Book released by Defense Atty Nov 2015 #1

[Steve44]

I bet the family has little to do with her. They do not have to take her collect calls, send her money or send her mail...and I bet that makes her very mad, no matter what auntie may say.

In the post conviction interview, her mother seemed to gawk at the idea of coming to visit her, countering and dismissing the suggestion by expressing her desire and preference to spend her time with her grandchildren.

 

[Hope4More]

I guess he missed this: "I was nothing more than a dildo with a heartbeat for you,"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/31/jodi-arias-timeline_n_2387245.html

For me, that pretty much summed up their relationship and something that a young man trying his human best to follow the dictates of his religion would already be beating himself up over and therefore would not likely be a "guys are like that" kind of guy, no matter his verbal flirting.

Travis did lots of casual verbal flirting, and he went beyond that, verbally, with several women, and maybe even beyond the verbal as well, though if texts capture his activities, not between Dec 07 and March 08.

I think I know what he was saying to her with the dildo-heartbeat acusation, but IMO, it is no more accurate to say the killer used him for sex than it is to say he used her for sex. Travis told her that in the May 26 text because he was just trying to figure out what she wanted from him, why she so obviously was trying to destroy everything that he held dear.

The part that Nurmi doesn't understand, or won't admit to understanding anyway, is what you bring up about how guilty and conflicted sex made Travis feel.

I quoted upthread a very sad text exchange between Travis and Taylor. In it Travis states explicitly that he feels extremely lonely, even "numb," which I read as feelings of emptiness. He tells Taylor he has fun being a player, but that as much as anything, what he's trying to do with those pursuits is simply to make his pain go away.

Nurmi read that text.

Nurmi also knows that Taylor has said Travis was extremely angry with himself for getting physical with the killer after she moved to Mesa, even to the point of telling Taylor he hated himself for it. Nurmi knows that all of T's friends have said his faith was core to who he was, that he credited his successes and even his life to that faith.

Nurmi knows that.

Nurmi has read all the texts between them, viewed the phone logs of both, read her journals which so contradict what she tells Travis on any given day. He knows she lies. He knows that the killer was obsessed with Travis. He knows that she knows enough about Mormonism to know how conflicted Travis would feel about having sex, and he knows how much effort she put into throwing herself at him. And he has years of first hand experience in how manipulative she is, he's even listened in as she's convinced others to do her bidding.

Nurmi knows all that. Can he really be so incapable of understanding the plain as day reality that Travis didn't use her for sex, and she didn't use him for sex, rather, that she used sex to control him? The worse he felt about himself, the more self-doubt and sense of self-failure he felt, the more vulnerable he was to her. She wanted to destroy him so she could possess him entirely.

 

[Hope4More]

Maybe your right. Maybe she just didn't want the excitement to end and kept calling people to keep up all the drama.

It takes a special type of person to be able to show face at the funeral event for Travis after she just killed him. She probably knew she had better go so that people would not suspect her as much. By then it was much too late since everyone had pegged her by then.

Knowing his friends and family suspected her, she went there and openly smirked. She didn't even bother to fake tears.

I'm convinced that she went there to large part to revel in the pain she had caused those who had loved Travis and rejected her.

 

[Steve44]

I would imagine admitting his failings is not one of Nurmi's strongsuits, plus it might give Heinous the ammo she needs for a retrial based on ineffective counsel based on his own words. His contempt for Heinous is palpable, but then again, his words seem to be full of contempt for everyone involved in this case, especially Travis for being weak and falling for such a .

Nurmi had the benefit of age, an education, a different path in life than Travis did. IMO, Nurmi has a disconnect between what he experienced with his client and what Travis had to deal with. Travis did not have the tools to deal with a sociopath as manipulative as her. I don't know if Nurmi did either, but he was at least removed emotionally. IMO

Nurmi's resistance to her (base) charms was circumstantial rather than based on a greater maturity and sophistication on his part. No consummation of any promised seduction by Jodi was possible, but if he had been her focus in a social situation apart from the legal one, Nurmi would have been easy prey.

But then she would have never focused on someone like Nurmi in any other circumstance than the actual one.

