Bosma Murder Trial 04.21.16 - Day 38

[flipflop]

I certainly hope he is not bothering the family.

Being in the same room would bother the family, I'm sure!!!

 

[paris_paris]

Haha, this is exactly why I keep harping on this issue. There are three possibilities here:

1. She's making up a story. Is there any incentive for her to do so? The defense will surely be all over her, right?
2. She's correct and Millard's picture was in fact shown on the news on Friday, May 10. However, most people are certain that Millard's name didn't come out until the 11th.
3. Her memory of the events is blurry and she didn't actually see his face on the TV until a later date.

Which do you think is most plausible?

I think the question will be asked next week. She didn't see it on the news, but they both knew. He told AM when he called him that DM had been arrested. I am very curious about the 50 minute visit. I wonder if that's one of the things legal arguments prevented them from asking today.

 

[Kamille]

Is the consensus that this part of Meneses's testimony is 1) a lie, or 2) a misrecollection? I was hoping somebody here would recall hearing about Millard's arrest on the Friday night (May 10), but most people seem pretty convinced that there was absolutely no announcement until the next day. I personally cannot remember, nor can I find a good source about the news coming out on the 10th.

What bothers me about this is that Meneses's testimony fits so well into the timeline, and something alerted Smich to start calling Michalski about getting the drugs out of Maple Gate. And in all of the testimony we heard, there was no mention of Noudga or anyone else reaching out to Smich to tell him that Millard was arrested. If there was no news until Saturday, I'd like to understand how Smich found out, and why Meneses is lying/misremembering.

My personal opinion is that they ALL knew a lot more about what went down that week than any of them were willing to tell LE at the time of their statements, or the jury in this trial. Every one of them covered their own behinds as to what they knew about this crime first and told LE the bare minimum amount of what they knew about the two suspects activities that week to keep the heat off of them, especially the ones who were arrested before giving out any information. Once those two (AM and MM) were arrested, they did give out some good and helpful info but were still holding back and lying about things to keep themselves and some of the others out of the full picture IMO. While I do not believe that any of them are part of the murder, I believe that all of them knew a LOT more than what they were willing to tell.

There is a story about Friday May 10th, amongst them all, that no one is telling IMO. I believe that was the day LE released the information about the ambition tattoo and full description of the suspects. All the "minions" knew at that point it was only a matter of time before LE zeroed in on DM. I think they all knew at that point that the missing truck was the stolen truck and that DM and MS were responsible for the missing man's demise. And it appears that MB was also wondering what was going on that day but I'm not sure who she may have eventually gotten info from. My guess is CN. I'll bet they had quite the talk after one or the other found out about DM's arrest.

By 9pm that evening, LE had visited the hangar in the afternoon, AJ had been fired, SS had helped to conceal the red truck, DM had been arrested in the early evening and MS and MM had found out somehow. And not from the news as MM has just told a jury under oath. After 9pm, MS called AM to pass him the drugs (and perhaps the toolbox), AM called MH and I'm sure they were all in touch with CN by that point. In fact, she was probably the one who first notified MS that DM was arrested. By the end of the next day, MB had called AM about her and CN picking up Pedo, AM and MH had dropped off drugs and a gun to MS and NOT ONE OF THEM called LE about who the other suspect was, the trailer sitting in MB's driveway, what they knew about DM's activities that week .... nothing.

It took AM's arrest and over 40 pages of his original statement just to squeak a little truth out of him in the last 20 pages, with a whole lot of "I don't know, I don't remember, I didn't asks". That probably also prompted MH to tell his slanted version of the truth as well where he also had no clue about anything other than DM gave him a toolbox. It took MM's arrest for her to offer up a bit of what she knew about the crime with a lot of "I don't know, I don't remember and I didn't asks" and CN's arrest a year later for what I expect to be more of the same. SS's testimony was also a joke and I guess there was no point even trying to find out what MB eventually knew and it appears she was not subpoenaed.

MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

Haha, this is exactly why I keep harping on this issue. There are three possibilities here:

1. She's making up a story. Is there any incentive for her to do so? The defense will surely be all over her, right?
2. She's correct, and Millard's picture was in fact shown on the news on Friday, May 10. However, most people are certain that Millard's name didn't come out until the 11th.
3. Her memory of the events is blurry and she didn't actually see his face on the TV until a later date.

Which do you think is most plausible?

Can anyone here contact CHCH news to find out when the news station heard that DM was arrested?They played those little
news teasers before the 11 pm newscast all the time as I recall when I used to watch tv. MM might have been referring to one of those teasers.

