GUILTY AZ - Sylar Newton, 2, Rimrock, 25 July 2010 - #2
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Soulmagent
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My 12 year old rot/shep mix died 2 years ago. I had her for 5 years but she really bonded with our family after being rescued from an outside pen.
My daughter was at the age where she was trying me all the time. She would leave the house without telling me or take off from the bus stop after school. Everyday no matter how long she had been gone that dog the minute it was let out, would put is nose to the ground and hunt her down and wait for her to leave whoevers house.
The dog would show up at the store my kids walked to and follow the trail where they went. After my kid had friends with cars at arround 15 if the dog came home before my kid I knew she had left the neighborhood. My daughter didnt know for a long time that I was letting the dog out so I would know where she was I only had to ride the street and look for my 110 pound dog on a porch. Rain or not. Hours later . I miss that dog. My daughter has since outgrown her foolishness. Mostly.
This dog was not a SAR dog just a reg extra lazy dog. I dont believe Sylar went anywhere on his own.
My daughter was at the age where she was trying me all the time. She would leave the house without telling me or take off from the bus stop after school. Everyday no matter how long she had been gone that dog the minute it was let out, would put is nose to the ground and hunt her down and wait for her to leave whoevers house.
The dog would show up at the store my kids walked to and follow the trail where they went. After my kid had friends with cars at arround 15 if the dog came home before my kid I knew she had left the neighborhood. My daughter didnt know for a long time that I was letting the dog out so I would know where she was I only had to ride the street and look for my 110 pound dog on a porch. Rain or not. Hours later . I miss that dog. My daughter has since outgrown her foolishness. Mostly.
This dog was not a SAR dog just a reg extra lazy dog. I dont believe Sylar went anywhere on his own.
newone
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My honey and I were discussing this over sunset this evening and he said that there is no way that a tyke that young and small would be alert at this point. Even IF no foul play is involved the desert is mean as far as dehydration is concerned - he'd have collapsed by now (sorry to be so grisly this evening) -- I have been hopeful actually that an extended family member did scoop him and he's ok and sheltered.
MsFacetious
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We've also had a few bear sightings in Utah...but I would not consider that indicative of Arizona. Montana is the top of the US and Arizona is the bottom. Unless there has been attacks, or at least sightings in Arizona I wouldn't consider the other states as evidence.
A bear is the only animal I can see taking him without leaving a trail or a scent. (I don't need to elaborate on that.)
But I don't think that's what happened either.
A bear is the only animal I can see taking him without leaving a trail or a scent. (I don't need to elaborate on that.)
But I don't think that's what happened either.
3 days without water would be impossible to survive... child or adult.
However, if we are going to talk about the scenario of him wandering off, then the glimmer of hope is that is has been humid, it has rained pretty much everyday and there is the creek.
But those same positives make for ideal conditions for bloodhounds to do their work...which we know came up empty. When it's hot & dry, a dog's sense of smell is diminished.
***Time to rant some more about Az journalism. This story has basically been dropped from all of the major local news websites. Luckily, one did grace it's front page with an article about a new Hooters restaurant opening, and another had a story about a woman caught selling counterfeit purses. I want to scream!!!! Granted, we do have a lot of junk going on here in Az at the moment... with the immigration law, and the sad news of a few police officers being shot (one which died)... and a medical chopper crashed which killed all on board. Sylar's story isn't standing a chance.
newone
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It freaks me out to think of it...I like your positive remarks about the recent rainfall up North...((I am holding out hope))...I have witnessed what dehydration for little fellas is like ( years ago my daughter at 5 yrs went dishraggy limp from triple digit weather on me and it is a memory I don't like too much -- high heat and no water = not good)
newone
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here's the latest link I can find
quote:
A search of five pools in the area also came up empty, according to Newnum, who said they have not found any trace of blood from an animal trying to take the toddler away.
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=83716
quote:
A search of five pools in the area also came up empty, according to Newnum, who said they have not found any trace of blood from an animal trying to take the toddler away.
