Bosma Murder Trial 05.11.16 - Day 47 - Smich Defence commences

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The logic why I do not believe MS testimony, and why I think MS was in the truck when TB was shot:
If the original plan was that MS would follow in the Yukon, why did he even walk up the driveway? MS could have stayed in the Yukon, and only then would MS testimony from today be somewhat believable to me.
Anyone have an answer for this?

Very good Q. I see two explanations.

1. He really thought it's scouting and wanted to see the lay of the land and DM wanted to get MS in a situation where MS couldn't just say "Cya, ciao, aufwiedersein, do svidanya, hasta la vista. I'm off. Nobody saw me there, I don't wanna have anything to do with that."
2. He was supposed to help incapacitate
 
Of course his matches the evidence. None of the other witnesses were allowed to be present for the others' testimonies. MS was present for all of them. He knows how he needs to put the story together to make himself look innocent. IMO

I don't think TD would rely on MS's memory. This decision to take the stand with this much evidence requires a person with hyperthymesia to keep it straight. Yes he has been present for all of the evidence, but any slips in lying will be tested during cross examination.

We can only hope he is telling the truth, but today was just the introductory chapter. Lots more to come.

MOO
 
I like the sound of that. But MS should stop immediately and DM should start. DM shouldn't get the last word.

Yeah, well, court doesn't work that way.

MS will testify and call any witnesses; there will be legal arguments over DM's application; if he is successful, he will then testify/call witnesses.
 
I have to give MS at least some credit for manning up and telling his version of what happened that night, but I still think he is a who should spend the rest of his life behind bars. He told the jury what they wanted to hear, and I am guessing that DM’s dogs are going to be all over him like a bad rash in cross.

IMHO, MS is telling some of the truth, perhaps even most of it. I think he is conveniently leaving out crucial details of his involvement. I guess if I was on a first degree murder rap, I, like most of us, would do what I can to avoid life without a chance of parole for 25 years.

That said, a few things really bothering me about today’s testimony:

  • MS says this was only supposed to be scoping out a truck for a potential robbery. They even hide the Yukon so no one can recognize the vehicle or read the plates. But don’t you raise more suspicion, by walking up a long driveway, essentially in the dark, on a Monday night after 9 pm for a test drive, a car nowhere to be found despite being out in a rural area? I know the Tim Horton’s story that was told in front of SB and WDB, but if the plan is to steal the vehicle later that night (or even if it is to steal it at gunpoint and leave Tim unharmed), TB has his phone and can tell police about the calls from the Bate phone. Surely these idiots knew that, so hiding the Yukon was both unnecessary and likely threw up red flags right away? That is why I still believe murder was part of the plan, and it was premeditated. They didn't want anyone to ID their vehicle, because if they liked the truck, TB (and his phone) was never coming back up that driveway.


  • I still don’t understand how the whole “my friend can’t find Tim Horton’s” story (one TH is about two minutes away), finding the “friend” parked in a field and then going out to Brantford didn’t raise red flags with TB. Why not just take the truck up Trinity, across Book, over to Wilson, etc...???? That is assuming TB was still alive, of course. That is why I questions MS’s story of how it all went down. He was the father of a young daughter, who was a mere couple of hundred yards away. Surely, he was cautious of what was playing out and was starting to put the pieces together. Why go for a ride to Brantford unless it was against his will? So they didn’t have to come back to Ancaster, and MS and DM could leave in the Yukon and TB could drive his truck home? But, Tim already knew they were “coming from Toronto.” Ancaster wasn’t exactly out of the way on the way back. It isn’t adding up. Of course, that is assuming MS is telling the truth and he learned of the shooting when they pulled over in Brantford.


