Bosma Murder Trial 05.17.16 - Day 50

[Prairie_dawg]

Maybe the gun was buried somewhere on 'Pacific' rd in Oakville, its on the south side of the QEW in Glen Abbey...however its all industrial, and a stretch at best and all my own speculative idea. Take it with a HUGE grain of salt. However if I lived near here I would take my metal detector around any green space on this road. JMO

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/760+Pacific+Rd,+Oakville,+ON+L6L+6M4/@43.4127376,-79.7352335,305m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x882b5df94326b0ab:0x6985551a012c0605!8m2!3d43.4115455!4d-79.7337192

 

[MorningStar22]

Don't count on it. If Millard was involved it would be in this trial.

I'm waiting for disclosure to come out (granted, that will likely take a while). Prefer not to speculate - I don't have all the answers and don't want to guess...

 

[Ontario Mom]

Despite the fact that I (mostly) believe MS's version of events (the gun story is exempt, I just don't know about all that), I do think TD is going to advise him to keep his smart-mouth comments out of it. I suspect, if he IS innocent of shooting/planning to shoot TB, this reaction of his is simply a matter of being fed up with being accused of something he didn't do and facing a sentence for something he didn't do. In which case, it's a natural reaction, although not a well-advised one.

moo.

 

[TOR]

At the same time, he's been sitting in court for the last 3.5 months listening to all this evidence and if what he is saying is true, I can see how he would be upset and frustrated and snippy with Sachak. If someone was talking to me the way Sachak is talking to MS, I would likely be throwing back some quick remarks as well. He's had a long time to listen to DM's team try and throw him under the bus. He's doing very well on keeping himself together and whether he was trained well by Dungey or he's just genuinely telling the truth, I can't say for sure. But I do enjoy the snap backs to Sachak IMO He's had it coming tbh

Yeah I can't say I'd be so composed if I was getting that circus treatment of a defense cross examination. I would have been frustrated and snapped by now. He's still surprisingly composed. He clearly understands the gravity of this situation. Side note - I can't help but wonder what it's like if you *were* innocent and getting bombarded like that with asinine questions, how do you not leap out of your chair and scream "enough! Im innocent! Why won't anyone listen to me! There's no evidence - how's this happening?!?!"

 

[andreww]

I find Sachak a rather clumsy lawyer, but IMO he is making points to the jury - of more benefit to the Crown's case than his own, that's for sure. Whether that was his intention or not, he is showing here the 'predator food chain'. DM with control over MS: MS with control over Arthur, and on it goes. I think he has proved today that MS is no 'weak little amateur drug dealing follower'. One would expect being on the stand for 1st degree murder to be 'shocking, scary and confusing'. Seems MS isn't phased by it one little bit.

He shouldn't be phased. The case against Smich is weak at best. Don't get me wrong, I still think he is guilty, but 90% of evidence presented centred on Millard, and only a little bit of video and some texts pointing at Smich. But lets not forget, Sachak hasn't even touched on the most damning evidence against Smich, the "fireworks/sausage/furniture/tape/clothes" texts. But you have to wonder if he'll even bring that up as it was his client Smich was discussing those things with. Basically Smich would look guilty for texting those things, but it would show Millard is every bit as guilty as well.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Maybe the gun was buried somewhere on 'Pacific' rd in Oakville, its on the south side of the QEW in Glen Abbey...however its all industrial, and a stretch at best and all my own speculative idea. Take it with a HUGE grain of salt. However if I lived near here I would take my metal detector around any green space on this road. JMO

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/760+Pacific+Rd,+Oakville,+ON+L6L+6M4/@43.4127376,-79.7352335,305m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x882b5df94326b0ab:0x6985551a012c0605!8m2!3d43.4115455!4d-79.7337192

If I lived anywhere near the area, I'd go buy a metal detector just to look for that gun. I'd be willing to bet there are actually people out there right now, doing exactly that. IF he did bury it and no one else dug it up yet, someone's going to find it. Might not be this week or even this year, but people will keep looking until it's found.

 

[canadiangirl]

If I lived anywhere near the area, I'd go buy a metal detector just to look for that gun. I'd be willing to bet there are actually people out there right now, doing exactly that. IF he did bury it and no one else dug it up yet, someone's going to find it. Might not be this week or even this year, but people will keep looking until it's found.

Ugh I would not want to be looking for the gun being a regular person. No way I'd want to get dragged into this circus. Let sleeping dogs lie. IMO

 

[sleuther76]

MS has maintained his composure well during the cross-examine by Sachak. However, his cool confidence and snappy responses are not consistent with the "scared, innocent dupe" or "thief but not a killer" image that he has tried to portray to the jury. He's showing that he's not easily swayed by authority, and likewise I doubt that he would have been a pushover for DM either. His version of the events of May 6, 2013 lacks any credibility IMO because he has had the advantage of fitting a story to the admissible evidence. It's more likely IMO that MS was a willing co-participant in the murder of TB, and his testimony is a last-ditch effort to weasel his way out of it.

