Bosma Murder Trial 04.14.16 - Day 35

[matou]

This photo of a gun was found on a Blackberry recovered from Mark Smich's home. (Court exhibit)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-michalski-3-1.3535763

 

[mimimic]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Jury getting break now. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 46s46 seconds ago
May 7 2013, 1:33 am incoming message "Baby." Then at 2:27 outgoing "you it's mark, you home?"

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 31s31 seconds ago
Now seeing messages from May 7. But taking a break before getting into those. #Bosma

yup and another to follow but for the 6th

 

[brightii]

First thought was..wow, was he gonna shoot himself.
Second was, he was trying to figure out the ammo for DM's gun.

But does make ya wonder...was the gun really buried?

My first thought is that MS may have felt he needed protection, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[mimimic]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 24s25 seconds ago
May 6 chat. Outgoing message: 3:30 a.m. Woke up in pain...Going to burn and go back to sleep. This sucks...Incoming message: eta 8pm

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 12s13 seconds ago
Another chat from 3am on the day #TimBosma vanished "330am woke up in pain" and "going to burn and go back to sleep, this sucks" #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 44s44 seconds ago
1. 3:35am Outgoing - "330 am woke up in pain"
2. Outgoing - "Going to burn and go back to sleep, this sucks"
3. 7:36pm Incoming - "eta 8pm"

oh yes this weird one from the 6th...

 

[billandrew]

Some inconsistencies in Michalski's testimony about May 5 (tweets from Molly Hayes):

• Crown now jumping to Sunday May 5, 2013. His plan that day was to go rollerblading downtown.
• Rollerblading would've been around noon/1pm. Returned around 5pm.
• When he got home, Dellen Millard and Mark Smich were both at the house.
• Crown asks if he knows what they had been doing. Michalski said they had gone to test drive one of the trucks Millard had shown him.
• Millard told him that. Smich was there, and said he was sick. Michalski says that was 'their excuse for not stealing the truck.'

VS.

• Now seeing texts btwn Michalski and Millard from May 5-May 7, 2013.
• Aft of May 5, Michalski sent Millard a photo of a sailboat downtown on Lakeshore. "For sale or long term charter!"
• Still May 5, he texts Millard "thanks for the house to myself " Millard responds that Pedo (dog) is there.
• Around 5pm, Millard says he'll be home in 20-30 mins. Michalski says he'll be napping by then.

I think the best explanation is that AM actually got home around 4:30ish, and DM/MS showed up sometime after 5pm. Rather than napping, AM was awake and asked about the test drive.

 

[matou]

CLAIRMONT: Why Tim Bosma died is the weightiest question

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6498218-clairmont-why-tim-bosma-died-is-the-weightiest-question

 

[brightii]

I wonder who the Crown will call first to the stand to give testimony, CN or MM? I think these will be the last two key witnesses called before the Crown closes their case, IMO, and as others too have speculated here.

Will it matter if one or the other is made aware through media reports as to what the other says on the stand? Just wondering aloud.

All MOO.

 

[billandrew]

billandrew there was ipad communication on the 7th, no? sorry i realize you are far more thorough on this type of stuff than i will ever be but - it's not there.

I don't fully understand all of the May 7 iPad messages yet. The "baby" message at 1:33am is reported to be an incoming message to the iPad. Is it from Meneses? There's another incoming message that says "yo it's mark, you home?" Is that a reporter error? I would guess that it should be an outgoing message to Meneses. Regardless, I don't know what time it was sent so have left it off the timeline.

Another message is outgoing, "Yo I'm coming home now". The time was 7:50am. This is the only one I've added to the timeline for now. Hopefully we'll get an extraction report so I can get the exact times and add all of the messages properly.

 

[Errrr]

First thought was..wow, was he gonna shoot himself.
Second was, he was trying to figure out the ammo for DM's gun.

But does make ya wonder...was the gun really buried?

I think that was Marks gun? I wonder where DMs gun got to? From looking at the behaviour of this lot it wouldn't surprise me if it was at MBs house.

 

[MsSherlock]

My first thought is that MS may have felt he needed protection, IMO.

All MOO.

I think that's exactly where TD wanted his cross to go. When asking AM why he didn't take the bag and toolbox to LE instead of MS.

Mark wanted it," Michalski said.