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=83716
MsFacetious
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D'Evelyn said the family members are not suspects or facing any charges at this time and they are cooperating with investigators, who are also working to talk to Syler's biological mother.
D'Evelyn said the Federal Bureau of Investigation is helping out, and at least one of the adults with Syler took a polygraph test, which is normal in a missing child investigation.
D'Evelyn said deputies went through interviews with about 25 campers and took the family's tents along with a Toyota Corolla and Camry to search for evidence.
"We're working from the inside out," he said.
Newnum said the search at the campgrounds will continue for the next few days.
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=83716
D'Evelyn said the Federal Bureau of Investigation is helping out, and at least one of the adults with Syler took a polygraph test, which is normal in a missing child investigation.
D'Evelyn said deputies went through interviews with about 25 campers and took the family's tents along with a Toyota Corolla and Camry to search for evidence.
"We're working from the inside out," he said.
Newnum said the search at the campgrounds will continue for the next few days.
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=83716
Soulmagent
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Was there also unmentioned adults who maybe where with them but not in their tents?
Like a group of people and not just a family camping trip? I have not been on a single family camping trip ever it was always 2 or three groups. I havent seen any other campers speak out about seeing Sylar playing and being shocked.
In first reports there was no 14 yr old friend mentioned. Just her two kids. Then there was an extra kid. So when they said "went camping with" they just meant who rode in their car. The 14 yr old is at first with his family and then splits from them ending up with Tina's son in their tent.
Just speculating based on my feelings why the heck two single woman would want to go campping alone with 4 children. And one still in diapers without a playpen. So I was wondering if it was a group event and not a family event.
Also when Tina walks away trying to get into the locked SUV on the news video ,I thought she says '' Stop being mean my son is missing'' Or something to the effect did anybody else hear this or am I nuts?
Like a group of people and not just a family camping trip? I have not been on a single family camping trip ever it was always 2 or three groups. I havent seen any other campers speak out about seeing Sylar playing and being shocked.
In first reports there was no 14 yr old friend mentioned. Just her two kids. Then there was an extra kid. So when they said "went camping with" they just meant who rode in their car. The 14 yr old is at first with his family and then splits from them ending up with Tina's son in their tent.
Just speculating based on my feelings why the heck two single woman would want to go campping alone with 4 children. And one still in diapers without a playpen. So I was wondering if it was a group event and not a family event.
Also when Tina walks away trying to get into the locked SUV on the news video ,I thought she says '' Stop being mean my son is missing'' Or something to the effect did anybody else hear this or am I nuts?
newone
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I must have not seen that video -- do you have a link?
Years ago, yes me and a gal pal took our kids camping (hubbies were too busy) -- so I can relate to two women taking kids camping just as low cost outing before school starts.
pufnstuf
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About camping. I have a lot of experience with it, as I tent camp in federal and state campgrounds every summer. And I've camped with friends with small children before.
Whether or not a two-year-old can open a tent zipper depends completely on the child. I've seen a two-year-old boy navigate his way in and out of a tent better than many adults can. This child had to be watched very closely, because it was nothing for him to disappear and be found five or six campsites away, raiding someone's food stash. After three or four of these experiences, it became obvious to me that the mother would not watch him as closely as he needed to be watched, so I took it upon myself to do so. That was the last time I camped with that family: watching the child wore me out.
My own experience. I've camped in numerous states, in mosquitoey areas, during thunderstorms, in cool weather and in hot and humid weather. I love to camp, so I won't begrudge anyone who has the same affinity for the outdoors that I have. People who love to camp and do so safely are a special breed. As long as preparations are made for what might befall the camper, all's good.
