Bosma Murder Trial 02.23.16 - Day 13

[Abitcountry]

That is of course, assuming propane was actually purchased and not stolen. Just thinking about this massive propane tank...

Hubby disconnects ours from the grill, puts it in the trunk of the car and takes it to be filled at the local gas station that has a propane filling station. When it's full, it's pretty heavy. And that's just a little tank for a back yard grill.

This tank, that powered the incinerator is not being picked up by anyone - empty or full. It had to be either towed to a filling station or have a propane delivery come to where it was. I don't know much about airplane hangars but would there be a propane filling station right there at the airport?

Just thinking out loud here.

I was on the road right beside that hangar twice today and while I thought I had seen all there was to see from the road, today I noticed something different.....Right outside the hangar doors and set off to the side is a least one very large propane tank.....and I suspect that even now a proprane delivery truck drives up virtually to the door....it would have been no problem to fill up the mobile tank whenever the need be.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Could it be possible that the metal particles were bullet fragments?
JMHO

If you imagine for a moment what TB was wearing that night of the test drive, it's pretty easy to come up with what those metal particles would be.

Zipper (from his jeans & jacket)
Buttons/metallic rivets (from jeans & jacket)
Wedding or other rings, or necklace/pendant if he wore one
Dental fillings (although most are not silver/metallic these days he could have had an old-school dentist as a kid)
Bullet(s) that never exited his body
Keys/Keychain (only his truck key was found - in DM's Yukon on his keychain, the filthy blankety blank - but I'm guessing he had other keys on him - house key, garage key, key ring, etc.)

The list could be even longer, but those would be the most obvious 'metallic' fragments after burning a clothed person. Ugh, sure hated typing that.

 

[aawaterloo]

Maybe. All I know is what another poster had commented earlier and what I saw today...DM and MS don't even so much as look at each other the entire time they are in that courtroom. I got the impression that these two former friends don't like each other very much. JMO

In my opinion, DM's defense team is trying to put the blame on MS (indirectly) to get away from murder charges. MS and his Lawyers know this and they are trying to project that DM controlled the situation and MS followed his instructions.
Perhaps this is the reason MS had Pacific written on his shoes to stay calm and not punch DM in the face.

It'd be interesting to see what kind of activities security cameras caught happening in the hanger on the early hours of May 7th.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I was on the road right beside that hangar twice today and while I thought I had seen all there was to see from the road, today I noticed something different.....Right outside the hangar doors and set off to the side is a least one very large propane tank.....and I suspect that even now a proprane delivery truck drives up virtually to the door....it would have been no problem to fill up the mobile tank whenever the need be.

I thought about propane filling stations at the airport but then figured they'd (whoever worked at the hangar) need to have some kind of swipe card or something to just fill up there. If that's the case, there'll be a paper trail. The other option is having propane delivered - which is very common for homes & businesses with propane fueled appliances. In that case as well, there'd be a paper trail.

The other option is stealing it and refilling it as needed. Which also wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

[JPC]

Thanks SnooperDuper! So it would seem that LE had knowledge of the DVR BEFORE her arrest (bc they were at CN's house with a search warrant for the DVR around noon - from testimony today) So, IMO, CN was not the source......

I wonder if MS girlfriend made LE aware of this evidence

 

[Kamille]

I feel like I'm getting in a lot of these back-and-forths tonight, but: I suspect by the time DM thought about the DVR, the Eliminator was already parked in the trees.

CN: trying to put myself in her place. My boyfriend is in jail for murder. I'm hiding evidence, and I helped him clean up after the fact. The cops are probably watching my every move, but my boyfriend has told me to stay cool and it'll all be fine. Do I, at this point, put a large heavy object in my bag and -- do what with it? Throw it in a trash can at Canadian Tire? Retail stores have security cameras, and someone may see me do it, or find it when they clean out the bins. Throw it in a dumpster? Better make sure no one is around. And it's weird how often evidence in dumpsters gets found. Drive out to the country and dump it -- where? Side of the road? What if the cops are following me? What if a passing car sees me? And I already know it didn't take someone long to find Tim's phone after that was dumped, and it was so much smaller.

Yeah, I'll just leave it in my closet and hope my millionaire boyfriend knows best.

I'll go one more. The lawyer my parents hired for me has warned me about the charge for tampering with or destroying evidence. I'm already counting on the fact that my posse is not going to rat me out as having any part in this. It's not like LE have anything on me.

It appears that she's as ignorant as her boyfriend with regards to cell phone pings. I bet they both had Iphones and turned off their location services thinking that was going to take care of the problem.

MOO

 

[aawaterloo]

If you imagine for a moment what TB was wearing that night of the test drive, it's pretty easy to come up with what those metal particles would be.

Zipper (from his jeans & jacket)
Buttons/metallic rivets (from jeans & jacket)
Wedding or other rings, or necklace/pendant if he wore one
Dental fillings (although most are not silver/metallic these days he could have had an old-school dentist as a kid)
Bullet(s) that never exited his body
Keys/Keychain (only his truck key was found - in DM's Yukon on his keychain, the filthy blankety blank - but I'm guessing he had other keys on him - house key, garage key, key ring, etc.)

