Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[concentric]

Brilliant point about checking the pool last. This story is nothing less than offensive. It is simply a garbled mish mash of the random events and people involved in this case. It is a verbal Rube-Goldberg contraption and flimsy as could be. The fact that he threw Kronk in there is just unforgivable. How many people will now refuse to search for a missing child or make that crucial phone call because of what the DT is doing to this innocent man??

JMO Yes. I've always thought this plot by JB is disjointed and cobbled together by very flimsy, seemingly non-existant strands.

And to make George and especially, Kronk, villains...

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Also, another question to ponder. Wouldn't the DT's "theory" make more sense if GA wasn't there? I could see it happening (for the sake of argument) when ICA was there alone - then she panics to hide the tragedy from CA and GA...but if GA was there, and CA was going to find out anyway...why hide the body? What would the point be of NOT calling 9-11??

 

[concentric]

cuppy199 - that, was everything (and a bag of chips) that we want to hear from a "psychological expert." Thank you so much.

 

[concentric]

How many sociopaths get pronounced legally insane?

 

[cuppy199]

cuppy199 - that, was everything (and a bag of chips) that we want to hear from a "psychological expert." Thank you so much.

Im not a expert just have one in the family. You learn alot from first hand experince

 

[CarmelEyesD]

My guess is that Casey got involved on the internet and lost track of Caylee. When she remembered her, it was too late-she had drowned. She panicked, backed her car into the garage, and put her in the trunk. She may have tried to bury her first, but found it was too difficult and time consuming to dig a hole-she was scared and didn't want anyone coming out and seeing her. (I dig out my own gardens with a shovel-I know how hard it can be. And in Florida, you have a high water table-she more than likely hit water 4-6 inches down. I used to live just north of Orlando, and my son hit water every time he tried to dig a hole.) He used to dig a lot of holes, to 'make the water come up'.

After she placed her in the trunk she drove around, not knowing what to do and trying to figure it out, until the body began to smell. The duct tape was probably to keep fluids from running out of the baby's mouth. Especially if she swallowed a lot of water when she drowned.

I doubt if George was there. If I found my grandchild in the pool, I would probably hold her and stand there in shock (at first)-not climb right out. As soon as I recovered from the shock, I would be doing CPR right away and yelling for someone to call for an ambulance. Hopefully, I would be doing that immediately. I believe George would have called for an ambulance, and if it was too late, known it was an accident. The punishment for 'neglect' is far less than the punishment for murder. And most non-guilty people-if it was really an accident-are not afraid to call police. A guilty person, who knows that it is 'their' fault. for getting involved in something that took their attention off the child-would not want to call police.

LE wasn't called, because Casey was scared, and would have had to admit she was on the computer and had forgotten to watch her. And she would be scared, terrified to admit to Cindy that Caylee was dead, because she wasn't watching her. Cindy probably would have killed her.

Although having been none too fond of Cindy in the past, my heart totally went out to her today. I wanted to be able to hug her when she left the stand. As a grandmother-no matter what mistakes I may have made raising my daughters-I cannot imagine or even think I would have been able to do what Cindy did today. That has to be the hardest thing anyone could do. My opinion and my respect for Cindy went up today. While it may have been-and probably was-done to stop the bus coming at them, I felt her testimony was honest, heartbreaking, and difficult.

 

[jon_burrows]

If I were part of the prosecution, I would study the pool ladder. It's height, weight and how likely a toddler could move it at all, let alone move it horizontally or pick it up fro the ground, raise it and then attach it to the pool. Chances are you have to hook or latch it to the platform.
This one factor would destroy his theory in my view.

Cindy said it was heavy but she was able to lift it without a problem. Caylee could not. Even if was light as a feather, a toddler could not maneuver something that big and be able to latch it onto the side of the pool.

As for an earlier post about George being able to scoop her up from the side. She would have had to have been floating AND near the edge of the pool, not likely.

As other posters stated, her body would have been at the bottom of the pool. George and Casey are tall enough to hop up to the side of the pool and then get in, which is what any adult would do in a panicked, emergency situation.

We had an an above ground pool when I was a child/teenager and we hopped over the side with ease when we threw balls and toys outside of the pool. It was faster than running all the way around to the deck of the pool to get back in. Our pool sounded like it was the same height as the Anthony's pool due to Cindy's description yesterday.

Also, assuming Caylee was at the bottom of the pool, he would have had to have gotten in the pool, ran over to her body, then gone underwater to scoop her out (unless he tried to scoop her up with his foot which would have taken longer). Then gotten out of the pool with Caylee before ICA got to the back yard.

ICA exercised/jogged and I suspect was probably pretty fast. There wasn't enough time for GA to do all this and be outside the pool holding a dead Caylee while Casey was running from one side while he was running from the other side of the house. More importantly, Cindy also said one gate was blocked/locked and unusable because a shed was there.