 

[Steve44]

Knowing his friends and family suspected her, she went there and openly smirked. She didn't even bother to fake tears.

I'm convinced that she went there to large part to revel in the pain she had caused those who had loved Travis and rejected her.

I agree. She wanted to amuse herself with their grief, and feel superior because of its absence within her, all while wearing the mask of dutiful attendance at his memorial.

 

[nrdsb4]

Thank you so much to everyone reading and relating the book contents. This will wipe the smirk of Jodi's face, if nothing so far has. Her worst nightmare: secrets revealed, not flattering opinions shared on a world wide stage by the guy who is meant to be on her side. The information will trickle in to her head, and no one will hear her scream! No one cares how many tantrums she has this week, or how many showers! No way of rebutting Nurmi's words, or defending herself in any effective manner. Sux to be her!

She didn't appear to be smirking when they announced the verdict. That was very satisfying.

 

[lewcch3]

Nurmi reminds me of the kid in high school who probably didn't have a lot of friends, geeky, fairly smart, was tall, but not good at basketball or other sports, and might have been bullied. I wonder if he chose his specific field of practice because even the lowest of the low need representation and would have to come to him (befriend, feel needed). So many of the snippets sound petulant and whiney at best.

Another thing that struck me was that Nurmi did not possess the skill or tools to set limits. If Heinous had realized early on that she could not play him, and he had set firm boundaries, the case might have been ajudicated far earlier.

Imagine if Juan Martinez had been the defense attorney and the roles were reversed! I shudder at the thought as she might have gotten a lesser conviction. Heinous' behavior and attempts at manipulation would not have changed, but JM would have "laid down the law" early on. IMO

Very Interesting and I like! It brings to mind how DF handled her during interrogations - he firmly set boundaries and quickly established that he would not and could not be manipulated. She admitted as much when she told him "you're weird anyway".

 

[Hope4More]

Docket curiosity:

Nov 16, Superior Court docket, Motion to withdraw as counsel of record.

Nov 16, COA docket, Motion by appellant (killer) to delay response to the State's pleadings.

Say what?

ETA...and the motions earlier in November to strike? Strike what the heck what?

 

[nrdsb4]

I find this interesting that she couldn't handle what she had done. She went to the funeral event too for Travis. What she had done was driving her crazy and it explains that by the time LE had her in the interview room and interrogated her how she seemed so calm.

By then she was probably relieved that it was finally coming to an end and she knew she was in deep do do. She thought she would just work the LE and eventually be released and then she could finally be relieved from the pressure she put herself under because of what she had done.

She is one of those criminals that thought she could do a murder and she thought it would not affect her in her future life. She was so wrong. She couldn't handle it. She reached out to so many people after the murder because she could not handle the stress and pressure of what she had just done.

That suggests a conscience on some level. I believe she is a sociopath, and sociopaths have no conscience. Maybe I've misunderstood you and you just mean she was feeling the stress of knowing she would be found out and held accountable. But she never had to contact the detectives, much less have a conversation with them. It seemed to me that she was so overconfident in her intelligence and her ability to snow everyone, including and especially the detectives, that she didn't consider for a moment how monumentally foolish it was to allow the detectives to interrogate her for hours and hours without an attorney.

 

[Steve44]

Very Interesting and I like! It brings to mind how DF handled her during interrogations - he firmly set boundaries and quickly established that he would not and could not be manipulated. She admitted as much when she told him "you're weird anyway".

It was a palpable shift in her strategy, seeking an opening. I like Flores.

 

[Hatfield]

That suggests a conscience on some level. I believe she is a sociopath, and sociopaths have no conscience. Maybe I've misunderstood you and you just mean she was feeling the stress of knowing she would be found out and held accountable. But she never had to contact the detectives, much less have a conversation with them. It seemed to me that she was so overconfident in her intelligence and her ability to snow everyone, including and especially the detectives, that she didn't consider for a moment how monumentally foolish it was to allow the detectives to interrogate her for hours and hours without an attorney.

