Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Sphinx]

Digging around in the old articles there was 1 neighbor (Bob D.) who mentioned seeing the trailer actually being pulled into the driveway Wednesday night while him and his son were watching the game. According to this http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20122013/GS030144.HTM the game started just after 7 and ended just past 10:20.

Yet AJ says he took those pics & phoned in the VIN to crimestoppers on the Thursday?? Hmm...






ETA: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 — message from DM "don't come to work"

The following day, (Wednesday May 8) AJ went to work, saw the truck on the green tarp

The next day, (Thursday May 9) the truck was still there. Took pics & called crimestoppers

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...red-belonged-to-missing-tim-bosma-trial-hears

I guess it wouldn't be all that hard to pull the crimestoppers data & confirm which day that call actually came in? But this is kind of a huge discrepancy.

Maybe he took the pictures on Wed. but did not have the courage to phone Crimestoppers until Thurs.

 

[Tamarind]

i get that. just looking for why there is blood on the undercarriage

Cutting ones hands while fixing a car is quite a common occurrence and a likely possibility IMO

 

[Sphinx]

Not sure he'd want to be pulling all that weight with his older, automatic, non diesel engine. Why not just take another truck and trailer? But why put out a hundred grand or more to do so when you've got employees sitting around doing nothing who can build you a trailer cheap and you can just steal a truck? Imagine the thrill!

I think both Jeeps were modified, one more so than the other. Maybe AM was going to drive the other one in the race? I think he drove with DM in 2011?

I once thought they wanted the engine until I heard the evidence of the other trailer. Now I think they wanted the truck to use and it WAS a car jacking gone wrong. But DM is so cocky that it appears he was still willing to go forward with his plan to use the truck, just paint it and strip the numbers and replace that interior they had to remove because of a pesky murder that got in the way. Maybe just throw in a driver's seat. Judging from his other vehicles he wasn't picky about the interiors. Until he got the news from SS. That was his oh-oh moment. And the cover up began. He just ran out of time.

MOO

Could he have changed the VIN number so he could use the whole truck for towing ?

 

[billandrew]

Was DM planning to attend a race in Calgary during summer 2013? Off-road racing was certainly something he had done before, if anyone remembers seeing the Facebook photos of DM, SS, and AM going on a road trip to Baja (IIRC). For that trip, they drove DM's Dodge Ram with a big trailer (the one Bosma's truck was found in) hitched on the back, and inside the trailer was DM's off-road vehicle.

Some key points from the trial:

• During the test drive with Igor, DM told him they were planning to tow some race cars to Calgary.
• AJ testified that DM was pushing his workers to finish building a trailer.

As it turns out, there was an off-road race held in Alberta on May 18/19, 2013 called "The Best in the West 4x4 Shoot Out". http://www.worr.ca/about/media/2013-past-events/

If DM had signed up for that race, it might explain why he was pushing to finish the trailer. It might also explain why he was so desperate to get Bosma's truck. They either needed it (or parts from it) for the actual race, or they needed it to tow their racing vehicle.

I wonder if LE ever contacted the organizers of this race (or another if there was one), to find out if DM was registered. It could help to support a motive for stealing Bosma's truck.

 

[Tamarind]

Thank you! I missed this.

Wow. They had nerves driving around town with Tim in the truck. This kind of says to me that the burning of Tim( sorry ) was not planned. Either not planned to do it at all, or at the hangar.

It also says that other(s) were there in the other vehicle. IMO

 

[Snowglobe]

S has a name in court and it is publishable. The reason he is often referred to in recent articles as just Shane is because that's what AJ repeatedly called him and most of the references are in direct quotes.

His name wasn't really relevant to reporters. The relationship between him and AJ was, however, key to understanding the situation and why AJ was reluctant to go to police.

<modsnip>

<modsnip>

It's important to name names in news coverage, but with the instant tweeting, at least one media's coverage did not give SS's surname. Attention to detail is the media's job, but in the world of instant coverage, that doesn't happen all the time. Trying to pay attention and tweet at the same time is difficult for anyone.

