GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

[SouthAussie]

Makes you wonder, doesn’t it? If they had managed to get out of the country, Indonesia would not have been able to extradite them back as they have no extradition treaty with the US.

And would the US have been able to get all the evidence they required from Indonesia to be able to successfully prosecute the crime in the US?

It could have turned into a real messy affair, with HM and TS running loose on bail, or running free as they were unable to be charged yet. Perhaps giving them plenty of time to disappear somewhere obscure.

And we can't even be sure that they planned to return to the US right away. Maybe a long stop/stay in Hong Kong (China) was in the plan .. until they could see what happened when Sheila was discovered ... wherever they left her.

Good thing that the Indonesians were onto them quickly.

.

 

[FigTree]

Enjoying the conversation - lots of great discussion

I did wonder what the outcome was about who paid the bill at the Hotel.
I wonder if Sheila got her way and did refuse to pay? If that be the case, it may have added more weight to a motive. (I'm still not buying the slur excuse )
I wonder if the room TS was staying in, was in his name, and wonder if it it was also part of the reason that the Hotel management wouldn't let them leave without fixing up the bill?
Possibly Sheila also had said to the front des that she is not paying the bill for the other room.

 

[Quester]

I think SWM likely was browbeaten into securing TS' room and that may have been why SWM was captured on CCTV at ~3:45am in the lobby.

I think HM & TS believed with SWM's CC securing the room then they could easily tell lobby staff that SWM would pay for both rooms when she checked out, giving them time to dispose of the suitcase and then be long gone.

If above all true, fortunately either St R policy or staff wouldn't just charge it all to SWM w/o SWM's authorization.

Presuming premeditation, I'd sure like to hear their entire plan as to how they thought they were going to dispose of the suitcase and get away with this heinous crime.

In any case, so glad they were thwarted at every turn!

 

[ajaylee]

I'm curious about HM's finances, in part because it has a lot to do with whatever plans she and TS had. SWM somehow paid for TS's plane ticket, and she clearly wasn't happy about it. HM had been living in a hotel for a while before Bali. We can be pretty certain, I think, that it wasn't a Motel 6, so one wonders how she was paying for it. Cash? Maybe at checkout, but here's the thing: it's virtually impossible to check into any decent hotel without a credit card. Did HM have her own credit card and steal her mother's for big ticket items? Or did she secure the hotel with her mother's card? That should mean no charges actually go through until checkout.

I think HM definitely had some plan to take control of the $500K that she felt was rightfully hers and hers alone in Bali. I suspect it never occurred to her that her that much of the $500K might have already been spent (paying off the mortgages on the house, for example).

Early reports were very specific: two broken glass items, blood and fingerprints on them, were found in the room, assumed to be the weapons. I wonder what the autopsies have revealed as far as the nature of the weapons. Those items (vase, ashtray) made sense to me: I could see HM grabbing one and hitting SWM in a fit of anger. There were also reports that the room was a mess: I thought that could have been (not necessarily) a pathetic effort by HM and TS to make it look like it had been ransacked by the alleged bandits. Frankly, I think if TS was actually carrying something like they described to the room, it could just as easily have been to try to break into the room safe as to kill SWM.

If they intended to take the original flight home, then perhaps they thought they'd shift to another hotel for a couple days, find a place to stash her mother, and leave on the originally booked flights. Changing those flights could be prohibitively expensive and I'm not certain they could do it anyway. I'm still surprised that they were allowed to check into another hotel with no passports and SWM's credit card.

If I understand it correctly, once charges are brought, both will be moved to Kerobokan and they will be able to see each other there, although she can certainly avoid a meeting by not going to the common visiting area. That will be quite a reunion: "Hi baby-daddy, did you hear, I'm throwing you under the bus".

I recall the first images of HM, acting like she thought she was Paris Hilton, smoking and teasing with the media, gonna get her 'legal team' on the job and be out in a jiffy. Fast forward nearly a month later, the image of her crying once her legal team did arrive. I wonder if it ever occurred to her or if they told her ahead of time that they wouldn't be springing her on bail once they got there? I don't know anything about the Bali legal system, but in the US, even if she convinced judges that she was an innocent terrified bystander, there's just no way she's going to get off scot-free.

I wonder if she'll dig deep and come up with a few tears in a show of grief for her mother once she gets to court?