 

[Elisabeth]

"They just told me they were going for a test drive and might steal a truck."
by Adam Carter 11:02 AM

"I already told them they shouldn't go, but nobody listened to me," she says.
by Adam Carter 11:02 AM

"I said some things to him to try to change his mind, but nothing changed his mind."
by Adam Carter 11:03 AM

did they ask AM what she said?

Just wondering/speculating. I know nothing of legal strategy.

 

[ellie b]

Haha, this is exactly why I keep harping on this issue. There are three possibilities here:

1. She's making up a story. Is there any incentive for her to do so? The defense will surely be all over her, right?
2. She's correct and Millard's picture was in fact shown on the news on Friday, May 10. However, most people are certain that Millard's name didn't come out until the 11th.
3. Her memory of the events is blurry and she didn't actually see his face on the TV until a later date.

Which do you think is most plausible?

I think probably her memory of events is blurry.........could it have been a news piece about the ambition tattoo that she actually saw, put 2+2 together ? Meanwhile MS gets word on DM's arrest from somewhere (my guess is CN) ???

 

[flipflop]

I don't think MM is lying. Her testimony seems to coincide with AM's testimony.

I also recall there was at least one report of a neighbour saying that LE had been at the Roseville farm since Friday (didn't say what time). After DM was arrested on Cawthra, I suspect he was allowed a phone call (whether to MB, CN, lawyer), and that started the word spreading like lightning.

From SC's tweet summary starting at line 3709:

and AM is the only one that MM mentions that she is still friends with.....hmmmm

 

[ArianeEmory]

If MM is intentionally lying about seeing DM on the news on May 10, what does that accomplish for anyone? I mean, she's pretty much admitted she knew they were going to steal a truck, she's admitted she knew Tim was murdered, she's admitted she should have gone to the police and didn't.

I feel like she is weirdly being held to a higher standard here than "the boys" (AM, MH, SS) were, even though she was practically a baby compared to them, especially SS. Let's not do that.

 

[paris_paris]

From Tim's very first thread. There was a press conference held on May 10th at 11:30 a.m. First mention of the tattoo was at the presser.

- cell phone found

- Bosma's vehicle was seen on Monday in Brantford

- LE requesting for video surveillance from busnesses

- cell phone records were found from the perps

- description given by vehicle owner in Toronto

- LE giving descriptions again (same as we know)

- TATTOO "Ambition" on wrist where one wears a watch ON ONE PERP

- TATTOO IS UNIQUE BECAUSE IT'S FRAMED IN A BOX

 

[Elisabeth]

Both 'your friend' and not using the short form imply a sense of distance. Lots of reason for it. There didn't seem to be particular closeness with DM, or with his girlfriend. MM didn't feel respected by him and probably with cause ("Marlena's a child"..) There may have even been a sense of jealousy or discomfort with the closeness of the relationship between MS and DM given the way she described MS being in love with him.

and maybe MM recognized an abusive personality in DM....speculating

 

[Elisabeth]

If MM is intentionally lying about seeing DM on the news on May 10, what does that accomplish for anyone? I mean, she's pretty much admitted she knew they were going to steal a truck, she's admitted she knew Tim was murdered, she's admitted she should have gone to the police and didn't.

I feel like she is weirdly being held to a higher standard here than "the boys" (AM, MH, SS) were, even though she was practically a baby compared to them, especially SS. Let's not do that.

I too don't place importance on this lie. She probably saw DM's picture plastered all over tv shortly afterwards and it all blended together. Not making excuses for her not going to LE but her testimony in this matter doesn't taint the rest of her testimony in my eyes...

 

[billandrew]

I don't think MM is lying. Her testimony seems to coincide with AM's testimony.

I also recall there was at least one report of a neighbour saying that LE had been at the Roseville farm since Friday (didn't say what time). After DM was arrested on Cawthra, I suspect he was allowed a phone call (whether to MB, CN, lawyer), and that started the word spreading like lightning.

From SC's tweet summary starting at line 3709:

I also have a feeling that MM isn't lying, but it's peculiar how conveniently wrong she is about seeing Millard's face on TV on May 10.

If Millard contacted his lawyer (or anyone else) shortly after being arrested, one of his first instructions to that person could have been to notify Smich immediately about the arrest. And, Millard would have been able to notify them that Smich could only be reached through Meneses's phone. I think this is a very plausible explanation as to how Smich was notified, but it still leaves me wondering: why would Meneses provide a completely different explanation? Surely her memory wouldn't be that blurry.

 

[JuneBug67]

I don't know if MM is lying or simply mis-remembering. However, would it be in her statement that she gave just 2 weeks after the fact? I can understand mis-remembering after 3 years, but at just 2 weeks out she'd know exactly what day it was. Yet, I can't reconcile her statement with what was in the MSM at the time. Nor can I discount it since the phone records actually do reconcile with what she's said.