This name is relevant to reporters, as a potential upcoming witness. The correct way to report it might be to state his name in the first instance ("S (surname in brackets, if the surname wasn't stated by the witness), then refer to him as "first name" if that is coming out of the witness's mouth.

As we consider and discuss every little detail, it's important to remember that we are seeing and hearing things through a media filter. Maybe the day of court broadcasting is near.

 

[puppyraiser]

The simple fact that a gun was brought to a test drive speaks volumes to me. They were either expecting a struggle and came prepared to deal with it or planned to kill from the get-go. After the murder, DM was the one in possession of the gun until it was passed to MS and subsequently buried by him "in the woods". IF the gun belonged to MS and he was the one who fired it (without DM consent or knowledge of it being there prior to being fired), then why wouldn't DM have made MS take it that night. Why did he put himself in the position of being in possession of a murder weapon if he had NOTHING to do with the murder other than being in wrong place at wrong time?

And why wouldn't he/they have just burned it along with everything else? Would it have melted in the intense heat?

 

[swedie]

If he hasn't been charged, I'm sure he will.

He may have agreed to give testimony in exchange of charges. MOO.

 

[matou]

I think DM is a cheapo and that's part of the reason why he killed for a truck. He bought all sorts of properties but I think he was siphoning his cash. When he went on the yacht trip with the ladies he wanted some money back when he cut his trip short. He shops at Costco and brags about it, steals motorcycles and trailers. His friends say they didn't know he had money. It's a big discrepancy. He trips around the world, looks like a "hillbilly", gifts his friends with seadoos, buys condos but is a scrooge it seems. He bought the Ayr property under asking and the sellers really didn't want to sell at his price but ended up selling to him anyway. JMO MOO. He wanted the truck but had no intention of buying it for any price yet buys a condo in the distillery.

 

[Tamarind]

The simple fact that a gun was brought to a test drive speaks volumes to me. They were either expecting a struggle and came prepared to deal with it or planned to kill from the get-go. After the murder, DM was the one in possession of the gun until it was passed to MS and subsequently buried by him "in the woods". IF the gun belonged to MS and he was the one who fired it (without DM consent or knowledge of it being there prior to being fired), then why wouldn't DM have made MS take it that night. Why did he put himself in the position of being in possession of a murder weapon if he had NOTHING to do with the murder other than being in wrong place at wrong time?

And why wouldn't he/they have just burned it along with everything else? Would it have melted in the intense heat?

It is not a fact at this point, that a gun was taken to a test drive IMO.
We don't know when/if the second vehicle comes into play, or if others were involved. We have just found out that SS knew something but never contacted police, and who else?

If a gun was given to MS, my guess is it belonged to MS.

 

[Tamarind]

I think DM is a cheapo and that's part of the reason why he killed for a truck. He bought all sorts of properties but I think he was siphoning his cash. When he went on the yacht trip with the ladies he wanted some money back when he cut his trip short. He shops at Costco and brags about it, steals motorcycles and trailers. His friends say they didn't know he had money. It's a big discrepancy. He trips around the world, looks like a "hillbilly", gifts his friends with seadoos, buys condos but is a scrooge it seems. He bought the Ayr property under asking and the sellers really didn't want to sell at his price but ended up selling to him anyway. JMO MOO. He wanted the truck but had no intention of buying it for any price yet buys a condo in the distillery.

How can one gift friends with expensive items and also be a scrooge? Every house I have bought I have knocked the price down. Houses I've sold have also been bargained. FWIW

 

[Sphinx]

I had also thought LB's remains were also found in the incinerator, causing the murder charge against Dellen after the fact. However, the below article confirms she was not found there.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ound-at-dellen-millards-farm/article18476919/

Also, DM and MS were not charged with LB's murder until nearly a year later (looking for link), until after CN was arrested. I believe she gave LE information regarding LB OR they found evidence at her home in the case.