 

[east2west]

Yes it was reported that they placed two smaller suitcases in the backseat of the taxi as well as the larger one containing the victim into the trunk of the taxi.
If only they had been able to retrieve thier passports, would they have really have been headed to the airport?? I've only seen it reported that the taxi was hailed but nothing about if the dynamic duo requested a journey to DPS airport. Let's say they were headed to the airport, would they attempt to check the leaking larger suitcase in, as well as pay the overweight fee. ? ?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-bali-suitcase-death-20140813-story.html

ETA: items weighing over 100 lbs would need to be shipped as cargo ( Airfreight).

 

[ajaylee]

I don't think they were headed to the airport. I think they wanted to get rid of the body somewhere else. I'm guessing they thought they'd go to another hotel and leave the body bag behind when they went to the airport a couple days later. I think they thought they'd be long gone before SWM's body was discovered.

I think they ended up at the airport because they didn't fully understand the passport problem. I don't know if they thought they could get temporary replacements at the airport or some kind of waiver (like getting past TSA to come home if your ID has been stolen while you're on holiday). If I understood it correctly, HM called the attorney because neither she nor TS really understood how to go about getting new passports.

 

[Quester]

Further thought ... note: pure speculation follows:

??? If SWM had been just peachy with securing TS' room for Mon, Tues and Wed nights, I wonder if the plan had been to assault SWM in the early morning hours of Thursday [scheduled check-out date and probable return flight date to USA] rather than Tuesday??? But, since SWM may have put her foot down, ultimately and possibly reluctantly agreeing to secure TS' room for one night only, and TS & HM couldn't/wouldn't foot the bill for the additional two nights, TS & HM may have bumped their assault plans up to the early morning hours of Tues???

???? If the assault had happened on Thurs as I am speculating they may have planned, TS & HM may have planned to just "forget"/leave behind The Suitcase they placed in the taxi trunk while taking the two suitcases they supposedly placed in the back seat, when they were dropped off at the airport. With planned passports in hand, they could have jumped on any flight [their passports/visas would allow them to go] and then disappear for a while to see what kind of search there was for them? And when alerted to SWM's missing/dead status, possibly saying SWM sent them off on a pre-wedding celebration [and hence the "may not come backkkk" and China references posted in planned anticipation] given their pregnant status and feigning shock at what happened to SWM after their departure from Bali ????

[ETA: Also, the above along with "the armed gang" story might have placed suspicion on that unfortunate taxi driver.]

Again, the above is all pure speculation.

Do US citizens need a visa to visit Hong Kong? TIA

 

[east2west]

I don't think they were headed to the airport. I think they wanted to get rid of the body somewhere else. I'm guessing they thought they'd go to another hotel and leave the body bag behind when they went to the airport a couple days later. I think they thought they'd be long gone before SWM's body was discovered.

I think they ended up at the airport because they didn't fully understand the passport problem. I don't know if they thought they could get temporary replacements at the airport or some kind of waiver (like getting past TSA to come home if your ID has been stolen while you're on holiday). If I understood it correctly, HM called the attorney because neither she nor TS really understood how to go about getting new passports.

I doubt they were headed to the airport also. Just throwing it out there as a hypothetical. They weren't too bright carrying out the murder, especially with all the hotel cameras around or the attempt to cover up the crime by using laundry bags, sheets, towels, and several suitcases. I bet it did at one point though cross thier minds to head to the airport with the suitcases in tow.[emoji15]

 

[ajaylee]

I think you may be on to something - that scenario sounds very plausible. HM's 'attitude' probably moved things up a bit. I think she lost it and hit SWM much harder than she thought and the rest is history. Without the autopsy results, we still don't know how quickly she died. I hope she wasn't still alive when they broke her neck getting her to fit in the suitcase.

If that was the plan, I think they would have checked out, left a 'do not disturb' sign on SWM's door and headed for the airport. They might have gone so far as to tell the desk staff that SWM was sick/hungover, needed to sleep in, please make doubly sure not to disturb her. I can't believe they would have planned ahead of time to try to fit her in a suitcase. They'd be safely out-of-reach before her body was found. Perhaps they'd make up some story about SWM telling them she'd been threatened and was fearful.

They would not need a visa to visit Hong Kong.