I do have a hunch though, that the cross by the defense is going to be all over this if in fact the media did NOT report of his arrest until the Saturday. For no other reason than to present her to the jury as an unreliable witness.

moo

What confuses me a little is if in fact it is true that MM is presenting a fact that cannot be true, is the Crown not aware of that as well, and if so why wouldn't that be brought out and 'softened' on direct rather than leaving it to the other side? Perhaps there are some rules of evidence or leading or something that would prevent that? It seems to me it must either be that, or we have missed something or incorrectly interpreted something else.

 

[Just4TB]

I don't think MM was arrested. I believe SC's recent, direct, clear post over a passing word AC's article.

Both Adam Carter and Susan Clairmont each independently reported on Feb 24 that MS and MM were arrested. I've earlier linked the AC source, here is the SC source.
Tweet by SC on Feb 24 2016... reporting on Sgt Oxley testimony regarding MS arrest... during the RP cross...

(Susan Clairmont via Twitter) Pillay asking about Smich's utterance to Meneses. Both under arrest at the time. Smich yelling to her:"Don't tell them anything babe."

 

[Arnie M]

.

I think the first arrest news was from Hamilton Police at 8:43 AM - 11 May 2013


[video=twitter;333245913264951297]https://twitter.com/CBCHamilton/status/333245913264951297[/video]

 

[leafs_fan93]

Was MS telling MM that he wasn't in or near the truck when DM shot TB? That's what I'm taking away from this. MS was driving the Yukon when TB was shot? MOO.

This is also how I took it.

I'm also wondering if MS's "I ****** up" comments meant he screwed up in not listening to his girlfriend, who we now know tried to talk him out of it all together.

 

[Kamille]

I also have a feeling that MM isn't lying, but it's peculiar how conveniently wrong she is about seeing Millard's face on TV on May 10.

If Millard contacted his lawyer (or anyone else) shortly after being arrested, one of his first instructions could have been to notify Smich immediately. And, Millard would would have been able to notify them that Smich could only be reached through Meneses's phone at that time. I think this is a very plausible explanation as to how Smich was notified, but it still leaves me wondering: why would Meneses provide a completely different explanation?

Because the real explanation of how they found out about DM's arrest likely includes the tale of cover up and lies that they all went into after getting this news. So at the time of her arrest, she probably did not want to throw other names out there and just came up with that explanation as the way she found out about the arrest.

She was probably trying to protect the person who called her or MS. Which IMO was likely CN. She also apparently told LE that she was not a friend of CN and came across like she barely knew her. Hard to believe after finding out how close their boyfriends were. I'm sure they hung out together many times. Especially when MS and MM lived at Maplegate. I find it odd that she distanced herself from CN like that. At this point, I think she is just sticking to her original statement so that DM's defense cannot grill her about telling lies if she chose to change it. Plus changing it would open another can of worms regarding the actions, or lies, of some of the others IMO.

The person who called her or MS to tell them of DM's arrest was basically warning MS because they most likely knew he was the other suspect. That person may have actually passed on the instructions about getting the drugs out of the house and the gun away from MH. So there may be a reason why MM did not want to tell LE the truth about how they found out about DM's arrest. And since AM had already told LE that he found out about DM's arrest from MS, they had to come up with a story of how they found out.

I don't think she's lied about any of her other testimony. I do believe she's left a lot out though.

MOO

 

[hopingforjustice]

Fraser now resuming his questions.
by Adam Carter 11:46 AM

Fraser now showing her one of her police statement's from April 16 of this year to refresh her memory.
by Adam Carter 11:48 AM

This was part of the witness preparation process.
by Adam Carter 11:48 AM

BBM

I am anticipating a big deal from the MS team noting differences in her "just this week" statement compared to her statement taken immediately after the arrest.

 

[MorningStar22]

Haha, this is exactly why I keep harping on this issue. There are three possibilities here:

1. She's making up a story. Is there any incentive for her to do so? The defense will surely be all over her, right?
2. She's correct and Millard's picture was in fact shown on the news on Friday, May 10. However, most people are certain that Millard's name didn't come out until the 11th.
3. Her memory of the events is blurry and she didn't actually see his face on the TV until a later date.

Which do you think is most plausible?

Isn't it odd that her story and AM's story line up, and AM was the only one that knew DM was arrested bc, IIRC, the cops next stop was their house? And also odd that MM and AM are still friends to this day. Perhaps it was AM that called MM's phone to alert them? When did AM's calls start that we know of?

 

[Stratocaster]

Now getting deep into the trial with the presented evidence of the co-accused activities/interests, over the course of their early-mid-late twenties, I would like to send a big shout-out to my parents for raising me the right way, setting life goals, and knowing wrong from right. RIP Tim Bosma, this shouldn't have happened.