The list could be even longer, but those would be the most obvious 'metallic' fragments after burning a clothed person. Ugh, sure hated typing that.

All good points.
Most metals would melt in the incinerator though. However it should be possible to do a material analysis on the metallic particales to corelate them to the items above in my opinion

 

[Kamille]

Maybe. All I know is what another poster had commented earlier and what I saw today...DM and MS don't even so much as look at each other the entire time they are in that courtroom. I got the impression that these two former friends don't like each other very much. JMO

Certainly not once DM got a hold of discovery IMO.

MOO

 

[puppyraiser]

I wonder if MS girlfriend made LE aware of this evidence

Way back when MS was arrested, there was a video of a female talking to a reporter. Was that his girlfriend, or just a female friend/neighbour?

 

[billandrew]

Way back when MS was arrested, there was a video of a female talking to a reporter. Was that his girlfriend, or just a female friend/neighbour?

I remember her. She was just a friend. It wasn't MM. She also had a rather public Facebook outburst on the "Discuss the Case" page. It all got deleted later.

Edit: She appears in this video: http://globalnews.ca/news/585859/2nd-suspect-formally-charged-in-tim-bosma-murder-case/

 

[Ironworker736]

In my opinion, DM's defense team is trying to put the blame on MS (indirectly) to get away from murder charges. MS and his Lawyers know this and they are trying to project that DM controlled the situation and MS followed his instructions.
Perhaps this is the reason MS had Pacific written on his shoes to stay calm and not punch DM in the face.

It'd be interesting to see what kind of activities security cameras caught happening in the hanger on the early hours of May 7th.

What you are talking about is an "antagonistic defense". Google "joinder and severance". I agree, the video should be interesting to see, for sure.

The "interest of justice" is determined based on the balance of “prejudice to the accused and the public interest in a single trial”. [SUP][1][/SUP]This includes the interests of those of the accused, the co-accused, and the community as represented by the prosecution. The trial judge shall weigh the competing interests and will sever only if satisfied that severance is required. The applicant must overcome the presumption that co-accused who are jointly charged and are said to have acted in concert, should be tried together.[SUP][2][/SUP] The crown has the option to indict the accused separately or jointly, and the discretion so exercised is entitled to great weight.[SUP][3][/SUP]
The factors to consider include:[SUP][4][/SUP]

• the general prejudice to the accused;
• the legal and factual nexus between the counts;
• the complexity of the evidence;
• whether the accused intends to testify on one count but not another;
• the possibility of inconsistent verdicts;
• the desire to avoid a multiplicity of proceedings;
• the use of similar fact evidence at trial;
• the length of the trial having regard to the evidence to be called;
• the potential prejudice to the accused with respect to the right to be tried within a reasonable time;
• and the existence of antagonistic defences as between co-accused persons
• expense and convenience of witnesses;[SUP][5][/SUP]

Severance will be granted where:[SUP][6][/SUP]

• the defendants have antagonistic defences;
• the important evidence in favour of one of the defendants which would be admissible on a separate trial would not be allowed on a joint trial;
• the evidence which is incompetent against one defendant is to be introduced against another, and that it would work prejudicially to the former with the jury;
• a confession made by one of the defendants, if introduced and proved, would be calculated to prejudice the jury against the other defendants; and
• one of the defendants could give evidence for the whole or some of the other defendants and would become a competent and compellable witness on the separate trials of such other defendants.

I wonder if this will be a legal maneuver employed by either defense at some point down the road, if things aren't going their way, if that's even possible?

 

[Orderly]

Bought the biggest strongest permanent magnet I could find and ripped the HD out and applied the magnet sweeping it back and forth for 10-15 mins.


JMO but I think it was kept as leverage over MS. I suspect alot of what goes on in this little world involves leverage aka 'indirect blackmail'

Hm, imagine being 22 with no legal background and only Google or the library as sources of information (she didn't tell any of her friends that he was in jail so they aren't likely to be sources). However, even those sources have limited usefulness since anything you search or any book you take out could be used as evidence against you since you're under surveillance. The only theory that makes sense for the police being able to search her house is that they knew they would find something because they were told something (maybe the person who passed the letters to CN). The police needed probable cause, I'm assuming that's why they took so long.

 

[Ironworker736]

Hm, imagine being 22 with no legal background and only Google or the library as sources of information (she didn't tell any of her friends that he was in jail so they aren't likely to be sources). However, even those sources have limited usefulness since anything you search or any book you take out could be used as evidence against you since you're under surveillance. The only theory that makes sense for the police being able to search her house is that they knew they would find something because they were told something (maybe the person who passed the letters to CN). The police needed probable cause, I'm assuming that's why they took so long.

The warrant listed that exact DVR. I'm not sure why they felt it was at CN's house, but that's what they were looking for.

 

[Kamille]

I thought about propane filling stations at the airport but then figured they'd (whoever worked at the hangar) need to have some kind of swipe card or something to just fill up there. If that's the case, there'll be a paper trail. The other option is having propane delivered - which is very common for homes & businesses with propane fueled appliances. In that case as well, there'd be a paper trail.