 

[Kamille]

I'm curious about HM's finances, in part because it has a lot to do with whatever plans she and TS had. SWM somehow paid for TS's plane ticket, and she clearly wasn't happy about it. HM had been living in a hotel for a while before Bali. We can be pretty certain, I think, that it wasn't a Motel 6, so one wonders how she was paying for it. Cash? Maybe at checkout, but here's the thing: it's virtually impossible to check into any decent hotel without a credit card. Did HM have her own credit card and steal her mother's for big ticket items? Or did she secure the hotel with her mother's card? That should mean no charges actually go through until checkout.

I think HM definitely had some plan to take control of the $500K that she felt was rightfully hers and hers alone in Bali. I suspect it never occurred to her that her that much of the $500K might have already been spent (paying off the mortgages on the house, for example).

Early reports were very specific: two broken glass items, blood and fingerprints on them, were found in the room, assumed to be the weapons. I wonder what the autopsies have revealed as far as the nature of the weapons. Those items (vase, ashtray) made sense to me: I could see HM grabbing one and hitting SWM in a fit of anger. There were also reports that the room was a mess: I thought that could have been (not necessarily) a pathetic effort by HM and TS to make it look like it had been ransacked by the alleged bandits. Frankly, I think if TS was actually carrying something like they described to the room, it could just as easily have been to try to break into the room safe as to kill SWM.

If they intended to take the original flight home, then perhaps they thought they'd shift to another hotel for a couple days, find a place to stash her mother, and leave on the originally booked flights. Changing those flights could be prohibitively expensive and I'm not certain they could do it anyway. I'm still surprised that they were allowed to check into another hotel with no passports and SWM's credit card.

If I understand it correctly, once charges are brought, both will be moved to Kerobokan and they will be able to see each other there, although she can certainly avoid a meeting by not going to the common visiting area. That will be quite a reunion: "Hi baby-daddy, did you hear, I'm throwing you under the bus".

I recall the first images of HM, acting like she thought she was Paris Hilton, smoking and teasing with the media, gonna get her 'legal team' on the job and be out in a jiffy. Fast forward nearly a month later, the image of her crying once her legal team did arrive. I wonder if it ever occurred to her or if they told her ahead of time that they wouldn't be springing her on bail once they got there? I don't know anything about the Bali legal system, but in the US, even if she convinced judges that she was an innocent terrified bystander, there's just no way she's going to get off scot-free.

I wonder if she'll dig deep and come up with a few tears in a show of grief for her mother once she gets to court?

You've made some great points ajaylee.

As far as HM "living in a hotel" prior to the Bali trip, I personally think that the media, who were not really interested in the story and have been playing a bad game of telephone tag with the information, were referring to the few days that she was at the Conrad, about 2 weeks before the Bali trip. There also seems to be a question of whether SWM's credit card funded another stay for the 1up#crew to the Waldorf Astoria prior to that but we've seen no evidence of that so far. However, since it's the Conrad where TS was arrested for his disorderly conduct and it appears HM was also lead away by LE, probably as the person responsible for using someone else's credit card, that's the one that gets the focus. So I wouldn't say she was "living in a hotel" per say, but it does appear that she was trying to until the credit card company got a hold of SWM and she got a hold of LE. It does appear as though HM definitely seemed to have a plan to spend "her" money one way or another.

You're suggestion as to why the early reports suggested broken glass and two possible broken items in the room is something I myself have pondered over. There must have been broken glass in the room for this story to have emerged right away. And I like your theory. HM and SWM fighting in the room, HM throwing something at her mother and/or taking something else and actually hitting her in the face with it until it broke and SWM was choking on her own blood. I can see that. Then her panicking and texting TS to get down there and help her. Your suggestion that TS brought something to the room to try to break into the safe really intrigues me. We know that LE seems to be putting out false information to try to get TS to dispute it and therefore speak to them about his version of what happened. So far no go it seems. So either TS went to the room to confront SWM with a weapon and take care of something premeditated, or he went there to deal with a clean up of something that HM had been wanting to do since the moment she got to Bali but had to wait until he got there to help her with the aftermath, perhaps unbeknownst to him.

I think HM did have at least one of SWM's credit cards and it's very possible that she did get it from the room safe or just from the room. I don't think SWM kept everything in the security box at reception. Would make it very inconvenient for quick purchases I would think. She probably also had some cash in the room safe as well. Which HM used to pay the cab and maybe even to pay for the hotel room near the airport. (might explain why the hotel accepted that they had no passports or luggage. Pay cash for a rendezvous so to speak?) I don't think it's a given that they used a credit card for that room. I think we've assumed that. Unless there is a report in MSM that confirms it?

