Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[DeepWoodsOff]

Looks like lots of activity.. I missed this earlier.. but Tim was all over the truck..
"Further forensic examination found the blood DNA of Tim Bosma on the inside of the truck in various areas, including the inside rear passenger door; rear passenger armrest; around the glove box; and front passenger cup holder."
Blood inside the rear passenger door, and on the armrest.. sounds like blood may have dripped from a head injury, if he was propped up against the rear window.. point blank to the head, exit wound breaking the front passenger window??
With the high concentration of GSR in the front seat, it sounds like the shot came from the front seat, and then moved to the back seat.. as someone mentioned before who would want to drive with a body in the car next to them.. Smich drove the Yukon, behind the Dodge, went to get the incinerator and then back to the hanger..

BBM
No one in their right mind but I have a feeling DM couldn't possibly care less. In fact I can picture him talking to the deceased the whole time he was driving. MOO

 

[andreww]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/297569867/Crown-s-opening-address

View attachment 88603

There was no database. Police traced TBs phone records which led them to the Bate phone. The Bate phone led to Igor. Igor told them about the ambition tattoo. Police published the info about the tattoo and two different sources called in and mentioned DM. In fact all that has already been testified to.

 

[caseyjonesin905]

BBM
No one in their right mind but I have a feeling DM couldn't possibly care less. In fact I can picture him talking to the deceased the whole time he was driving. MOO

Scary to think.. for sure, but I think it's more likely that he was shot point blank in the front seat, they pulled over to move him to the back seat (maybe where his phone may have fell out of his pocket and lost in the shuffle) and then put him in the back seat. There may be a connection to the business where the phone was found, but likely only the vacinity of where Tim was likely shot, and then where he pulled over. Maybe the Yukon was already following at that point??
It's a terrrible story all together, and I have a feeling that no one will EVER know what exactly happened that night.. It's all theory, but so is the case against them.. there just happens to be some evidence that they were there.. thankfully!!! And the fact that they thought their friends were all "solid"..

 

[Snowglobe]

Scary to think.. for sure, but I think it's more likely that he was shot point blank in the front seat, they pulled over to move him to the back seat (maybe where his phone may have fell out of his pocket and lost in the shuffle) and then put him in the back seat. There may be a connection to the business where the phone was found, but likely only the vacinity of where Tim was likely shot, and then where he pulled over. Maybe the Yukon was already following at that point??
It's a terrrible story all together, and I have a feeling that no one will EVER know what exactly happened that night.. It's all theory, but so is the case against them.. there just happens to be some evidence that they were there.. thankfully!!! And the fact that they thought their friends were all "solid"..

We'll learn more as other witnesses testify, no doubt. The person who supposedly dropped off the accused, then went to Tim Hortons may give us some insight. Was this person told to rendezvous (maybe at K.) before he left Trinity Road?

 

[caseyjonesin905]

We'll learn more as other witnesses testify, no doubt. The person who supposedly dropped off the accused, then went to Tim Hortons may give us some insight. Was this person told to rendezvous (maybe at K.) before he left Trinity Road?

I beleive they're using the running theory that it was just the two of them.. they parked the Yukon and walked up the driveway.. They had established that there was not a third person..

 

[andreww]

has anyone come up with why there is blood/dna on the undercarriage of the truck?

My thought is that TB bled out heavily in the truck, soaking the carpet. At the hanger the seats and carpet are removed. My guess is that the mounting rails for the seats went through the floor and when the sprayed out the stripped interior, the bloodied water dripped through those holes leaving residue under the car. You can see in the picture in the hanger that the car is on a tarp. There has to be a reason for that.

 

[Snowglobe]

To be precise, her remains were not found at the farm, but the incinerator was found at the farm.

Remains found in an incinerator that was no longer at the farm when forensic investigators found them, would be remains that were not found at the farm.

 

[Juballee]

i get that. just looking for why there is blood on the undercarriage

Perhaps someone who was covered in blood had to crawl beneath the truck to find the trailer hitch connection wires for the tail lights? If the incinerator had taillights.

 

[Snowglobe]

I was curious about the wording "police sources". In media coverage of another case, this term was used to describe information that came from police officers. In that case, the officers themselves were the source of the information. The media choose their own terms, and use them however they see fit. Things are sometimes unclear as a result.

 

[Sillybilly]

I believe this theory as well...buttttttttttt my gut is Smitch pulled the trigger JMO. So if the defense creates doubt on premeditated would they then only convict for 2nd degree? I'm just curious if they would still get 1st.

If you mean DM getting a conviction for 2nd degree if he didn't pull the trigger, not if he is found to have forcibly confined Tim. If a murder occurs during forcible confinement it is first degree whether premeditated or not.

from CCC, C-46, S. 231.5(e)
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-52.html#docCont

Hijacking, sexual assault or kidnapping

(5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:

(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);

(b) section 271 (sexual assault);

(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);

(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);

(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or

(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).

<bbm>

 

[JPC]

or, they ran over him when after possibly being shot and not killed right away

I was wondering the same thing but I would assume that there would be traces of blood elsewhere like on the road or wherever it happened.

 

[Snowglobe]

If you mean DM getting a conviction for 2nd degree if he didn't pull the trigger, not if he is found to have forcibly confined Tim. If a murder occurs during forcible confinement it is first degree whether premeditated or not.

from CCC, C-46, S. 231.5(e)
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-52.html#docCont

<bbm>

This is where testimony from the girlfriends will be very important.

