Bobbi Kristina Brown found unresponsive in bathtub. #2

[bookboarder]

Drugs are very expensive. Not only do they pay for the uppers, but to come down, generally they need an opiate or a benzo or they'll be miserable and you can only stay "up" so long without going legitimately insane. The whole drug mentality is extremely draining on funds. Especially in a situation where there are no 'checks'. Most people have to face the music because they've got to provide for their habit in some way. In her situation I could imagine it was likely a free-for-all and that likely contributed to her falling faster and harder. Most people would face consequences far sooner than WH likely did-- unfortunately the same situation is one that BK ended up in...

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...way-multi-million-dollar-fortune-sources-say/
Published February 15, 2012

But just three weeks ago, the rumor mill started churning that Houston was broke, and now more details are starting to unravel as to how and why the iconic singer may have died with few dollar signs to her name. In January, Radar Online reported that the music maven was in financial ruins and on the verge of bankruptcy, and had even resorted to asking friends for small amounts of cash to get her through.

“Whitney’s fortune is gone. Music industry heavy hitters are supporting her and her label is fronting her cash against her next album, but no one knows when that will be released.

 

[passionflower]

does rehab cost allot? did she ever have medical insurance? would that cover it?

 

[nrdsb4]

It's possible also that WH lost money on investments, like a lot of people did, in the late 2000's. If she had bad financial advisors, or just bad luck during the downturn, she could have lost tons of money.

 

[passionflower]

I'm alittle afraid that if family needs money to take care of BK, will they do things for publicity?
WH had a 3.5 hour funeral. I remember seeing tabloid photos of her and all the hoopla.
Family would benefit ? money wise do they sell the photos?

 

[CoolJ]

It's possible also that WH lost money on investments, like a lot of people did, in the late 2000's. If she had bad financial advisors, or just bad luck during the downturn, she could have lost tons of money.

Yes but she was broke in 2001 apparently.

 

[CoolJ]

http://youtu.be/j8LkBkvZapU

Skip ahead to about the :50 sec mark to the interview with Dr. Drew. Lots of interesting comments from BB's family members. I wonder if BB has the same opinions.

 

[FDLibra]

I remember her speaking in an interview, I think it was the Oprah one, where she claimed that she and BB bought their cocaine by the kilos. I don't know the going rate for cocaine, but I'm sure it's not cheap. Also, it seemed like they had alot of family and friends that sponged off of them.

Have a look at this link. Although I don't know where they get the information from, I have seen references to some of the same things on other sites and articles.
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/singers/whitney-houston-net-worth/
Lots of interesting things here.

Where did all the money go? Seriously? She was broke in 2001 AFTER the pinnacle of her career and then signed another 100 million contract and went broke again.

 

[passionflower]

http://youtu.be/j8LkBkvZapU

Skip ahead to about the :50 sec mark to the interview with Dr. Drew. Lots of interesting comments from BB's family members. I wonder if BB has the same opinions.

I watched it all and read the comments.................how about WH never took baths in hotel rooms!!! (I don't either!)

 

[bookboarder]

does rehab cost allot? did she ever have medical insurance? would that cover it?

Yes, it can be very expensive-- particularly if they end up in one of the "celebrity/wealthy oriented" ones. One of my family members spent 2 weeks in rehab in November and it cost over $15,000. Pretty pricey for non-acute care.

I spent time in a mental health facility for depression years ago and many people in the facility were there for substance abuse problems. This was NOT a 'chic' type of place but prior to release the business office would meet with the patients and many were facing bills of several thousand dollars for 4-5 days in the facility. Sadly, this caused acute distress for many of them-- on top of the issues they were already dealing with. It seemed quite underhanded to hand these folks massive bills just prior to releasing them but that is another situation entirely.

I was lucky in that my issues were covered by my insurance but many did not have these stays covered.

 

[bookboarder]

I remember her speaking in an interview, I think it was the Oprah one, where she claimed that she and BB bought their cocaine by the kilos. I don't know the going rate for cocaine, but I'm sure it's not cheap. Also, it seemed like they had alot of family and friends that sponged off of them.