To me, all of the above are non-issues, because I don't believe a word of Christina's story. I think that one of three things happened to Sylar. Considering that Christina's criminal history shows a woman with a penchant for illegal prescription meds; a woman with a flared temper to the point of physically fighting; a woman who has made a false report to police in the past; a woman who's irresponsible with children, to the point of not even putting them in restraints while in a vehicle; a woman who's irresponsible toward her family and other drivers by not maintaining insurance and registration on her vehicle; and a woman whose camping partner (her mom) has previously been convicted of endangering the life and health of a minor and of multiple drug and marijuana charges.... Well... here are my three possible scenarios:
1) Christina and mother take pills or smoke some bowls, get messed up, pass out in the tent, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. Something happens to Sylar, and when they wake and find the injured/deceased child, they either dispose of his body or have someone else do the dirty work, and then cover it up by feigning an abduction / disappearance.
2) Christina and mom, zonked on pills or weed, accidentally harm the child, and cover it up. They have someone come to the camp, take the child and dispose of him, and then they go through the motions of raising the alarm for a missing child.
The above two make sense because, with both women having previous drug arrests, Christina would be looked at closely by CPS (I have little doubt that she's already had a case or two with CPS) and might lose her two natural children. She didn't want to take that chance by reporting an accident or neglect, so, instead, they came up with the story that casts them as completely responsible parents with a wily child who was able to escape the tent and wander away--or possibly be kidnapped by the "Mexican."
3) Christina and mother were totally sober for the weekend. They planned to get rid of Sylar. Why? Who knows? Maybe he said that he loves his bio mom more. Maybe something happened between Sylar and one of Christina's children. Who knows. People who harm children don't need a logical excuse. Whatever they convince themselves of is all that matters to them. So, knowing that rain was expected, what better time to get rid of Sylar than on a day when rain would be very likely to wash away any evidence, scents, and so forth. What better place than in a public campground with loads of strangers, including one of those "Mexicans" that they've heard so much about in the Arizona news--cast as the villain a stereotype who's being scapegoated by everyone from the Arizona governor to Joe Arpaio for the problems facing the Southwest. Sylar was killed by the women, and disposed of by someone who had been prearranged to come retrieve the body to take it away from the camp.
Those are the only three possibilities I see as logical right now. I don't believe that Sylar was abducted by a stranger. I don't believe that a wild animal toted him off. I don't believe that he wandered away from the campsite (even though it's possible).
Either an accident happened, the women were negligent, or they carried out a planned murder. I don't think that Sylar is alive. Sad to say.
MOTIVE:
Don't know why this lept out at me, but I think it may be state benefits. I would bet that Christina's two older children receive food stamps and TANF. Possibly even SS. Maybe in her stupidity, Christina didn't mind taking on another kid, because she thought it would bring in even more benefits. But, without a proper adoption, she may have been unable to receive those benefits for the child, so he became worthless to her.
Or maybe this was cooked up between her and the biological mom, over paternal issues with the father not wanting to allow the adoption.
Anyway... just tossing some thoughts out. As always, pure speculation, hypotheses, and just the way I see it.
Whether or not a two-year-old can open a tent zipper depends completely on the child. I've seen a two-year-old boy navigate his way in and out of a tent better than many adults can. This child had to be watched very closely, because it was nothing for him to disappear and be found five or six campsites away, raiding someone's food stash. After three or four of these experiences, it became obvious to me that the mother would not watch him as closely as he needed to be watched, so I took it upon myself to do so. That was the last time I camped with that family: watching the child wore me out.
My own experience. I've camped in numerous states, in mosquitoey areas, during thunderstorms, in cool weather and in hot and humid weather. I love to camp, so I won't begrudge anyone who has the same affinity for the outdoors that I have. People who love to camp and do so safely are a special breed. As long as preparations are made for what might befall the camper, all's good.