I cant wrap my head around why they would not stay at the farm if they were already there and thought it was necessary to go to the hangar.

I remember reading that neighbours close to the farm would notice the smoke from the incinerator, but that was not the case at the hangar.

 

[swedie]

The simple fact that a gun was brought to a test drive speaks volumes to me. They were either expecting a struggle and came prepared to deal with it or planned to kill from the get-go. After the murder, DM was the one in possession of the gun until it was passed to MS and subsequently buried by him "in the woods". IF the gun belonged to MS and he was the one who fired it (without DM consent or knowledge of it being there prior to being fired), then why wouldn't DM have made MS take it that night. Why did he put himself in the position of being in possession of a murder weapon if he had NOTHING to do with the murder other than being in wrong place at wrong time?

And why wouldn't he/they have just burned it along with everything else? Would it have melted in the intense heat?

I agree puppyraiser. The Crown has the evidence to show the gun changing hands. If it was MS's gun, he would have not had to go retrieve it from the friend where DM dropped it off. I don't believe DM tried to force TB out of his truck. IF that had happened, I suggest TB would have been more than willing to get out. He had a wonderful life and wouldn't risk being shot over a truck which had given him grief. No doubt he had insurance on it and would have considered that.

DM is a psychopath and enjoyed murdering his father and LB and he wanted the thrill of doing it again. He was brazen enough to think he would never be identified. Perhaps he sensed SB and WD weren't paying too much attention to him, maybe they seemed more focused on the weird dude in the hood. And being it was dark, perhaps he couldn't see SB and WD very well, therefore DM figured they couldn't see him that well either.

No the gun would not have melted in intense heat.
ALL MOO.

 

[swedie]

I remember reading that neighbours close to the farm would notice the smoke from the incinerator, but that was not the case at the hangar.

Could you please provide a link? TIA.

 

[swedie]

I think DM is a cheapo and that's part of the reason why he killed for a truck. He bought all sorts of properties but I think he was siphoning his cash. When he went on the yacht trip with the ladies he wanted some money back when he cut his trip short. He shops at Costco and brags about it, steals motorcycles and trailers. His friends say they didn't know he had money. It's a big discrepancy. He trips around the world, looks like a "hillbilly", gifts his friends with seadoos, buys condos but is a scrooge it seems. He bought the Ayr property under asking and the sellers really didn't want to sell at his price but ended up selling to him anyway. JMO MOO. He wanted the truck but had no intention of buying it for any price yet buys a condo in the distillery.

Anything that got DM ahead financially was good in his mind. He would be giving to others who helped him, to keep them around and quiet. The yacht trip...perhaps the women he took out showed him they weren't that "into" him soon after departing, so he figured he'd return, try again with with another woman, and when she didn't show much interest in him, he brought her back to shore also. He ran out of women so he took the yacht back and asked for a refund because he's that frugal. Perhaps he deliberately caused the toilet to malfunction on the yacht just to have a reason to get ha refund hahaha.

Is it possible those gifted seadoos were stolen also? He probably told the receiver(s) they had to keep their seadoos stored at the hangar only. That way if the friendship fell apart, he would still have the seadoo(s). Always scheming and cheap skating. No wheeling and dealing though. He just took what he wanted, even if he had to murder to get what he wanted. MOO.

 

[Juballee]

Was DM planning to attend a race in Calgary during summer 2013? Off-road racing was certainly something he had done before, if anyone remembers seeing the Facebook photos of DM, SS, and AM going on a road trip to Baja (IIRC). For that trip, they drove DM's Dodge Ram with a big trailer (the one Bosma's truck was found in) hitched on the back, and inside the trailer was DM's off-road vehicle.

Some key points from the trial:

• During the test drive with Igor, DM told him they were planning to tow some race cars to Calgary.
• AJ testified that DM was pushing his workers to finish building a trailer.