IMO

 

[cuppy199]

How many sociopaths get pronounced legally insane?

From all the research I have done and the way Im to understand it they know right from wrong so they wouldn't be considered legally insane if they committed a crime :waitasec:

 

[concentric]

If "accidental" then she would get manslaughter? Or would it be manslaughter with other charges added in?

 

[CarmelEyesD]

Was the day Casey borrowed the shovel the same a day? Or different one-I can't remember.

I was intrigued by the statement from CA that they couldn't get grass to grow in a certain area. It always had before, hadn't it?

It is very conceivable Casey hid little Caylee on the property until she could come up with a better plan.

When did she back her car into the garage? Was it the same day she borrowed the shovel?

 

[darnudes]

Cindy said it was heavy but she was able to lift it without a problem. Caylee could not. Even if was light as a feather, a toddler could not maneuver something that big and be able to latch it onto the side of the pool.

As for an earlier post about George being able to scoop her up from the side. She would have had to have been floating AND near the edge of the pool, not likely.

As other posters stated, her body would have been at the bottom of the pool. George is tall enough to hop up to the side of the pool and then get in, which is what any adult would do in a panicked, emergency situation.

We had an an above ground pool when I was a child/teenager and we hopped over the side with ease when we threw balls and toys outside of the pool. It was faster than running all the way around to the deck of the pool to get back in. Our pool sounded like it was the same height as the Anthony's pool due to Cindy's description yesterday.

Also, assuming Caylee was at the bottom of the pool, he would have had to have gotten in the pool, ran over to her body, then gone underwater to scoop her out (unless he tried to scoop her up with his foot which would have taken longer). Then gotten out of the pool with Caylee before ICA got to the back yard.

ICA exercised/jogged and I suspect was probably pretty fast. There wasn't enough time for GA to do all this and be outside the pool holding a dead Caylee while Casey was running from one side while he was running from the other side of the house. More importantly, Cindy also said one gate was blocked/locked and unusable because a shed was there. They both did not run from the front yard to the back using both gates.


IMO

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. No matter what the circumstances there is no way that an accidental drowning happened the way Baez said it did. Now, I'm presuming he got the story from Casey and I'm also presuming that Baez is so lazy and so incompetent that he never stepped or paced out this scenario to see if it was plausible. Because I know those jurors are going to look at this and ask themselves could it happen like that?

The answer is going to be a resounding NO.

It took Baez 1.40mins to lay out this alleged drowning.

It took LDB over 30 mins to show that it is not possible, LDB did the research, took the time and laid out each fact because she is NOT going to let Casey Anthony get away with the murder and then the selling of a little 2 year old girl.

p.s. Baez should be really careful of his questioning of witnesses and any profits they have made from selling pictures of Caylee - as far as I can see Baez has opened the door on Casey Anthony selling Caylee to the ABC for the 200 grand she was paid.

The jury get one sniff of that and ICA is toast.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

My guess is that Casey got involved on the internet and lost track of Caylee. When she remembered her, it was too late-she had drowned. She panicked, backed her car into the garage, and put her in the trunk. She may have tried to bury her first, but found it was too difficult and time consuming to dig a hole-she was scared and didn't want anyone coming out and seeing her. (I dig out my own gardens with a shovel-I know how hard it can be. And in Florida, you have a high water table-she more than likely hit water 4-6 inches down. I used to live just north of Orlando, and my son hit water every time he tried to dig a hole.) He used to dig a lot of holes, to 'make the water come up'.

After she placed her in the trunk she drove around, not knowing what to do and trying to figure it out, until the body began to smell. The duct tape was probably to keep fluids from running out of the baby's mouth. Especially if she swallowed a lot of water when she drowned.



I doubt if George was there. If I found my grandchild in the pool, I would probably hold her and stand there in shock (at first)-not climb right out. As soon as I recovered from the shock, I would be doing CPR right away and yelling for someone to call for an ambulance. Hopefully, I would be doing that immediately. I believe George would have called for an ambulance, and if it was too late, known it was an accident. The punishment for 'neglect' is far less than the punishment for murder. And most non-guilty people-if it was really an accident-are not afraid to call police. A guilty person, who knows that it is 'their' fault. for getting involved in something that took their attention off the child-would not want to call police.

LE wasn't called, because Casey was scared, and would have had to admit she was on the computer and had forgotten to watch her. And she would be scared, terrified to admit to Cindy that Caylee was dead, because she wasn't watching her. Cindy probably would have killed her.