I think my original post there was wrong and others helped me realize that. I originally mistook all her phone calls to LE as her worrying about her deed and stressing about it but I now agree with others that she was probably enjoying it and enjoying the drama and putting herself into the situation again.

You are right too that she was so over confident and thought she could fool everyone. She probably felt a few calls to LE to talk to them would be sure to fool them.

 

[nrdsb4]

I think my original post there was wrong and others helped me realize that. I originally mistook all her phone calls to LE as her worrying about her deed and stressing about it but I now agree with others that she was probably enjoying it and enjoying the drama and putting herself into the situation again.

You are right too that she was so over confident and thought she could fool everyone. She probably felt a few calls to LE to talk to them would be sure to fool them.

Yeah, sorry, I replied without reading further, which I usually don't do.

I've read that one of the characteristics of sociopaths is that they often believe that they are the smartest person on the planet. Though many are very intelligent, crafty even, not all of them are particularly brilliant. But they believe they are, and often exhibit spectacularly brazen behavior which people who are actually intelligent can easily see is monumentally stupid. Which is why our prisons are full to the brim with sociopaths.

 

[LinTX]

I'm not so sure that the entry about the attorney resignation is Willmott, I think it's either Green or Engle. For one thing, Willmott would have been under contract via Public Defender's office and assigned for the criminal case. Remember her interview where she was almost glowing at the anticipation of being off the case once the appeal was filed? This notice would be filed in Superior Court rather than COA b/c Superior Court pays for and assigns representation for appeals. JSS assigned it to the Public Defender's office - Martin, Green and Engle are PD's.

It could be that one or the other just had some other reason to resign, but I think it's also possible that JA is once again thinking she deserves all their time and is driving them nuts with phone calls, demands that really have nothing to do with her appeal. One of these days, if Nurmi makes enough on his books, maybe one of them will write one and tell us all about it (s/c)...

eta: Hope4More last post, the motion to strike is asking the Superior Court to strike Judge Myers order to unseal the docs. They also requested COA to strike it. The new COA entry requesting more time makes sense if one of the appeals attorneys withdrew, doesn't it?

 

[RickshawFan]

Nurmi reminds me of the kid in high school who probably didn't have a lot of friends, geeky, fairly smart, was tall, but not good at basketball or other sports, and might have been bullied. I wonder if he chose his specific field of practice because even the lowest of the low need representation and would have to come to him (befriend, feel needed). So many of the snippets sound petulant and whiney at best.

BBM. IMO Nurmi is neither geeky nor smart. He obviously slopped his way through school and university. Dork maybe, but not geek. Dweeb? His clusminess and size might have got him bullied (but without photos, it's hard to know what he looked like as a youngster), but not his brains or work ethic. Whining might not have gone over with the "in" crowd, either.

 

[MaLou]

Very Interesting and I like! It brings to mind how DF handled her during interrogations - he firmly set boundaries and quickly established that he would not and could not be manipulated. She admitted as much when she told him "you're weird anyway".

She said this to Detective Flores??? I never knew this.

 

[Hope4More]

I'm not so sure that the entry about the attorney resignation is Willmott, I think it's either Green or Engle. For one thing, Willmott would have been under contract via Public Defender's office and assigned for the criminal case. Remember her interview where she was almost glowing at the anticipation of being off the case once the appeal was filed? This notice would be filed in Superior Court rather than COA b/c Superior Court pays for and assigns representation for appeals. JSS assigned it to the Public Defender's office - Martin, Green and Engle are PD's.

It could be that one or the other just had some other reason to resign, but I think it's also possible that JA is once again thinking she deserves all their time and is driving them nuts with phone calls, demands that really have nothing to do with her appeal. One of these days, if Nurmi makes enough on his books, maybe one of them will write one and tell us all about it (s/c)...

eta: Hope4More last post, the motion to strike is asking the Superior Court to strike Judge Myers order to unseal the docs. They also requested COA to strike it. The new COA entry requesting more time makes sense if one of the appeals attorneys withdrew, doesn't it?

Thanks for your strike explanation- makes sense. Not sure I'm following your logic about which Atty is withdrawing.