As it turns out, there was an off-road race held in Alberta on May 18/19, 2013 called "The Best in the West 4x4 Shoot Out". http://www.worr.ca/about/media/2013-past-events/

If DM had signed up for that race, it might explain why he was pushing to finish the trailer. It might also explain why he was so desperate to get Bosma's truck. They either needed it (or parts from it) for the actual race, or they needed it to tow their racing vehicle.

I wonder if LE ever contacted the organizers of this race (or another if there was one), to find out if DM was registered. It could help to support a motive for stealing Bosma's truck.

I'm not sure how being registered for a race would be motive to steal a truck: he already had a racing vehicle, and trailer and a towing vehicle if he needed one on short notice. But wouldn't his credit card receipts show if he had purchased an entry ticket into an upcoming race? Unless it was in southern Ontario, he would not have been able to pay cash to enter.

 

[Juballee]

The simple fact that a gun was brought to a test drive speaks volumes to me. They were either expecting a struggle and came prepared to deal with it or planned to kill from the get-go. After the murder, DM was the one in possession of the gun until it was passed to MS and subsequently buried by him "in the woods". IF the gun belonged to MS and he was the one who fired it (without DM consent or knowledge of it being there prior to being fired), then why wouldn't DM have made MS take it that night. Why did he put himself in the position of being in possession of a murder weapon if he had NOTHING to do with the murder other than being in wrong place at wrong time?

And why wouldn't he/they have just burned it along with everything else? Would it have melted in the intense heat?

Maybe be he was afraid to let MS keep it in his possession after he saw what he did to Tim?

 

[Juballee]

I remember reading that neighbours close to the farm would notice the smoke from the incinerator, but that was not the case at the hangar.

I don't remember reading that, do you think you can find a link for that, please?

Edit: I didn't realize Swedie already requested that, sorry. And I realize that some of the older links seem to be hard to find now...

 

[Sphinx]

Could you please provide a link? TIA.

Swedie,I remember neighbours near the farm being discussed long ago . I searched in the Incinerator threads, and found this in Incinerator 2. It clearly demonstrates the neighbours were watching things, and were aware that the incinerator was on the property. I am not sure how much they noticed before the case was in the papers, but they were in the area, driving by, and I think DM must have felt safer at the Hangar, where he could control things, and tell people not to come into work. There are also some interesting comments about the incinerator being permanently mounted on a flatbed trailer because it was so heavy, and that was the only way to move it around. Here is what I found in the old threads from 2014 :

Carli
08-24-2014, 12:50 PM
I believe the neighbours did see the incinerator earlier, we just don't know how much earlier. When they went back to take the picture on the Friday, it had been moved from it's original location. Where they had originally seen it is where the scorched ground was.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...6-May-2013-4-**ARREST**&p=9432188#post9432188

JMO

Thanks for the link, Alethea, and thanks, too, to Arnie for interesting contributions to this thread. I can't help but notice that the propane tank and (possibly) the incinerator were securely and permanently attached to the flatbed trailer. This makes sense because these are very heavy items that could not just be manhandled onto the trailer by a couple of people. This still leaves me wondering how there would be a burnt area or ashes on the ground under the trailer as has been reported. Wouldn't there, at the very least, be the blocked in outline of the trailer in that burnt area? If the incinerator burns with such heat on its underside, wouldn't that potentially damage the tires? Again, pardon me if I missed this in the thread, but I haven't seen any references to which vehicle (with a tow hook) that hauled that heavy equipment up the grassy hillside. It's hard to think of a good reason to move it at all. MOO. IMHO.

 

[Stratocaster]

...intrigued by TB's cell phone, was there any report of DM or MS finger prints on the phone when found? I'm of the opinion the deed was done right away and TB phone was shut off after quick web browser check, was that by TB or one of the accused hummm? MOO appears the phone to be close to a fence line when found judging by the pic as if to be thrown there by the accused vs TB's phone falling out on the ground shuffling him from front to back seat MOO