 

[CarrieBean]

As far as the dogs barking, and I'm sorry if someone has asked already, if someone in the house was involved, would their own dogs be barking? The only thing I can think of is if the uncle was living in the car, the dogs probably would have barked at him if he was entering the house.

I was wondering that too. Possibly if Isabel was being carried and handed between people? Most dogs have good instincts when something is wrong. I know mine hated any kind of horse play. She would bark, and get in the middle of my boys when they were wrestling. If an adult picked them up in a playful manner, same thing..."don't mess with my kids". If one were being passed around she would sure let you know to drop her kid.

 

[SurfieTX]

I really don't think the 6:30 a.m. activity has anything to do with Isabel's disappearance. Mom was likely already up and getting ready to go to work, dogs are running around barking, it was already daylight and people were out and about. LE remarked that trash had already been picked up that morning before they could put a stop to it. If people outside the family are involved, that's an insanely risky time to enter a home and kidnap a child. If family is involved, it doesn't leave a lot of time to take Isabel out of the house, transport her somewhere, and be back in time to report her missing at 0815 - all without anyone seeing anything.

I think the reason the neighbor didn't think anything about the dogs and voices at the time is because it was not unusual activity for that time of the morning. It was so unremarkable to her that she didn't even bother to look out the window. I wouldn't bother either, if it was me. I have plenty of inconsiderate neighbors who leave their dogs outside barking their heads off for hours at a time and at all hours. The same with people up early and outside talking (or coming home at 3 a.m.). I don't pay any attention to it anymore unless it's something really radical. Barking dogs and people talking - meh. That is not noteworthy at all. Not at 6:30 a.m., not at noon, not at 2:00 a.m. in the morning.

I totally agree. Whatever happened, IMO, occurred closer to the hours of midnight - 3:00 a.m.

 

[liz b.]

Did scent hounds track Isa's scent going away from the house ? If so,is it known where the dogs lost her scent ? TIA

 

[CarrieBean]

It would sure help if we knew what type of dog hit in the home.

 

[ehough22]

About the neighbor not hearing anyone looking for Isabel- I don't necessarily think that's hinky (though it could be!). We know the neighbor was asleep at 6:30 when she heard voices. We do not know where she was at 8am. It's possible she was awake, in a different room (one not right next to the Celis house?), had the TV on, etc. I'd guess she was already awake and going about her business and therefore was not in the same room where she was at 6:30. I also think she could easily be off on her 8:00/8:05 time, which to me doesn't make her not a credible witness. She's just human. It was likely 8 something when she got the knock on her door.

I believe she heard what she heard at 6:30. I just can't determine if she heard Isabel being taken. It seems awfully coincidental that she heard commotion on the one day her next door neighbor was kidnapped. I also believe, based on my knowledge of dogs, that those dogs were let out by Isabel's mom and immediately they knew something. Either they smelled a stranger had been there or the person was still around.

6:30 seems awfully brazen, to be sure. Part of me wonders if something unfortunate happened to Isa inside the home - molestation, accidental death, etc, and it wasn't until morning that the offender realized Isa had passed.

Do we know what time Isa's dad woke up for the day? Could both her parents have been outside feeding the dogs (as we are told they do) or quieting them down, accounting for the voices?

 

[Patty G]

STARDEVANT: The next thing I heard was a knock on my front door from her uncle and an officer saying that Isabel was missing.

GRACE: What time was that?

STARDEVANT: It`d be 8:00.

GRACE: So at 8:00 AM. Are you sure of that time?

STARDEVANT: It might have been 8:05. It was definitely 8:00-ish.

GRACE: OK...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... because I know that they called police around 8:00 AM. Did you happen to hear, or can you hear Ms. Celis when she leaves in the morning for her job as a nurse?

STARDEVANT: I can`t, no. I don`t know exactly when she leaves for work in the morning.

GRACE: So between your dog barking and their dogs barking, when was it you went back along that alleyway and looked at Isabel`s window?

STARDEVANT: Yes. Oh, sorry...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: When? What time?

STARDEVANT: It was right -- it was right after they told me. I put on some clothes, and I looked over the wall. So it was probably, like, 8:15 maybe.

GRACE: When the uncle came to talk to you, what did he ask?

STARDEVANT: He asked if I had seen a little girl that was missing. He didn`t right away say that it was his niece. And then later, when I came out, the officer told me it was his niece.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/ng.01.html

IMO, I am thinking that it was FIRST the uncle that came over, and then after that the neighbor got dressed and when she went outside ~8:15 ish, is when the police told her that Isa is the niece to the uncle.

I think when the neighbor indicated that the uncle and police were at her door, is just a combination of the uncle first knocking at 8:00 ish and then the police shortly thereafter once the neighbor went outside.

This makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[insatiable]

I can't find it now but someone posted a picture of one of the dogs in the door of the house. Is that the same kind of dog as the uncles dog he has photos of on facebook? Is one of the three dogs his dog? He also has a photo of his jeep in front of a house.....Celis house? There is also a photo of a mountain (lemmon i think it was) taken from the front yard...Celis front yard? How long has he been in AZ? Maybe Isabel does stay in the brothers room because someone stays in hers??