To be honest, the reason I believe MS's story is that Pillay entered evidence in to debunk MS's story even before he heard his testimony (i.e. the Super Sucker Surveillance footage and Pedo never being left alone with MS). This suggests to me that DM's defense knew the true series of events well in advance and has tried to enter evidence into the pool in order to discredit MS even before he testified. MOO

 

[Nosey Parker]

He shouldn't be phased. The case against Smich is weak at best. Don't get me wrong, I still think he is guilty, but 90% of evidence presented centred on Millard, and only a little bit of video and some texts pointing at Smich. But lets not forget, Sachak hasn't even touched on the most damning evidence against Smich, the "fireworks/sausage/furniture/tape/clothes" texts. But you have to wonder if he'll even bring that up as it was his client Smich was discussing those things with. Basically Smich would look guilty for texting those things, but it would show Millard is every bit as guilty as well.

... and that's his dilemma. But it's not the Crown's!

 

[RandomName479]

Despite the fact that I (mostly) believe MS's version of events (the gun story is exempt, I just don't know about all that), I do think TD is going to advise him to keep his smart-mouth comments out of it. I suspect, if he IS innocent of shooting/planning to shoot TB, this reaction of his is simply a matter of being fed up with being accused of something he didn't do and facing a sentence for something he didn't do. In which case, it's a natural reaction, although not a well-advised one.

moo.

My thoughts exactly. I will admit to enjoying some of his smart *advertiser censored* comments.....mostly because DM's defense team is so slow to get to any point IMO and says some really inappropriate things...but MS needs to tone down the attitude. Still on the fence, but I can't imagine I would hold up this well under a cross examination.....he is mostly maintaining his composure (and actually frustrating NS) and sticking to his story. (yes - admit it could just be a story.....that's not my point). MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

To be honest, the reason I believe MS's story is that Pillay entered evidence in to debunk MS's story even before he heard his testimony (i.e. the Super Sucker Surveillance footage and Pedo never being left alone with MS). This suggests to me that DM's defense knew the true series of events well in advance and has tried to enter evidence into the pool in order to discredit MS even before he testified. MOO

Yes, and even the importance of the satchel didn't really have serious meaning until MS's testimony. Are these part of a statement that DM referred to in his letters?

MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Yeah I can't say I'd be so composed if I was getting that circus treatment of a defense cross examination. I would have been frustrated and snapped by now. He's still surprisingly composed. He clearly understands the gravity of this situation. Side note - I can't help but wonder what it's like if you *were* innocent and getting bombarded like that with asinine questions, how do you not leap out of your chair and scream "enough! Im innocent! Why won't anyone listen to me! There's no evidence - how's this happening?!?!"

I'm very close to someone who actually did go through exactly that - a former cop, falsely accused of some pretty serious garbage. He finally got fed up on the stand and started twisting the attorney's words back at him. Big mistake Less than a few days after he was found guilty (no physical evidence, just witness testimony), the person who originally accused him & filed charges was seen/heard laughing about it at a bar (by several off duty cops & wives) and saying how easy it was to lie and get a massive settlement from the city. Everyone said (at the time) if he'd have just kept his cool, it probably wouldn't have gone in her favor.

 

[Miranda16]

Maybe the gun was buried somewhere on 'Pacific' rd in Oakville, its on the south side of the QEW in Glen Abbey...however its all industrial, and a stretch at best and all my own speculative idea. Take it with a HUGE grain of salt. However if I lived near here I would take my metal detector around any green space on this road. JMO

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/760+Pacific+Rd,+Oakville,+ON+L6L+6M4/@43.4127376,-79.7352335,305m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x882b5df94326b0ab:0x6985551a012c0605!8m2!3d43.4115455!4d-79.7337192

more likely along 16 mile creek in my opinion. Most likely place where he could bury it well back from a trail would be in the larger forested area between Neyagawa on one side and westoak trail and St V' cemetery on the other. Most forested areas in Oakville are relatively narrow strips, but the area I mentioned is considerably larger and within 5-10 minutes on bike from his Mom's house.
Im not convinced he buried it though. I tend to believe he may have passed it back to someone like MWJ as someone suggested.
ETA. I was thinking before that it was 2 guns. That could explain why he refuses to give up the location, but I don't understand why they didn't call Arthur to testify. That could potentially indicate whether it was really one gun (if he was truthful). I think I recall MS saying yesterday that he couldn't see the city lights but could see the stars from the place he buried it? Came across as dubious since you can easily see houses from most trails in Oakville, but in the larger area I pointed out there are some spots where you can at least pretend you're in a forest!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Don't count on it. If Millard was involved it would be in this trial.

Just weird it's been mentioned so mamy times but nothing ever became of it. I'd think LE needs to keep something on CN? Or Could that evidence be used at both trials?