We also still don't know where the duct tape came from. I'm assuming SWM had it as a seasoned traveller but perhaps I am wrong. Was this something TS had brought with him and was also hiding that under his shirt along with the "metal" rod from his room? I would think it would be easy to hide a metal rod in a pocket and then up under a shirt without it being noticeable either in person or on CCTV so he must have had something more bulky than just a flat metal rod or "handle" up his shirt. Was he called after the fact to help with the clean up and told what was needed? Was there even any duct tape? Is HM completely throwing him under the bus and he's letting her?

I'm still trying to figure out when the original flight home was supposed to be. LOL But I do believe we've read that they headed directly to the airport and started asking around there how to get somewhere when they lost either both of their passports or one of them. (I'm still not sure that TS would have put his passport in SWM's security box) Not sure who they asked. It's been reported that they called the lawyer ME somewhere during all this. He told them to go to the US embassy. I can only imagine that someone at the airport would tell them the same. Not sure where they were when they called Elkin or what they told him since he's not really saying. I'm also not sure if they really did go to the airport or just right to that hotel and called Elkin and it was only him who they spoke to and he told them to go to the embassy. I do remember the video of them in that hotel and HM saying to a cop "he was supposed to take us to the embassy". What lie was she telling LE then? Who is "he"?

I also wonder if the reason why they haven't laid the charges and have asked for extensions on this is to continue to keep them apart until they can get a statement from TS because they know that once they go to Kerobokan they will be able to see and speak with each other to collaborate. And I don't think HM will be avoiding TS. They must have been going through a list of things that they would say if caught while they were at the hotel. They appear to have settled on the gang story but when that didn't fly, HM may have reverted to another story they were working on. In which TS was willing to take the blame for a provoked fight with SWM and an accidental strike with something for the sake of their unborn child. Maybe now that TS heard he can get life in a Bali prison or the firing squad for taking the blame, he's hesitant to do so. And he really doesn't know what to say at this point because he knows the evidence can catch him out in a lie as it did with the gang story. If he's really a good guy as all of the comments on him seem to indicate, maybe he just can't bring himself to tell the truth if it was HM who killed SWM to set her up for a life in prison and/or the firing squad? Which would be a shame if true because lord knows HM had no problem setting him up.

IMO, any tears she shows in court will be for herself, although she'll likely try to make it appear as though they are for her mother.

MOO

 

[Herat]

Can the Bali LE keep her without charging her until the baby is born, or not send her to Kerobokan until after she has delivered?

 

[Kamille]

I don't think they were headed to the airport. I think they wanted to get rid of the body somewhere else. I'm guessing they thought they'd go to another hotel and leave the body bag behind when they went to the airport a couple days later. I think they thought they'd be long gone before SWM's body was discovered.

I think they ended up at the airport because they didn't fully understand the passport problem. I don't know if they thought they could get temporary replacements at the airport or some kind of waiver (like getting past TSA to come home if your ID has been stolen while you're on holiday). If I understood it correctly, HM called the attorney because neither she nor TS really understood how to go about getting new passports.

Another great suggestion. They could have taken the suitcase to the other hotel and maybe they had another couple of days to either dispose of it somewhere else or leave it there before heading to the airport. Hmmm....

 

[Herat]

Was the other hotel beachfront? Slip a body out into the ocean late at night? Hope it won't be found for weeks.

 

[Kamille]

Further thought ... note: pure speculation follows:

??? If SWM had been just peachy with securing TS' room for Mon, Tues and Wed nights, I wonder if the plan had been to assault SWM in the early morning hours of Thursday [scheduled check-out date and probable return flight date to USA] rather than Tuesday??? But, since SWM may have put her foot down, ultimately and possibly reluctantly agreeing to secure TS' room for one night only, and TS & HM couldn't/wouldn't foot the bill for the additional two nights, TS & HM may have bumped their assault plans up to the early morning hours of Tues???

