Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #4

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Amber Alert could have been issued if it was thought that JJR was in any way responsible for Bella's disappearance --

As a parent, I would have welcomed officers and K9 unit into my house immediately.

From what I can tell the immediate K9 available in BHC PD is not only a trained take down for suspects dog but a drug dectecting dog.

I am guessing locals would know that....


http://www.bullheadcity.com/index.asp?SEC=A40C67AD-2E61-480C-8834-9795E9B8EAB9&Type=B_BASIC

BHC is within Mohave County and search dogs are available - excellent SAR capabilities

http://www.mohavecounty.us/ContentPage.aspx?id=131&cid=84

the need to cover one's own bad behavior would seem to me to trump the need to find Bella IMO
 
Forgive me but speaking as someone who raised many fur-babies prior to human babies, I can unequitably state that the two are in no means the same.

When you become a parent (to human children) there are more moral, legal and ethical laws, not to mention innate instincts, that govern every single decision.

When a fellow 'human parent' fails miserably and fatefully in their role, it is not just offensive, but emotionally devastating.

I had too quit covering crime since I had 'human babies' because it was biologically impossible to separate my own parentage from the victim's.

With all due respect, I cannot fathom any 'parent' taking the position that the neglect in the victim's household, had NOTHING to do with the people the parents chose to care for their children.

I've not stated they were the same, but I did indicate the depth to which my spouse and I care for our canines. To suggest there is no "moral, legal and ethical" aspects and "innate instincts" we employ to caring for our canines (in my and my spouse's world) is inaccurate and somewhat insulting. Yes, there are no equitable laws in the sense you intend but we treat our canines (short of treating them as if they were human, such as we do not dress them up and pretend to send them to school) as they are our children. Our interaction with our canines might be unique, as we (both or at least one of us) are *always* with our canines (except for during the occasional ER / veterinary hospital stays ..which in the extreme cases require driving 3 hours to OSU VC and doing a hotel stint for 3-5 days or longer periods) and engage, feed, play, admonish and love them no differently than we would with human children, minus the obvious speaking and whining and other human-specific-joys one experiences with human children.

I should think parents do what they do for their human children not because of moral, legal and ethical laws, but they do it because it is what they are supposed to do, and so it is the same with our family and our 'children'.

To assume I could not not experience emotional devastation in the child cases is also somewhat offensive. Shall I syntactically wear my emotions on my sleeve and pound my chest in these threads to satisfy a standard? As I have commented previously, I have the ability to separate extreme emotions from sleuth-think and when I choose, such as now, I will display an appropriate level of emotion when I feel it necessary to emphasize a relevant point or defend my stance.

No harm, no foul. :smile:

Are we sure whether or not JJR had been placed in charge of the children that evening? We have heard TG state JJR had babysat her children on previous occasions but I do not recall court documents indicating JJR had been given that charge (watch the children) for that evening. I suspect he was not given that charge. The issue is, then, that TG and RF left their children alone 'downstairs' and assumed the best because 'GM was in the house'. Complacency and incompetent thinking at best.
 
I'm off to bed but:

1) Tania didn't pay the ultimate price. Bella is the only one that lost her life.
2) As someone that is currently fighting for bed space with 2 teacup Chorkies and 2 Great Pyrenees - it is really insulting to suggest that raising fur babies is in any way comparable to raising actual children. I've never had to worry that someone may beat up my dogs up to take their iPhone and the odds of my dogs being abducted by a pedo are about nil. Let's not trivialize what Bella or any other child goes through by comparing them to a dog that needs medical care.


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Amber Alert could have been issued if it was thought that JJR was in any way responsible for Bella's disappearance --

As a parent, I would have welcomed officers and K9 unit into my house immediately.

From what I can tell the immediate K9 available in BHC PD is not only a trained take down for suspects dog but a drug dectecting dog.

I am guessing locals would know that....


http://www.bullheadcity.com/index.asp?SEC=A40C67AD-2E61-480C-8834-9795E9B8EAB9&Type=B_BASIC

BHC is within Mohave County and search dogs are available - excellent SAR capabilities

http://www.mohavecounty.us/ContentPage.aspx?id=131&cid=84

the need to cover one's own bad behavior would seem to me to trump the need to find Bella IMO

MOO ...that likely would have made inadmissible any and all discovered items relevant to JJR. Even though it is TG's house, JJR's clothing and items belong to him and without his consent to search through his belongings, LE's hands were tied. It was not until LE located JJR and had their conversation that LE was able to develop probable cause for a search warrant.

It does beg the question, is there an assumed and automatic probable cause to search *everything* when a child is reported missing? AFAIK, search warrants must detail targeted items so 'automatic' PC might not be possible.
 
"I should think parents do what they do for their human children not because of moral, legal and ethical laws, but they do it because it was they are supposed to do, and so it is the same with our family and our 'children'.

I rather think it is because we love them and we love them in a way that is unique to each one of us.We do what we KNOW,how we grew up,our surroundings ........TG was proud of the big slide in the back yard and she did state she always provided for her kids "legal or not".I do think she loves her kids.
Moving forward,what can WE do? What can I do? I live in a neighborhood where I know some of the familys are using.....am I supposed to call CPS on them? .....I'm serious,it's so sad but it's the bigger picture.Poverty,drug addiction what is there to do to combat these issues?
 
"speaking and whining"....:facepalm:

I understand, now.
 