The other option is stealing it and refilling it as needed. Which also wouldn't surprise me in the least.

They probably had propane powered fork lifts and other propane powered equipment so it wouldn't be unusual to see charges for propane on the company books.

MOO

 

[deugirtni]

I showed my hubby the pic of the incinerator, where it shows the length on the propane tank. His guess was it was probably a 200 L tank. That's judging that his trailer dimensions are correct for then tandem. trailer. He said the tank could even be bigger but that was his best guess.

So IF it is the 200L tank, that tank would last roughly 6.3 hours (if my math is correct)
Penner stated that it burns 31.7 L/hour on a full burn. So my guess is that's at its full setting. From what I've read, you can increase an decrease the burn Temps.

Feb 22 2016 2:44 PM

Penner said in another email the SN500 would need 31.7 litres of propane per hour at full capacity

I thought I had read somewhere that it was a 100# propane tank, and then I found this (BBM):

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP Feb 17 Witness calls incinerator "a red neck smoker" It had a 100 lbs propane tank.Big, bold orange letters."THE ELIMINATOR" @AM900CHML #timbosma


1 retweet 1 like

100 lb tank ​

Capacity: 91 litres​

Dimensions: 60 inches tall, 12 inches wide
​

http://www.sispropane.ca/sizing-propane-tanks

If the tank was indeed only 100#, and it burned 31.7L/hr (according to Penner), the tank wouldn't have allowed enough for a 3 hour burn, which is less time than it would take for a 170lb 'animal', correct?

 

[LoyalSleuth]

I'm not sure what the legal issue was, but Leitch specifically told officer Wilson to not say what the other item recovered was, just that it was recovered. Anyone recall any details about this mystery item?

"Wilson said there was a second item seized by police during the search but was asked by assistant Crown attorney Tony Leitch not to say what it was."

I think the second item is the letters from DM.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not sure what the legal issue was, but Leitch specifically told officer Wilson to not say what the other item recovered was, just that it was recovered. Anyone recall any details about this mystery item?

"Wilson said there was a second item seized by police during the search but was asked by assistant Crown attorney Tony Leitch not to say what it was."

Aside from the letters that DM wrote to CN from jail, which were also purportedly found in her bedroom (I believe?),.... weren't the additional charges (1st degree murder charges for DM and MS re LB, and 1st degree murder charge for DM re WM) laid at the same time as the Accessory charge against CN? That led me to believe that the closet find had some kind of proof that one or both of those murders were committed by those people. The officer would not have been allowed to mention anything about those other murders during this trial. MOO

 

[jash]

I feel like I'm getting in a lot of these back-and-forths tonight, but: I suspect by the time DM thought about the DVR, the Eliminator was already parked in the trees.

CN: trying to put myself in her place. My boyfriend is in jail for murder. I'm hiding evidence, and I helped him clean up after the fact. The cops are probably watching my every move, but my boyfriend has told me to stay cool and it'll all be fine. Do I, at this point, put a large heavy object in my bag and -- do what with it? Throw it in a trash can at Canadian Tire? Retail stores have security cameras, and someone may see me do it, or find it when they clean out the bins. Throw it in a dumpster? Better make sure no one is around. And it's weird how often evidence in dumpsters gets found. Drive out to the country and dump it -- where? Side of the road? What if the cops are following me? What if a passing car sees me? And I already know it didn't take someone long to find Tim's phone after that was dumped, and it was so much smaller.

Yeah, I'll just leave it in my closet and hope my millionaire boyfriend knows best.

May 9th was the day AJ took photos of the truck and called Crimestoppers. Assuming SS gave DM the heads up about that later that day/evening, that could be what triggered DM's all-night clean up mission.

DM communicated with CN at 9:39 PM. He gave her the DVR when he picked her up en route to his mother's house. After Kleinburg they went to the farm to move the Eliminator. And around 4:00 AM (on May 10th), they dropped off the locked toolbox.

Curious that he didn't leave the DVR with the toolbox. As some have suggested, it may have been because he wanted it as insurance/blackmail against MS and trusted his girlfriend wouldn't give it up. Clearly MS was able to retrieve the toolbox but I have a feeling DM didn't have a problem with that. It sounds like MS got rid of the weapon (or tried to at least, via burial), which would benefit both MS and DM. Maybe after the police visited him at the hangar, DM told MS to get rid of it.

It will be very interesting to see DM's phone activity between the time of the police visit and his arrest.

 

[Ironworker736]

Aside from the letters that DM wrote to CN from jail, which were also purportedly found in her bedroom (I believe?),.... weren't the additional charges (1st degree murder charges for DM and MS re LB, and 1st degree murder charge for DM re WM) laid at the same time as the Accessory charge against CN? That led me to believe that the closet find had some kind of proof that one or both of those murders were committed by those people. The officer would not have been allowed to mention anything about those other murders during this trial. MOO

That makes sense. Thank you.

 

[billandrew]

Can DM's letters to CN be inadmissible if the search warrant was to specifically find a DVR, and not to search for any additional evidence?