 

[spanishshara]

MS has maintained his composure well during the cross-examine by Sachak. However, his cool confidence and snappy responses are not consistent with the "scared, innocent dupe" or "thief but not a killer" image that he has tried to portray to the jury. He's showing that he's not easily swayed by authority, and likewise I doubt that he would have been a pushover for DM either. His version of the events of May 6, 2013 lacks any credibility IMO because he has had the advantage of fitting a story to the admissible evidence. It's more likely IMO that MS was a willing co-participant in the murder of TB, and his testimony is a last-ditch effort to weasel his way out of it.

I disagree to a certain extent. Sachak doesn't seem to be taking his job very seriously and keeps reaching for ridiculous hypotheticals to create reasonable doubt. Even the judge seems irritated at times. If someone badgers you enough, you might say something back. Yes he's on the stand and he shouldn't - but I'm not that surprised in all honesty. I'm not sure that necessarily shows that he wasn't scared of DM. Perhaps it does end up being effective to the jury but just from my POV it doesn't really tell me much about the dynamic between MS and DM's friendship.

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

Maybe the gun was buried somewhere on 'Pacific' rd in Oakville, its on the south side of the QEW in Glen Abbey...however its all industrial, and a stretch at best and all my own speculative idea. Take it with a HUGE grain of salt. However if I lived near here I would take my metal detector around any green space on this road. JMO

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/760+Pacific+Rd,+Oakville,+ON+L6L+6M4/@43.4127376,-79.7352335,305m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x882b5df94326b0ab:0x6985551a012c0605!8m2!3d43.4115455!4d-79.7337192

not a bad idea - but as someone from the area I can tell you that area is crawling with Halton PD as well as CN rail cops, I am not sure if it really fits the forest description. It's also quite a bike ride to make, especially on a smaller BMX bike. If we are looking that far east - i would imagine the forest surrounding the bronte creek would be a better and more isolated spot.

My best guess would be somewhere closer to MS home - there are tons of parks and trails all over the area - I am going to speculate on this park in particular - as it is a little bigger than the rest in the area - https://www.google.ca/maps/place/43...m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d43.456098!4d-79.744239

I did see police searching the whole area with police dogs during the earlier stages of the investigation, so they have cleared checked off many of these boxes already.

 

[loveisthemovement]

I'd be interested to know what the judge's demeanor is towards Sachak, if there is anything to perceive at all, from someone who is in the courtroom today.

 

[littlesauce]

Yeah I can't say I'd be so composed if I was getting that circus treatment of a defense cross examination. I would have been frustrated and snapped by now. He's still surprisingly composed. He clearly understands the gravity of this situation. Side note - I can't help but wonder what it's like if you *were* innocent and getting bombarded like that with asinine questions, how do you not leap out of your chair and scream "enough! Im innocent! Why won't anyone listen to me! There's no evidence - how's this happening?!?!"

Exactly! I think being in jail for so long has probably gotten him past that panic of "I'm innocent! What is going on????" (if he is innocent), now he's just in it for the long haul and trying to make the best of it. He has nothing to lose by testifying and if anything this testimony will likely end up doing him good in the end if the jury believes him.

 

[spanishshara]

not a bad idea - but as someone from the area I can tell you that area is crawling with Halton PD as well as CN rail cops, I am not sure if it really fits the forest description. It's also quite a bike ride to make, especially on a smaller BMX bike. If we are looking that far east - i would imagine the forest surrounding the bronte creek would be a better and more isolated spot.

My best guess would be somewhere closer to MS home - there are tons of parks and trails all over the area - I am going to speculate on this park in particular - as it is a little bigger than the rest in the area - https://www.google.ca/maps/place/43...m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d43.456098!4d-79.744239

I did see police searching the whole area with police dogs during the earlier stages of the investigation, so they have cleared checked off many of these boxes already.

If the gun really was buried I wouldn't be surprised if randomly even several years from now somebody ends up finding it. Perhaps even just by accident. Especially with the way ecosystems shift, rain, snow, etc.

 

[redheart]

I disagree to a certain extent. Sachak doesn't seem to be taking his job very seriously and keeps reaching for ridiculous hypotheticals to create reasonable doubt. Even the judge seems irritated at times. If someone badgers you enough, you might say something back. Yes he's on the stand and he shouldn't - but I'm not that surprised in all honesty. I'm not sure that necessarily shows that he wasn't scared of DM. Perhaps it does end up being effective to the jury but just from my POV it doesn't really tell me much about the dynamic between MS and DM's friendship.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like Sachak. But....

Someone tweeted:
@susanclairmont I understand Sachak is trying to make a point but to me he is also making a mockery of this trial and what we're here for..

Response:
‏@susanclairmont Susan Clairmont
Not true. His style is different, but he is eliciting info/reactions from Smich.

Someone else tweeted:
@susanclairmont I don't see why the judge allows this garbage to continue. It's only hurting DM's case.

Susan's response:
You may not like Sachak's style but it is legally sound and, one can argue, effective.