  • MS couldn’t move Tim’s body, partly because of his shoulder and partly because he did not want to, but had no problem partying it up in the following days, including at his sister’s wedding, smiling with a cigar hanging out of his mouth. He wasn’t as distraught as he wants everyone to believe. A distraught man would have gone to the police before being arrested in broad daylight a couple of weeks later. He was just well coached today. He is still a d-bag, and even if his account told today is true, he was still involved in a planned robbery that led to a murder.

That said, and as much as it pains to say it, the timelines at the Brantford Bobcat seem to line up. Unless I am mistaken, they pull over at 9:49 and leave around 10:04. Tim’s phone was apparently turned off at 10:02.

I think, for the most part, MS is telling the truth about pulling over on Oak Park. That would give him about 15 minutes to see what had happened (whether he knew the murder was coming or not), change the plates, and leave the scene, discarding the phone out the window.

Speaking of which, how incredibly stupid were these two? With Tim now dead, they throw his phone out a window ONTO THE FREAKING GRASS instead of smashing it to bits and getting rid of it forever? Really? Did they not think it would be found, especially given the news that was sure to hit TV the following day? That the first thing police would do was turn the phone on and trace its last known calls, to see if there was any connection to a missing man 20 minutes away, and that the phone would be tied to the Lucas Bate phone? Did they not think the police would be looking at that right away, and be able to trace its whereabouts? For “career criminals”, these two sure were a couple of ****ups.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions, and I have a feeling we are going to get a lot of answers in the next couple of days. I also think, for whatever reason, CN and some of the players in this motley crew of misfits might be feeling quite nervous this evening. The lies are going to start catching up to some of them very shortly....

I pray for the Bosma family tonight. Even though Tim has been gone for three years, today’s testimony must have hit with the force of a sledgehammer in its finality.

All MOO.

I think this is absolutely key for everyone to understand. Of course he's leaving gaps! It's not up to MS to fill those gaps...IT IS up to the Crown to fill to those gaps in order to PROVE their case.

So far, IMO, the Crown has not filled those gaps yet, but may well do so in cross-x, which is their last chance. If they don't fill those gaps in cross-x, IMO MS walks away on a much smaller charge/conviction.
 
Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 21m21 minutes ago
Legal experts say #Smich's new evidence could mean #Millard could re-open case and testify. Latest on #Bosma murder trial @CTVNationalNews

Link to the original article, please ?
 
I'm wondering the same. I don't know much about guns but I've watched movies. Regardless who shot TB and sorry to sound graphic but at point blank range that close would it not have blown part of his head off and left brain matter? That would have caused a huge mess even on DM. Makes me sick to think about

They would for sure if they were HPs, which, IIRC from earlier evidence, they likely were.
 
Of course his matches the evidence. None of the other witnesses were allowed to be present for the others' testimonies. MS was present for all of them. He knows how he needs to put the story together to make himself look innocent. IMO

I found many of MS's statements freakishly similar, if not exactly the same, as previously presented testimony. In fact, he mirrored MM's testimony almost verbatim. He's been studying and he has been well schooled. Some of the lies will unravel on cross. Pillay will be walking through a minefield and will have to be careful and The Crown gets to go head on. We'll see how well rehearsed he is when the hard questions come at him. That's what I'm waiting for.

Once again, waiting for the truth to prevail. :waiting:
 
Im wondering what evidence is on MS for LB'S murder.

Also, I believe most of his testimony except for "he didn't help put TB'S body in the incinerator due to his arm" because he said "he helped remove the seats" That Seat assembly is awkward and heavy! They removed it in one piece according to the exhibit photos.

But it wasn't because of his arm. It was because he didn't want to get involved with that, he used his arm as an excuse to get out of it. (That's how I read it)
 
Just continuing off your post ..

No doubt we'll hear more about the need for a change of clothes. There is no evidence to show that extra clothing was discussed in any mission prior to their preparations for the murder. They just hooked up their booty and took off in the clothing that they were wearing.