Apparently current prices range between $20000-$30000 for a kilo... Geesh.
http://www.narcoticnews.com/drug-prices/cocaine/

Add to that all of the other drugs and they could have literally spent their fortune on drugs. What a waste.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I watched it all and read the comments.................how about WH never took baths in hotel rooms!!! (I don't either!)

If she was high maybe she did things she normally wouldn't.

JMO

 

[K_Z]

"I think they're going to try to wait and see [what happens]," the source says, adding of Brown: "In his mind, she's going to pull through – she's a fighter, and she's going to pull through. I think he's going to hold out as long as he possibly can."

http://www.people.com/article/bobby-brown-bobbi-kristina-brown-life-support

BBM. That bolded comment tells us everything we need to know. BB is "holding out" against what the doctors have told him about her current condition and prognosis.

No, there has not been an "official" announcement that BK has been found to be brain dead. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that she is, from the comments emerging, and the comments that are NOT emerging. If she had brain activity, there would be a lot of cautiously optimistic statements, IMO. I believe she has been evaluated by multiple docs, using multiple criteria, as well as every diagnostic test available at the eminent Emory University hospital. Nothing would be held back in the case of a celebrity like this, IMO, and tests would be repeated several times over many hours to be sure. IMO, she is surely brain dead. Just nothing at all is coming out that hints at the least little bit of hope. Sad. The next of kin, IMO, is in that awful place where they don't know how to accept what they're being told. So there is a lull, while the docs hope the NOK ask questions, and hopefully come to a kind of acceptance. IMO, if that doesn't happen soon, within hours to a day or 2, there will be a stronger "push" by the hospital to remove her from the vent, or a push to move her to a private room away from the ICU for a little longer while family comes to terms. JMO.

Some references on brain death determination, and a discussion by docs of their interactions with families who refuse to accept brain death:

http://www.ccm-l.org/discussion1/Ethics/uncoop.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2824942/

http://www.utmb.edu/policies_and_pr.../IHOP - 09.15.09 - Determination of Death.pdf

ETA: Apologies. That first link is broken/ not available anymore. Too bad-- it was a great discussion by ICU docs in blog format. I'll look to see if it's archived somewhere.

Another link with a simpler explanation of brain death determination (be sure to click forward to all 8 pages for the full discussion):

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brain-death2.htm

 

[Quester]

Jaclyn Schultz FOX 5 ‏@jaclynFOX5ATL 4m4 minutes agoDruid Hills, GA
Bobby Brown's friend tells @FOX5Atlanta , despite rumors, he will NOT take Bobbi Kristina off life support and believes she can recover.

Ugh! It's deja vu all over again a la Jahi. :notgood:

Have they moved into the hospital and brought a Christmas tree?

 

[kimlynn]

I was poking around again and found something I had forgotten until I ran across it a bit ago. Probably nothing but strange all the same.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/02/13/whitney-houston-dead-bobbi-kristina-bathtub/

BK fell asleep in bathtub the day before the death of her mother. Just odd. IMO

 

[K_Z]

Regarding cerebral blood flow studies (to see if any blood is flowing within the brain, as a diagnostic study to confirm brain death):

http://radiopaedia.org/cases/hot-nose-sign-brain-death

"Hot nose sign". (If interested, one can search for more info.)

 

[1&2&3]

To K_Z, the last link you listed is very informative and easy to understand. After reading all the pages, even the pages preceding the one the link takes us to, it is very sad to realize how much Bobby Brown is in denial. None of us want to admit our child has died, but having been presented with all the facts and shown the X-rays or whatever pictures have been taken of BK's brain, there is no doubt she is gone.

I question if it is BB's denial or if it is guilt of how little attention he gave to BK after Whitney passed. Perhaps BK's life is flashing thru his mind as to the life style she was raised in. A child only knows how to live by the example she is shown! My guess is the 11th will be the day they let her go, the same day her Momma passed.

My opinions only!