Her appellate attorneys are the attorneys of record on the COA docket. Wouldn't a motion to withdraw by an AA show up on the COA docket rather than- or at least in addition to -the Sup Ct docket?


ETA.. Skimmed back through both dockets/sites. There is nothing anywhere on either site ( that I could find) about Nurmi or Wilmott withdrawing, or of the killer's first AA withdrawing, or on her current 2 AA's being appointed.

Just 2 cites show up, both on the Sup Ct's docket- an AA first appointed in May, and now this motion to withdraw.

Curious. I hope it is one or both of her AA's. Maybe they read Nurmi's book and decided, H-ll no!!!!

 

[RickshawFan]

Very Interesting and I like! It brings to mind how DF handled her during interrogations - he firmly set boundaries and quickly established that he would not and could not be manipulated. She admitted as much when she told him "you're weird anyway".

The boundaries that EF set were so humiliating, too. I just loved this! E.g. chaperone to bathroom required, minimalist bologna sandwich prepared by jail-ees, no getting up from the chair (although she did create that disruption with the tape recorder), being made to wait until he was available (he took his pretty time) to get her handcuffs removed, very obviously displaying a whole file of forensic photos he wouldn't allow her to see.... Every time, I see the interrogation tapes, I marvel at EF's skill.

 

[Hope4More]

The boundaries that EF set were so humiliating, too. I just loved this! E.g. chaperone to bathroom required, minimalist bologna sandwich prepared by jail-ees, no getting up from the chair (although she did create that disruption with the tape recorder), being made to wait until he was available (he took his pretty time) to get her handcuffs removed, very obviously displaying a whole file of forensic photos he wouldn't allow her to see.... Every time, I see the interrogation tapes, I marvel at EF's skill.

Me too. All the way through her post-arrest request to pretty herself up for the mugshot and EF's speedy reply of - no, we can't let you do that. I'm afraid you're gonna have to come along just as you are. ...

 

[LinTX]

Thanks for your strike explanation- makes sense. Not sure I'm following your logic about which Atty is withdrawing.

Her appellate attorneys are the attorneys of record on the COA docket. Wouldn't a motion to withdraw by an AA show up on the COA docket rather than- or at least in addition to -the Sup Ct docket?

I'm just guessing here but I'll try to explain how I'm seeing it. Since Superior Court is charged with assigning indigent's attorneys, maybe that's why the withdrawal is noted there? But then I guess technically JSS assigned the PD office rather than specific attorneys so maybe the PD's office is withdrawing, as they did during the trial? This case may require too much time for their limited number of appeal attorneys?

If you notice on the minute entry for Myers' motion, the only defense attorney listed is Green, and the only entries made after the appeal was filed w/Willmott's name are ones correcting errors pertaining to the record in which she was involved. Nurmi is listed on those entries too, btw. Since Myer's motion was filed in Superior Court, wouldn't Willmott have been on it if she were still attorney of record?

 

[samspace070]

The timing of Jenny finally officially withdrawing as counsel of record yesterday?

Hypothetical scenario 1.

Perhaps because the killer's fans are writing to tell her what's in the book and she's been spamming Jenny's office demanding to talk with her to rage about the book? Because she called her appeals attys first and they won't answer the phone? And Jenny was all like- dang. I knew there was something I forgot to do, filed the motion asap then told her on the killer call-in, sorry, I'm not your attorney anymore, take it up with Meg?

Hypothetical Scenario 2.

Ahler's investigation about jury tampering edges closer to Jenny- MDLR - killer contact and communications and Jenny's attorney asks her- well, you haven't been in touch with her since June, right, after the reparations hearing, since that was your last obligation as her attorney. Right? Right? Jenny?


Hypothetical scenario 3.

Jenny didn't resign as counsel of record in June because she and or MDLR wanted or needed to stay in contact with the killer to discuss things on a protected phone line, and it wasn't until the killer bombarded Jenny with screamy calls about the book that Jenny decided- not worth it , and pulled the plug?

I think you are right Hope4More, I completely forgot about Jenny, CMJA has her number branded in her brain, if she had speed dial she would wear it out. Has any seen the motion yet?