And that likely would have made inadmissible any and all discovered items relevant to JJR. Even though it is TG's house, JJR's clothing and items belong to him and without his consent to search through his belongings, LE's hands were tied. It was not until LE located JJR and had their conversation that LE was able to develop probable cause for a search warrant.

It does beg the question, is there an assumed and automatic probable cause to search *everything* when a child is reported missing? AFAIK, search warrants must detail targeted items so 'automatic' PC might not be possible.

Realistically just sticking with the facts that a child has gone missing:

an item that belonged to Bella would have been used as a benchmark scent and the search could have started for Bella

for me as a parent that would have been job 1
 
"speaking and whining"....:facepalm:

I understand, now.

I don't understand? Is this about my post? I'm absolutely heart broken about Bella,I know so many children growing up just like her.Am I whining? Absolutely.I wished I could do something,anything.
 
I'm off to bed but:

1) Tania didn't pay the ultimate price. Bella is the only one that lost her life.
2) As someone that is currently fighting for bed space with 2 teacup Chorkies and 2 Great Pyrenees - it is really insulting to suggest that raising fur babies is in any way comparable to raising actual children. I've never had to worry that someone may beat up my dogs up to take their iPhone and the odds of my dogs being abducted by a pedo are about nil. Let's not trivialize what Bella or any other child goes through by comparing them to a dog that needs medical care.

Of course they certainly do not equate on a level comparable to that of the parents of a murdered child or of parents worrying when the next scraped knee or bloodied nose will limp through the door or preparing for the next school activity.

But let me tell you: when our beautiful dog stops breathing, falls down to her side, her legs strain outward and her body convulses my reaction is no less immediate and purposeful than those of a parent addressing the needs of their child. And during the episodes that have occurred when I was on a different level of the house and I heard my spouse yell my name from upstairs and I ended up with bruises, cuts and broken bones from the occasions when I slipped on the stairs or across the non-carpeted wood floor of the bedroom in effort to arrive to the scene, I never realized the injuries occurred because my focus is on the needs of my beautiful dog.

We have less than 30 seconds from onset to clear and resuscitate her. My spouse unfortunately is not physically able to perform the necessary actions to help our girl. To date, over six years our girl has had 16 such episodes and our emotion and response of recent are the same as with the first occurrence. We have prematurely aged, both mentally and physically with our effort in caring for our dogs. Unfortunately we lost our Tucker six years ago to a medical issue and the sense of loss and pain is just as real.

I do not believe, nor have I implied our situations are equivalent to parents concerned with abduction, sexual assault and murder ...but the issues we (my spouse and I) deal with are equally important to us, are no less emotional, draining and aging to us.

My post was not comparing the lives of a dog and a child, but I certainly was raising the point those of us whose 'children' that happen to be canines have our own concerns and worries and even though those issues do not equate to what is applicable specifically to children, the concerns and worries are no less important to us and in certain cases, are critical in nature.
 
"speaking and whining"....:facepalm:

I understand, now.

Why not include the line in context .. I added clarification words within [brackets] since the rest of that post is not included in this quote:

[we] engage, feed, play, admonish and love them [our doggies] no differently than we would with human children, minus the obvious speaking and whining and other human-specific-joys one experiences with human children.

That fact my spouse and I do not have children now does not mean that we have not had the pleasure. I suppose if I were a religious type I would accept that auto accidents are 'part of a god's plan' and say may their soul rest peacefully.

We love our doggies, and we have only doggies now for a reason and I will not ever discuss it further in this forum.

We tend to forgive people who express with holier-than-thou snark, but sometimes, patience wears thin.
 
Realistically just sticking with the facts that a child has gone missing:

an item that belonged to Bella would have been used as a benchmark scent and the search could have started for Bella

for me as a parent that would have been job 1

I agree. Do we know if LE even asked to search TG's house that evening? When was a SAR dog(s) brought on to the scene?
 
I agree. Do we know if LE even asked to search TG's house that evening? When was a SAR dog(s) brought on to the scene?

I wonder about that too. I have only seen rumors and speculation that LE asked to search the house that evening and TG refused permission. It's clear they came back with a warrant but their could be other reasons for this than TG refusing to let them search.
 
MOO ...that likely would have made inadmissible any and all discovered items relevant to JJR. Even though it is TG's house, JJR's clothing and items belong to him and without his consent to search through his belongings, LE's hands were tied. It was not until LE located JJR and had their conversation that LE was able to develop probable cause for a search warrant.

It does beg the question, is there an assumed and automatic probable cause to search *everything* when a child is reported missing? AFAIK, search warrants must detail targeted items so 'automatic' PC might not be possible.

I don't believe this to be true. I can let LE in without a warrant and they could bag evidence from my husband who was at work. A roommate can do the same. Only one person needs to give LE permission. If that roommate has their own room then that might be different but the common areas and others personal space who gave consent can be searched. If the roommate isn't on the lease or the owner I also believe they are allowed to search. MOO.
 
Is it reported in court documents that TG refused any requests from LE for to search the house in the hours just after Isabella had gone missing and before the now-infamous ("Hands up!") search warrant was served?

I seem to recall the search warrant was issued / served *after* LE had located and spoken to JJR? If that is true the search warrant makes sense ...it woudl be requited for LE to legally search for and extract items relevant to JJR and possibly relevant to Isabella's clothing (since JJR had replaced his clothing that provided probable cause for to search for Isabella's clothing, even though LE had not yet located the body and eventual state of dress) .

What? She wouldn't allow the police in the house to search? Her 8 year old daughter is missing and they had to get a search warrant? That is crazy!
 
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