"So we're going to dump it on Smich, right?" Dungey said. "No, he wanted it," Michalski responded.

"A big strapping guy like you isn't going to listen to a small guy like Mark Smich," Dungey said. "You weren't afraid of him."

"I was afraid of him, yes sir," Michalski responded.

IMHO, TD went in on an attack on AM's character here- the "why didn't you contact LE" hoping to get his "you're just protecting DM" theory out there some more. IMO, it really backfired this time- resulting in AM saying it was MS who wanted it and he was in fact afraid of MS. IMO, TD wasn't expecting that and had to finish up with his signature "you're lying jab". Cue more gun evidence. MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I think that was Marks gun? I wonder where DMs gun got to? From looking at the behaviour of this lot it wouldn't surprise me if it was at MBs house.

Maybe Pedo has it.

 

[mimimic]

I don't fully understand all of the May 7 iPad messages yet. The "baby" message at 1:33am is reported to be an incoming message to the iPad. Is it from Meneses? There's another incoming message that says "yo it's mark, you home?" Is that a reporter error? I would guess that it should be an outgoing message to Meneses. Regardless, I don't know what time it was sent so have left it off the timeline.

Another message is outgoing, "Yo I'm coming home now". The time was 7:50am. This is the only one I've added to the timeline for now. Hopefully we'll get an extraction report so I can get the exact times and add all of the messages properly.

Fair enough . so much info. Crazy day

 

[mozzagirl]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6498218-clairmont-why-tim-bosma-died-is-the-weightiest-question/

The term "thrill kill" is so offensive, so repugnant that I am loath to use it. And yet …
To think that Tim may have been killed for a truck is difficult enough to understand.
But if he was killed for even less — for someone's sick idea of a thrill — that is beyond reckoning.

 

[Claroon]

Some inconsistencies in Michalski's testimony about May 5 (tweets from Molly Hayes):

• Crown now jumping to Sunday May 5, 2013. His plan that day was to go rollerblading downtown.
• Rollerblading would've been around noon/1pm. Returned around 5pm.
• When he got home, Dellen Millard and Mark Smich were both at the house.
• Crown asks if he knows what they had been doing. Michalski said they had gone to test drive one of the trucks Millard had shown him.
• Millard told him that. Smich was there, and said he was sick. Michalski says that was 'their excuse for not stealing the truck.'

VS.

• Now seeing texts btwn Michalski and Millard from May 5-May 7, 2013.
• Aft of May 5, Michalski sent Millard a photo of a sailboat downtown on Lakeshore. "For sale or long term charter!"
• Still May 5, he texts Millard "thanks for the house to myself " Millard responds that Pedo (dog) is there.
• Around 5pm, Millard says he'll be home in 20-30 mins. Michalski says he'll be napping by then.

I think the best explanation is that AM actually got home around 4:30ish, and DM/MS showed up sometime after 5pm. Rather than napping, AM was awake and asked about the test drive.

I'm not seeing this as a major inconsistency especially since the term "around" was used. As far as thanking him for having the house to himself, maybe thanking him for private time with an overnight guest or for having the morning to himself. Not necessarily meaning he was home at the time of making the comment.

 

[palisadesk]

Yes somebody please put the comment of reasonable doubt in plain english, correct me if i am wrong, does it mean be reasonable - is there any doubt.? like for real? apologize i have now had a wine AND i am in shock with this testimony today!

OK, I will take a stab at this. I think the best way to explain it is to come at it the other way around, that is, to explain what "beyond a reasonable doubt" (the criterion for conviction) is. I remember the gist of this explanation from a judge but I don't recall which case or the exact illustrative examples he provided. But I'm sure I have the general idea.

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" does not mean certainty. That would be an impossible standard to meet. Instead, where convictions are concerned, it should mean the same kind of assurance one would have in making some very significant life decision that carried long-term and important consequences, and into which decision many factors enter. I believe the judge gave the example of purchasing a house or leaving one highly satisfactory job for another. In the house example, the careful purchaser would consider many variables, have an inspection of the property, a title search, work out the financing, suss out the neighbourhood, available services, schools if applicable, and so on and so forth (you get the drift). If one then decides, based on the totality of the evidence, that this is the right house to buy, one could still be making a mistake - but not likely. The purchase is considered, well-thought-out, based on a number of facts and data, weighed against needs and requirements, and so one can be sure "beyond a reasonable doubt" that it's the one to buy. The decision can never meet the goal of being an absolute certainty, but if the buyer has done his/her homework he can be as close to certain as is reasonably possible.