 

[K_Z]

I also forgot to mention thanks to nrdsb4 upthread, for the comments about withdrawal of the "medically induced coma" as a necessary part to beginning the evaluation of brain death. Both the ICU administered central nervous system depressant drugs, along with any drugs that might cause paralysis (sometimes used during mechanical ventilation), as well as any the patient took prior to admission, must be allowed to be metabolized thoroughly before any determination of brain death has begun. So, from the time that the "medically induced coma" drugs are stopped, there is probably at least 12-24 hours elapsed (minimum) before beginning the formal process to determine brain death.

Keep in mind also that many methods would have been employed to reduce the brain swelling that occurred, including placing a hole in the skull to measure rising pressure, increased respiratory rate on the ventilator (which can reduce swelling), as well as steroids, other drugs, and sometimes even hypothermia.

Global hypoxic cerebral edema (whole brain swelling due to prolonged low oxygen) can be extremely severe, and difficult to manage or stop. If the swelling is manageable, the heart beats on, even as brain tissue receives no blood flow. The pressure of the brain, along with other physiological effects, squeezes off the blood flow to the brain. If the swelling is severe enough, the brain will bulge thru the largest hole available-- the foramen magnum, which is the large hole in the base of the skull where the neck bones join. If this happens, it is called "herniation", and death occurs rather quickly.

If the swelling shuts off circulation to the brain, and no herniation occurs, and the patient's heart continues on with oxygenation from the ventilator, the patient usually develops "respirator brain" within a few days to weeks. (The brain liquefies.)

http://neuropathology-web.org/chapter2/chapter2aHIE.html

http://www.neurocriticalcare.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/23.HIE.final.pdf

 

[shana]

Regarding cerebral blood flow studies (to see if any blood is flowing within the brain, as a diagnostic study to confirm brain death):

http://radiopaedia.org/cases/hot-nose-sign-brain-death

"Hot nose sign". (If interested, one can search for more info.)

I was relieved immediately when I saw you on this thread, K_Z - thank you! I've read plenty of your insightful and well-resourced posts on Jahi's thread, until I had to give it up, knowing the circus would go on without my presence in the spectator seats. :-/

Media (often tabloid-type) sources have stated a few things in the past week such as BK opening & closing her eyes which I realize does NOT mean a DX of less than Brain Death. I'm forgetting the other claims about 'levels' rising, etc. Perhaps other posters who do remember will ask you for your take.

My current hope is that there is a plain-talk liaison at the hospital who can speak to the family and help them understand asap, lest this sad incident turn into another Jahi-type case. I think BB would not want this, but there are others in the larger family who might, for a variety of reasons, and despite who has the legal call. My concern will rise considerably if the situation remains the same in the next few days.

Many thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience with us.

~jmo~

 

[K_Z]

Out-of-hospital cardiac arrest (OHCA) is a common initial presentation of cardiovascular disease, affecting up to 325 000 people in the United States each year.1 In a recent meta-analysis of >140 000 patients with OHCA, survival to hospital admission was 23.8%, and survival to hospital discharge was only 7.6%.2 In patients who initially achieve return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) after OHCA, the significant subsequent morbidity and mortality are due largely to the cerebral and cardiac dysfunction that accompanies prolonged whole-body ischemia. This syndrome, called the post cardiac arrest syndrome, comprises anoxic brain injury, post cardiac arrest myocardial dysfunction, systemic ischemia/reperfusion response, and persistent precipitating pathology3,4 (Table 1). The contribution of each of these components in an individual patient depends on various factors, including prearrest comorbidities, duration of the ischemic insult, and cause of the cardiac arrest

.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/123/13/1428.extract

BBM. (KZ note- there are different kinds of cardiac arrest-- some have disorganized electricity, which over time degrades to flat line asystole. If the patient was in full asystole (flat line on the heart monitor) at the scene, and not an arrest from fibrillation or v-tach, and managed to be resuscitated from asystole to a normal heart rhythm, the survival to discharge numbers are even more dismal. Many physicians feel that for prolonged (greater than 10 min) asytole in out of hospital cardiac arrests, that the only realistic outcome for the patient is as potential organ donor. The numbers are really that dismal. The cases with most survival potential after prolonged asystole are of of children drowning, and hypothermic arrests and drownings.)