???? If the assault had happened on Thurs as I am speculating they may have planned, TS & HM may have planned to just "forget"/leave behind The Suitcase they placed in the taxi trunk while taking the two suitcases they supposedly placed in the back seat, when they were dropped off at the airport. With planned passports in hand, they could have jumped on any flight [their passports/visas would allow them to go] and then disappear for a while to see what kind of search there was for them? And when alerted to SWM's missing/dead status, possibly saying SWM sent them off on a pre-wedding celebration [and hence the "may not come backkkk" and China references posted in planned anticipation] given their pregnant status and feigning shock at what happened to SWM after their departure from Bali ????

[ETA: Also, the above along with "the armed gang" story might have placed suspicion on that unfortunate taxi driver.]

Again, the above is all pure speculation.

Do US citizens need a visa to visit Hong Kong? TIA

And another good theory. Might explain why TS insisted on going there even though he would have to turn around and go home in 2 days or less. It was planned for the last day when they could make their escape to the airport.

I think we're reading too much into the China comment though. The flight stops in China. Is it not possible he was at the airport or on the plane when he facebooked the message "next stop China" or something like that? Does anyone have a screen cap of that to check for the date and what exactly he said?

In order for HM to benefit from the death of her mother, she would have had to return to the US as an orphan child whose mother had suffered a horrible demise (or was missing and presumed dead) to inherit everything. Killing your mother and going on the lam in China with only a credit card that will be immediately cancelled upon word of her death is not a good plan IMO.

MOO

 

[Mountain Misst]

~snip~ I do remember the video of them in that hotel and HM saying to a cop "he was supposed to take us to the embassy". What lie was she telling LE then? Who is "he"? ~snip~

I missed that little gem. Thanks Kamille. The 'he' would be the taxi driver, IMO. My theory with this made up little story of Heather's, could be that she was going to follow up on the fantasy... SWM had been killed by the 'invisible' gang whom had invaded their room and she thought the best thing to do was to take her mother's body to the embassy because they were in a foreign country and she was frightened that her mother's body wouldn't be repatriated or some such nonsense - and claim paranoia.

BUT... as we know that all fell apart. Cameras must be very subtle in their placement at the St Regis.

 

[ajaylee]

They have already asked for one extension (soon to expire). I believe they can ask for one more, but I'm not sure they will. I believe the police spokesman said they had submitted the 'dossier', although they would continue investigating.

Kerobokan has separate quarters for prisoners who are pregnant. They will be taken to a hospital to deliver, then return to Kerobokan. They can opt to keep the baby in the prison for (depending on sources) 6 months to two years, but I believe no one keeps the baby any longer than necessary to make other arrangements. If she makes other arrangements, it's possible she'll give birth and never bring the child back to prison, meaning TS won't have a chance to see it.

It would be interesting to know HM's state of mind about this pregnancy, particularly given the circumstances. She may get a limited amount of sympathy from fellow inmates and I'm sure she'll work it for all its worth to try to get clemency from the court, but it's hard to see her wanting to try to hang on to the child in prison. Presumably her baby's attorney is currently looking into adoption or guardian options.

 

[RK77]

The St. Regis Bali Instagram has a picture of wedding decorations (nobody in the photo). Look who made a comment nearly two months ago....Tommy Exx.

http://websta.me/p/625075633871894609_273318053

Wonder what he was replying to. Since her message is not there (prob because her instagram has been deleted) we will never know.

 

[Mountain Misst]

The St. Regis Bali Instagram has a picture of wedding decorations (nobody in the photo). Look who made a comment nearly two months ago....Tommy Exx.

http://websta.me/p/625075633871894609_273318053

Wonder what he was replying to. Since her message is not there (prob because her instagram has been deleted) we will never know.

OMG well caught RK.. :cheers:

So perhaps TS thought he was flying out for his wedding and then they were going off on a honeymoon to China perhaps? Oh my - I wonder if they had told SWM their plans. That would be enough to give mom a sleepless night with her down in the foyer at 3:45am getting some air...

From the fantasy of the St Regis to Hotel K, if that's what eventuates, IMO. Have to pinch myself - am I watching a re-run of Fantasy Island?

 

[Herat]

The St. Regis Bali Instagram has a picture of wedding decorations (nobody in the photo). Look who made a comment nearly two months ago....Tommy Exx.

http://websta.me/p/625075633871894609_273318053

Wonder what he was replying to. Since her message is not there (prob because her instagram has been deleted) we will never know.

Now that is v-e-r-r-y interesting. This plot is thickening.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Yes, very very interesting. Maybe they were planning to get married in Bali and honeymoon/escape to Hong Kong?