But, MS and DM needed to bring along a change of clothing for the murder mission because they knew their clothes would become contaminated with evidence and would be burned. It wouldn't be good enough to have a change of clothing waiting for them at the hanger, because, this time, their mission was unique. They were not heading right back to the hanger. And, imo, they both knew it and were prepared for it.

Actually, there was.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9h9 hours ago
Dungey asks about text from Millard that day re: mission day, bring a change of clothes. Smich says that might've been on May 5.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9h9 hours ago
Dungey asks why they'd bring a change of clothes. He says in case they did steal it.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9h9 hours ago
"You're not gonna go back in the same clothes you're wearing to steal a vehicle," he says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9h9 hours ago
Dungey suggests he means so they wouldn't be recognized as the guys who were there previously. Smich agrees.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9h9 hours ago
They'd done this before on missions.
 
Who is MB? I also don't recall it being testified to that TB was in the incinerator during the drive from farm to hangar. Do you mean MS? If so, I will search the tweets. TY!

Well if it was MS in the incinerator, I think we'd probably be all happier today.
 
Please correct me where I am wrong in the following sequence.

1) All three get in the truck. DM in the drivers seat, TB in the passenger seat, and MS in the back.
2) They drive some distance, and DM abruptly brakes and says their friend could not find Tim Hortons. How did he know? Was he on the phone faking it?

MOO

Interestingly, Lisa Whidden texted him about that time, so gave him fake thing to read...(all the time stamps are a big screwy though, aren't they?)

SC Tweet
"Whidden back on stand. Leitch showing her previous exhibit regarding text locations map. She sent text to Millard at 9:44 pm May 6, 2013. Mar 22, 2016
This was just after #Bosma left his Ancaster home for test drive with two men. Mar 22, 2016
Millard texted her back. Mar 22, 2016
 
I found many of MS's statements freakishly similar, if not exactly the same, as previously presented testimony. In fact, he mirrored MM's testimony almost verbatim. He's been studying and he has been well schooled. Some of the lies will unravel on cross. Pillay will be walking through a minefield and will have to be careful and The Crown gets to go head on. We'll see how well rehearsed he is when the hard questions come at him. That's what I'm waiting for.

Once again, waiting for the truth to prevail. :waiting:

Pillay will certainly have to be careful. And I'm sure it'll be tricky. Especially if he wants to point out that MS knew about the plan all along because then he'd have to be careful not to implicate DM even more IMO.
 
So...DM made a trip with the Yukon to the gas station for gas, prior to lighting the incinerator. Did DM fill a gas can and pour some gas into the incinerator as an accelerate? Is that why there was a big flare up seen in the video? Perhaps there wasn't much propane in the tank so DM thought gas would accelerate the burning process? I don't mean to make things sounds worse or more bizarre and disturbing than they already are, but in all seriousness who the hell would be concerned about going to get gas in their truck when there is a murdered man lying inside an incinerator outside the hangar door?! SMH. Wonder if LE checked gas stations for video evidence? No video IMO means MS likely didn't make a statement to LE after his arrest or the video had been recorded over. MOO.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6h6 hours ago
Smich says he got an exacto knife out of the Yukon and cut out the carpet, the seatbelts, while Millard left to get gas for the Yukon

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6h6 hours ago
"He went and turned on the Eliminator," Smich says.

It's almost like he's read our WS posts guessing why he left for 30 min. lol Those gas videos would be long gone by now. I wonder if LE looked for cameras that direction?
 
2) As they were exiting the driveway DM reached in his pocket (and swerved a bit) and said he had just got the text from his buddy...who could not find Tim Hortons.

Thanks

Millard hit the brakes, and said his friend couldn't find Tim Hortons and he was around the corner. Then they drove around the corner.
by Adam Carter 12:28 PM

So did this happen at the end of the driveway. I thought they drove past the Super Soaker and then turned back?
 
So what is the new evidence ? Assuming that all parties had access to the police statements and assuming that Smich's police statement matches his testimony, where is the new evidence ?