To me, all of the above are non-issues, because I don't believe a word of Christina's story. I think that one of three things happened to Sylar. Considering that Christina's criminal history shows a woman with a penchant for illegal prescription meds; a woman with a flared temper to the point of physically fighting; a woman who has made a false report to police in the past; a woman who's irresponsible with children, to the point of not even putting them in restraints while in a vehicle; a woman who's irresponsible toward her family and other drivers by not maintaining insurance and registration on her vehicle; and a woman whose camping partner (her mom) has previously been convicted of endangering the life and health of a minor and of multiple drug and marijuana charges.... Well... here are my three possible scenarios:
1) Christina and mother take pills or smoke some bowls, get messed up, pass out in the tent, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. Something happens to Sylar, and when they wake and find the injured/deceased child, they either dispose of his body or have someone else do the dirty work, and then cover it up by feigning an abduction / disappearance.
2) Christina and mom, zonked on pills or weed, accidentally harm the child, and cover it up. They have someone come to the camp, take the child and dispose of him, and then they go through the motions of raising the alarm for a missing child.
The above two make sense because, with both women having previous drug arrests, Christina would be looked at closely by CPS (I have little doubt that she's already had a case or two with CPS) and might lose her two natural children. She didn't want to take that chance by reporting an accident or neglect, so, instead, they came up with the story that casts them as completely responsible parents with a wily child who was able to escape the tent and wander away--or possibly be kidnapped by the "Mexican."
3) Christina and mother were totally sober for the weekend. They planned to get rid of Sylar. Why? Who knows? Maybe he said that he loves his bio mom more. Maybe something happened between Sylar and one of Christina's children. Who knows. People who harm children don't need a logical excuse. Whatever they convince themselves of is all that matters to them. So, knowing that rain was expected, what better time to get rid of Sylar than on a day when rain would be very likely to wash away any evidence, scents, and so forth. What better place than in a public campground with loads of strangers, including one of those "Mexicans" that they've heard so much about in the Arizona news--cast as the villain a stereotype who's being scapegoated by everyone from the Arizona governor to Joe Arpaio for the problems facing the Southwest. Sylar was killed by the women, and disposed of by someone who had been prearranged to come retrieve the body to take it away from the camp.
Those are the only three possibilities I see as logical right now. I don't believe that Sylar was abducted by a stranger. I don't believe that a wild animal toted him off. I don't believe that he wandered away from the campsite (even though it's possible).
Either an accident happened, the women were negligent, or they carried out a planned murder. I don't think that Sylar is alive. Sad to say.
MOTIVE:
Don't know why this lept out at me, but I think it may be state benefits. I would bet that Christina's two older children receive food stamps and TANF. Possibly even SS. Maybe in her stupidity, Christina didn't mind taking on another kid, because she thought it would bring in even more benefits. But, without a proper adoption, she may have been unable to receive those benefits for the child, so he became worthless to her.
Or maybe this was cooked up between her and the biological mom, over paternal issues with the father not wanting to allow the adoption.
Anyway... just tossing some thoughts out. As always, pure speculation, hypotheses, and just the way I see it.
newone
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About camping. I have a lot of experience with it, as I tent camp in federal and state campgrounds every summer. And I've camped with friends with small children before.
Whether or not a two-year-old can open a tent zipper depends completely on the child. I've seen a two-year-old boy navigate his way in and out of a tent better than many adults can. This child had to be watched very closely, because it was nothing for him to disappear and be found five or six campsites away, raiding someone's food stash. After three or four of these experiences, it became obvious to me that the mother would not watch him as closely as he needed to be watched, so I took it upon myself to do so. That was the last time I camped with that family: watching the child wore me out.
My own experience. I've camped in numerous states, in mosquitoey areas, during thunderstorms, in cool weather and in hot and humid weather. I love to camp, so I won't begrudge anyone who has the same affinity for the outdoors that I have. People who love to camp and do so safely are a special breed. As long as preparations are made for what might befall the camper, all's good.