 

[Snowglobe]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6263405-tim-bosma-murder-trial-nobody-comes-to-the-hangar-today-/

I think we all have to be very careful about what is reported and how, especially in the tweets. Here, "SS" is named, whereas his first name only was reported elsewhere.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Re: blood on the undercarriage of the truck. I think it may be a simple matter of liquid following gravity. I'm sure there's a scientific name for it but here's a perfect example:

Not long ago I bought a package of meat & put it in the fridge on the second shelf. Before I had a chance to use it, someone else had moved it and tipped it so it wasn't sitting flat and some of the blood in the tray had seeped out. When I reached in to get it I saw that so I had to clean it up. As I was doing that I noticed the blood had seeped over the side of the glass shelf it was sitting on, and ran down the side of the shelf and then UNDERNEATH the shelf (there was a trail of blood on the underside of the glass shelf). So I had to take the whole shelf out and wash that up. Once I had the entire glass shelf out, I saw even more blood droplets in the produce drawer underneath where the glass shelf was - so I had to take that out as well and wash it too.

The thing is? It was really a very very small amount of blood from just a package of meat - but it leaked and followed gravity & got all over the place. I have no idea how much blood you can lose from a gun shot but I suspect it's a heck of a lot. If Tim was in that truck, with a bleeding gun shot wound, from somewhere near his house until at least the farm in Ayr, or even the hangar in Waterloo, that would have been plenty of time and plenty of blood to follow the laws of gravity and even seep out of the truck in between the door & door frame. If that's the case - it sure makes plenty of sense why that green tarp was there on the hangar floor. They'd have seen the blood and put that down first to make sure none of it got on the floor.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Jennings testified that it had been made clear to him that Millard's business &#8212; including that fact that he never saw any airplane work at the hangar &#8212; was none of his business.

"(Shane) said 'we don't talk about that. We don't talk about Dell's business, and that's how it works &#8230; I didn't ask questions and I didn't want to know," he said.

When Dungey asked if this meant everything had to be run by Millard &#8212; for example, bringing in a truck or taking a trailer &#8212; Jennings said "absolutely."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6263405-tim-bosma-murder-trial-nobody-comes-to-the-hangar-today-/

I think DM had the truck out in the open because he thought AJ was totally old school, based on his ability to ignore everything going on in the hangar prior to this point.

DM was out in the open in the hangar because he believed he had enough control over people that no one would rat on him.

 

[Snowglobe]

No bodies were found in the incinerator, but human remains were found:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/297569867/Crown-s-opening-address

Just another reminder that if a reporter asked if LB's body was found on the farm, the answer might be, "No." If the reporter asked if LB's remains or DNA, or personal property had been found on the farm, the answer might be different. In legalese, people answer only the question they are asked. They do not volunteer to answer questions that are not asked.

 

[Kamille]

Looks like lots of activity.. I missed this earlier.. but Tim was all over the truck..
"Further forensic examination found the blood DNA of Tim Bosma on the inside of the truck in various areas, including the inside rear passenger door; rear passenger armrest; around the glove box; and front passenger cup holder."
Blood inside the rear passenger door, and on the armrest.. sounds like blood may have dripped from a head injury, if he was propped up against the rear window.. point blank to the head, exit wound breaking the front passenger window??
With the high concentration of GSR in the front seat, it sounds like the shot came from the front seat, and then moved to the back seat.. as someone mentioned before who would want to drive with a body in the car next to them.. Smich drove the Yukon, behind the Dodge, went to get the incinerator and then back to the hanger..

I don't think the back seat was removed though? Leading me to believe he was not moved or his blood would be in the seats. And why that area was not cleaned as well allowing them to find some blood traces? I think the blood on the door and armrest may have been from MS exiting the vehicle. Make of that what you will. More likely it was transference from removing the front passenger seat, which was likely covered in blood. The seat probably rubbed against the back passenger door as they were removing it. The possibilities are endless.

MOO

 

[ABro]

Do you suppose there is a reason that "S" doesn't have a surname in court? A person with that given name was mentioned in a news article in the past, so the surname is already in the public domain.

Do you think any of the witnesses are under police protection?

I think it is odd to have someone mentioned repeatedly in court only by their given name. Given all the pomp and ceremony in a courtroom, calling someone by their given name only seems a little too informal.

S has a name in court and it is publishable. The reason he is often referred to in recent articles as just Shane is because that's what AJ repeatedly called him and most of the references are in direct quotes.

His name wasn't really relevant to reporters. The relationship between him and AJ was, however, key to understanding the situation and why AJ was reluctant to go to police.

<modsnip>

 

[matou]

I haven't read through everything yet but I think DM had the gun and killed Tim. Why would he trust Smich with a gun when he could get himself shot too? JMO Millard was too much of a control freak for me to believe that. Unless they were BOTH packing.

 

[Sphinx]

What's to say he wasn't simply stupid and brazen?

Why should we assume that if DM were to commit this crime, he would commit it perfectly, with no mistakes that led to his identification?

Why should we assume that DM is so smart, that if he set out to commit a crime, that he would execute it flawlessly?

Is he that professional a criminal?

Since we know for sure drugs were a part of the lives of DM ( drugs provided at large parties ), and MS ( known to use, and I think sell them ), it is quite possible that they were high when they went to Tim's, and when they killed him. This could account for much of the carelessness, and what looks like stupid mistakes. I would like to hear Igor's take on whether or not he thought they were using anything when they did the test drive with him.