That, according to this illustration (which I thought was a good one and that's why I remember it) is what "beyond a reasonable doubt" means in a criminal case. It's not necessary for every little detail to be right. To demand that would be "unreasonable."

 

[Errrr]

Finally caught up in today's thread - wow - lot's a important information revealed!

IMO, TD did a remarkable job with AM on the stand. Someone commented previously today (sorry I can't recall whom) that AM didn't lie as much as MH. I see it differently. TD said MH told 40 lies; AM lied for his first 60 pages of the statement he gave to LE. I think that must have tallied up to more lies than fewer, IMO.

bbm rsbm ubm Notable TD moments in his cross of AM from my perspective.




Still re-reading the thread. There's a lot of info to sift through more thoroughly. Thanks to those who posted the tweets - it's much appreciated!

All MOO.

I think DM had been grooming AM for a bigger position in his plans for a while. He alludes to missions he can choose, without being specific, allowing him to determine just how dirty AM was willing to get. When he asked which truck he should steal, I think he was testing AM. It appears AM may have been okay with business theft but drew a line when it got too personal with individual owners. DM seemed very tight lipped about the mission after AM told him to *advertiser censored*****f. He kept answers to a minimum because he knew AM was not into it.

 

[ABro]

Looking at the timeline for May 4, I can see that DM asked AM, "Should I steal [the truck] from the nice guy or the *******?" shortly after calling both Tumanenko and Bosma. DM then went out around 6pm to switch the Yukon for the white van from Villada. He told Villada to use the Yukon for about 1 week.

Why did DM want the white van? Did he think this would be the ideal vehicle to toss a dead body into the back of? :waitasec:

Regardless of his intended use for the white van, DM decided to switch it back for the Yukon later that same evening.

Somewhere in there as well, DM texted SS "got it!" What was he referring to? Was there an item he was looking for and he found it in the white van? It was speculated that this message was referring to the big generator. Is it possible that the generator was in the van because Villada was using it, and DM dropped it off at the farm so it would be available to use with the incinerator soon? :waitasec:

DM switched his Yukon for Javier's red truck (the one he leased from DM) at Sherway Gardens. Then later that night DM went to Riverside, took his Yukon back and left Javier the white van.

 

[mimimic]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 24s25 seconds ago
May 6 chat. Outgoing message: 3:30 a.m. Woke up in pain...Going to burn and go back to sleep. This sucks...Incoming message: eta 8pm

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 12s13 seconds ago
Another chat from 3am on the day #TimBosma vanished "330am woke up in pain" and "going to burn and go back to sleep, this sucks" #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 44s44 seconds ago
1. 3:35am Outgoing - "330 am woke up in pain"
2. Outgoing - "Going to burn and go back to sleep, this sucks"
3. 7:36pm Incoming - "eta 8pm"

Not for Tim, but i wonder if they went on a different 'mission" after IT. cause why the waking in pain at 3 am?

 

[Claroon]

I don't fully understand all of the May 7 iPad messages yet. The "baby" message at 1:33am is reported to be an incoming message to the iPad. Is it from Meneses? There's another incoming message that says "yo it's mark, you home?" Is that a reporter error? I would guess that it should be an outgoing message to Meneses. Regardless, I don't know what time it was sent so have left it off the timeline.

Another message is outgoing, "Yo I'm coming home now". The time was 7:50am. This is the only one I've added to the timeline for now. Hopefully we'll get an extraction report so I can get the exact times and add all of the messages properly.

They prefaced this testimony by saying it may seem confusing. First, I believe it was synced to 3 computers and then Molly Hayes says: "Another w are linked to 'yes_you_may@hotmail.com' email, which Ryder explains could be used for an 'iMessage' convo (in lieu of a #)."

Makes me think all messages could be read on several devices making it hard to source the message.

 

[billandrew]

DM switched his Yukon for Javier's red truck (the one he leased from DM) at Sherway Gardens. Then later that night DM went to Riverside, took his Yukon back and left Javier the white van.

Thank you, this makes more sense. He was essentially lining up his "mission" vehicles.