To me, all of the above are non-issues, because I don't believe a word of Christina's story. I think that one of three things happened to Sylar. Considering that Christina's criminal history shows a woman with a penchant for illegal prescription meds; a woman with a flared temper to the point of physically fighting; a woman who has made a false report to police in the past; a woman who's irresponsible with children, to the point of not even putting them in restraints while in a vehicle; a woman who's irresponsible toward her family and other drivers by not maintaining insurance and registration on her vehicle; and a woman whose camping partner (her mom) has previously been convicted of endangering the life and health of a minor and of multiple drug and marijuana charges.... Well... here are my three possible scenarios:
1) Christina and mother take pills or smoke some bowls, get messed up, pass out in the tent, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. Something happens to Sylar, and when they wake and find the injured/deceased child, they either dispose of his body or have someone else do the dirty work, and then cover it up by feigning an abduction / disappearance.
2) Christina and mom, zonked on pills or weed, accidentally harm the child, and cover it up. They have someone come to the camp, take the child and dispose of him, and then they go through the motions of raising the alarm for a missing child.
The above two make sense because, with both women having previous drug arrests, Christina would be looked at closely by CPS (I have little doubt that she's already had a case or two with CPS) and might lose her two natural children. She didn't want to take that chance by reporting an accident or neglect, so, instead, they came up with the story that casts them as completely responsible parents with a wily child who was able to escape the tent and wander away--or possibly be kidnapped by the "Mexican."
3) Christina and mother were totally sober for the weekend. They planned to get rid of Sylar. Why? Who knows? Maybe he said that he loves his bio mom more. Maybe something happened between Sylar and one of Christina's children. Who knows. People who harm children don't need a logical excuse. Whatever they convince themselves of is all that matters to them. So, knowing that rain was expected, what better time to get rid of Sylar than on a day when rain would be very likely to wash away any evidence, scents, and so forth. What better place than in a public campground with loads of strangers, including one of those "Mexicans" that they've heard so much about in the Arizona news--cast as the villain a stereotype who's being scapegoated by everyone from the Arizona governor to Joe Arpaio for the problems facing the Southwest. Skylar was killed by the women, and disposed of by someone who had been prearranged to come retrieve the body to take it away from the camp.
Those are the only three possibilities I see as logical right now. I don't believe that Sylar was abducted by a stranger. I don't believe that a wild animal toted him off. I don't believe that he wandered away from the campsite (even though it's possible).
Either an accident happened, the women were negligent, or they carried out a planned murder. I don't think that Kylar is alive. Sad to say.
MOTIVE:
Don't know why this lept out at me, but I think it may be state benefits. I would bet that Christina's two older children receive food stamps and TANF. Possibly even SS. Maybe in her stupidity, Christina didn't mind taking on another kid, because she thought it would bring in even more benefits. But, without a proper adoption, she may have been unable to receive those benefits for the child, so he became worthless to her.
Or maybe this was cooked up between her and the biological mom, over paternal issues with the father not wanting to allow the adoption.
Anyway... just tossing some thoughts out.
You raise a lot of good points especially the one about being outwitted by two year olds (I always felt I was on losing end on that game of wits LOL) - yes ... I think that you have outlined some valid possibilities given the track records. I was wondering about the generous state benefits too.
mysticrose
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SNIPPED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
At roughly 84 hours in this search, they have search a circumference around the campsite of 5 miles. D'Evelyn stated that "the people out there doing this search, want to be out there. They have been working basically 24 hours a day trying to find Syler. He suspects the search will continue the rest of today, into tonight, and more then likely continue tomorrow."
http://www.examiner.com/x-39281-Pho...-the-search-and-still-no-sign-of-Syler-Newton
At roughly 84 hours in this search, they have search a circumference around the campsite of 5 miles. D'Evelyn stated that "the people out there doing this search, want to be out there. They have been working basically 24 hours a day trying to find Syler. He suspects the search will continue the rest of today, into tonight, and more then likely continue tomorrow."