Although having been none too fond of Cindy in the past, my heart totally went out to her today. I wanted to be able to hug her when she left the stand. As a grandmother-no matter what mistakes I may have made raising my daughters-I cannot imagine or even think I would have been able to do what Cindy did today. That has to be the hardest thing anyone could do. My opinion and my respect for Cindy went up today. While it may have been-and probably was-done to stop the bus coming at them, I felt her testimony was honest, heartbreaking, and difficult.

But if GA was there, as they are saying...what would be the point of him joining in hiding the body...or giving it to Kronk? CA would find out as far as I can tell. I almost kick myself for trying to follow JB logic.

 

[jon_burrows]

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. No matter what the circumstances there is no way that an accidental drowning happened the way Baez said it did. Now, I'm presuming he got the story from Casey and I'm also presuming that Baez is so lazy and so incompetent that he never stepped or paced out this scenario to see if it was plausible. Because I know those jurors are going to look at this and ask themselves could it happen like that?

The answer is going to be a resounding NO.

It took Baez 1.40mins to lay out this alleged drowning.

It took LDB over 30 mins to show that it is not possible, LDB did the research, took the time and laid out each fact because she is NOT going to let Casey Anthony get away with the murder and then the selling of a little 2 year old girl.

p.s. Baez should be really careful of his questioning of witnesses and any profits they have made from selling pictures of Caylee - as far as I can see Baez has opened the door on Casey Anthony selling Caylee to the ABC for the 200 grand she was paid.

The jury get one sniff of that and ICA is toast.

Plus, I've heard but can't confirm that ICA is in trouble with the IRS to the tune of about 68k for not paying taxes on that 200k.

IMO

 

[concentric]

Unless JB is so brilliant, he is meta-thinking?

 

[jon_burrows]

But if GA was there, as they are saying...what would be the point of him joining in hiding the body...or giving it to Kronk? CA would find out as far as I can tell. I almost kick myself for trying to follow JB logic.

And neither one of them attempted to revive her or call 911. ICA and GA are not medical professionals. If what JB said in opening statements is correct (obviously it isn't) they sealed Caylee's fate by not calling 911. In other words, they made sure Caylee was dead by not calling 911. We all know ICA isn't afraid to use 911, she did it for herself when the protestors were outside.

IMO

 

[tiredblondy]

Originally Posted by ThinkTank [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6575527#post6575527"]

[/ame]
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../24/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE
Casey Anthony Defense Claims Accidental Death
Aired May 24, 2011 - 20:00:00 ET
excerpts:

(clip)
"MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR THE ANTHONY FAMILY: Nancy, this whole theory started, as far as we`re concerned, probably back in February where they started creating this, when the psych evals came out. And from there we`ve known approximately about six weeks ago that the defense was going to go down this road. And that came directly from Jose`s mouth where we found out about six weeks ago

how Caylee, according to them, passed."

"At this point, even that`s suspect. Don`t know from what Jose was saying today if we can believe anything that comes out of his mouth."

"Certainly, everything he said about George was a complete and utter lie....."
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


One question-if Caylee drowned why did she have duct tape on her mouth?

I think George and Cindy might realize it was not a drowning because I know their lawyer might think that also.(see red part above) I suspect she was perfectly capable of killing them and had a plan to do it- maybe they realize that now.
My opinion only.

 

[otto]

According to the Anthony's attorney, that's exactly when they learned of the defense team's strategy.

Thanks! I guess they needed the lies to be about them before they were willing to believe that she really had no explanation other than lies.

I have to say that I am very impressed with the testimony from George and Cindy. They are in an incredibly difficult position, and they are being clear and to the point about what happened.

What I can't figure out is why Baez thought it was a good thing to accuse the parents - thereby turning the parents on his client. I think they would have gone to the ends of the earth to avoid stating the facts straight up if they implicated Casey, but after George became the fall guy they were left with no choice.

 

[kaRN]

I believe if I were in that situation, someone would find me holding the child, completely passed out...from screaming my lungs out! In that tight nit community, there is just no way possible. If Casey cried, and cried, and cried...someone heard her and seen this going on.

Prior to Casey's crying there would have been Caylees screams and sounds of her thrashing in the water. I was a bit disappointed they didn't ask BB about noises he may have heard or did they and I missed it?

 

[otto]

JMO Yes. I've always thought this plot by JB is disjointed and cobbled together by very flimsy, seemingly non-existant strands.

And to make George and especially, Kronk, villains...

It strikes me as dangerously close to "perpetrating a fraud upon the court" simply because it is completely illogical and cannot be supported by any facts. When Baez can't even be sure about the time of day, it comes across as fiction he is writing as he speaks.

 

[concentric]

That's what I'm worried about, that JB himself is doing so much stupid stuff because he wants to cause a mistrial? Can he make himself appear to be so incompetent of defending the accused, that there is a mistrial?

Can that happen?