So how would this work ? This trial goes to completion, complete with a verdict and sentencing and then DM applies to have it reopened after the fact for another verdict and sentencing ? And if DM injects a bunch of new evidence, then MS can apply to have it opened again ?

I'd like to see the judge allow DM to testify at this trial, before the verdict. I think MS should stop and DM should be put on the stand at this point.

Sooner or later one of these idiots is going to implicate CN deeper into this mess.

Let the good times roll ! By the time this is all done, all three of the main characters (DM, CN, and MS) will get life and the rest will get smaller sentences.


Do you think Dungey will produce the gun as new evidence? I don't believe that MS ever provided a statement to LE. I think he like Dellen remained silent until today, other than what he told Dungey.

I think Dungey will continue to ask MS questions he thinks DM's legal team and the crown may ask to get it all out there.

This is a horrific crime that could have happened to any of us who had something DM felt entitled to.

I believe both are quilty, but not to what degree until all the parties have rested. I hope CN gets a reality check with her upcoming trial.

All just my opinion.

Thoughts and prayers to the Bosmas
 
Yes quite remarkable. However what amazes me is that with all the experience these morons had with security cameras and evading detection, they stop in front of a well illuminated business with security cameras, to commit a crime unrelated to that business itself. Cops should tack on a 1st Degree Dumbass charge onto the murder 1.

The BobCat dealership video is Karma, for stealing the bobcat on a previous Mission!!!
 
Smich testifies that they wanted to paint the truck red and switch the VIN. I find it hard to believe that anyone could be that stupid. The red truck was a dually. TB's truck was a single rear wheel. The red truck is a long box, longer wheelbase. TB's truck is a short wheelbase. The red truck was a gasser. TB's truck was a diesel. The red truck probably had a commercial plate, which means it gets inspected, which means someone writes down the VIN. Sooner or later DM will get in trouble owning that truck. It is obviously hot and not correct for its VIN. It is obvious to anyone who knows these trucks.

So the VIN switch strategy probably wasn't in the cards in the initial plan. It came about when DM was stuck with the truck, as a way to hide it. So if the VIN switch wasn't the first plan, what was the first plan ?

And why did DM hide the trailer at his mothers ? Why didn't he park it at an RV storage place where it wouldn't be conspicuous, especially if it was going to contain something hot ? Me thinks he didn't ever plan for it to contain something hot. Me thinks putting TB's truck in the trailer was a backup plan.

I wonder what other missions his friends know about.

me thinks you like to say me thinks.

"And why did DM hide the trailer at his mothers ? Why didn't he park it at an RV storage place where it wouldn't be conspicuous, especially if it was going to contain something hot ? Me thinks he didn't ever plan for it to contain something hot. Me thinks putting TB's truck in the trailer was a backup plan."

MS testified that when they returned to the hangar in the light of day...(on the 9th I believe) there was some "discussion" that had Millard scared that AJ had called the cops on them, so it was reactive/rushed to get the truck away.
 
Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 21m21 minutes ago
Legal experts say #Smich's new evidence could mean #Millard could re-open case and testify. Latest on #Bosma murder trial @CTVNationalNews

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 18m18 minutes ago
That's what the president of the Hamilton Criminal Defence Lawyers' Association says

Further to that:
A Hamilton lawyer has been retained by accused serial killer Dellen Millard.

Peter Boushy, current president of the Hamilton Criminal Lawyers' Association, will act as Millard's counsel at the preliminary hearing on the first-degree murder charge of killing his father.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...n-millard-hires-hamilton-lawyer-peter-boushy/
 
MS never made a police statement. All of his testimony today was new evidence.

DM would simply be allowed to call witnesses before the case went to the jury.

Are we sure about that? Didn't one of DM's letters say that MS got himself arrested by trying to put all the blame on him? Coincidence? I guess his statement could have just been that DM did it and he wasn't even there.
 
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