http://www.examiner.com/x-39281-Pho...-the-search-and-still-no-sign-of-Syler-Newton
SCSleuther
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<snipped>
To me, all of the above are non-issues, because I don't believe a word of Christina's story. I think that one of three things happened to Sylar. Considering that Christina's criminal history shows a woman with a penchant for illegal prescription meds; a woman with a flared temper to the point of physically fighting; a woman who has made a false report to police in the past; a woman who's irresponsible with children, to the point of not even putting them in restraints while in a vehicle; a woman who's irresponsible toward her family and other drivers by not maintaining insurance and registration on her vehicle; and a woman whose camping partner (her mom) has previously been convicted of endangering the life and health of a minor and of multiple drug and marijuana charges.... Well... here are my three possible scenarios:
1) Christina and mother take pills or smoke some bowls, get messed up, pass out in the tent, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. Something happens to Sylar, and when they wake and find the injured/deceased child, they either dispose of his body or have someone else do the dirty work, and then cover it up by feigning an abduction / disappearance.
2) Christina and mom, zonked on pills or weed, accidentally harm the child, and cover it up. They have someone come to the camp, take the child and dispose of him, and then they go through the motions of raising the alarm for a missing child.
The above two make sense because, with both women having previous drug arrests, Christina would be looked at closely by CPS (I have little doubt that she's already had a case or two with CPS) and might lose her two natural children. She didn't want to take that chance by reporting an accident or neglect, so, instead, they came up with the story that casts them as completely responsible parents with a wily child who was able to escape the tent and wander away--or possibly be kidnapped by the "Mexican."
3) Christina and mother were totally sober for the weekend. They planned to get rid of Sylar. Why? Who knows? Maybe he said that he loves his bio mom more. Maybe something happened between Sylar and one of Christina's children. Who knows. People who harm children don't need a logical excuse. Whatever they convince themselves of is all that matters to them. So, knowing that rain was expected, what better time to get rid of Sylar than on a day when rain would be very likely to wash away any evidence, scents, and so forth. What better place than in a public campground with loads of strangers, including one of those "Mexicans" that they've heard so much about in the Arizona news--cast as the villain a stereotype who's being scapegoated by everyone from the Arizona governor to Joe Arpaio for the problems facing the Southwest. Sylar was killed by the women, and disposed of by someone who had been prearranged to come retrieve the body to take it away from the camp.
Those are the only three possibilities I see as logical right now. I don't believe that Sylar was abducted by a stranger. I don't believe that a wild animal toted him off. I don't believe that he wandered away from the campsite (even though it's possible).
Either an accident happened, the women were negligent, or they carried out a planned murder. I don't think that Sylar is alive. Sad to say.
MOTIVE:
Don't know why this lept out at me, but I think it may be state benefits. I would bet that Christina's two older children receive food stamps and TANF. Possibly even SS. Maybe in her stupidity, Christina didn't mind taking on another kid, because she thought it would bring in even more benefits. But, without a proper adoption, she may have been unable to receive those benefits for the child, so he became worthless to her.
Or maybe this was cooked up between her and the biological mom, over paternal issues with the father not wanting to allow the adoption.
Anyway... just tossing some thoughts out. As always, pure speculation, hypotheses, and just the way I see it.
Excellent post, Puff. I'd like to run with this, but in combination. Totally IMO...
So far, no type of altercation has been identified, no body found in water, no one recalls any screaming, fighting, crying, no blood trail from Sylar being drug away by an animal.... has me thinking Sylar "left" the campsite...alive.
"Lies" usually have little pieces of truth in them. So...perhaps there WAS a "Mexican" man at the site. Could have been a drug dealer, and this was part of his "turf". And perhaps Christina and grandmom were jonseing for some drugs, but low on cash. "Mex-man" hooked them up... and being they had no cash/low on cash, they either agreed to a "barter" exchange... drugs... for poor little Sylar. (Or, if they didn't agree to that, maybe they tried to "con" the drug dealer - "give us a couple hits, we'll pay ya back tomorrow morning" - and he came back and took the kid as collateral - sorry, I'm not a criminal, so can't put my mind around how the "ending" of the story goes...)
momtective
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I'm still thinking he could have possibly fallen into an abandoned well or septic tank...remember Luis Martinez, there's a thread here somewhere on him, he fell into an improperly covered septic tank.
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