Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[HackD]

Great info thanks!

There was also a Baja 500 race coming up on May 30th of that year in Baja, Mexico. DM, SS and AM took one truck, one Jeep and one trailer to the same race in May 2011. He rolled the Jeep in that race which is why he didn't complete it. I believe DM had two Jeeps that were modified. Just something to ponder.

MOO

It would be logical that DM could stuff two jeeps in the one car-hauler.

Or the Baja 500 race coming up, could mean that DM's RAM had mechanical issues that needed to be augmented with parts from another.

There is no way they are putting together an engine/drivetrain transplant into the Jeep inside of three weeks, and being assured it'll hold together come race-day. I also question just how quickly they can both re-vin, re-spray and recondition a gutted Dodge RAM interior, as well as disguise other visual cues that virtually scream "TB's Truck".

If the RAM was intended to be openly used - this would point to TB's murder being a car-jacking gone wrong - to kill TB, destroyed any chances of being able to meet reasonable time-lines for short/medium term use of the vehicle. As DM soon found out.. prying eyes will get you every time.

I think DM had multiple irons in the personal projecting fire .. as far as his 'chop shop' goes. He had ambitions, all right.

 

[deugirtni]

I agree to a point. Why were they headed straight for the handy incinerator? I'm thinking they planned to overpower their victim and dispose of them never to be found. People disappear all the time. Stealing a vehicle is not such a big deal as you say. But put the two together and the theft links the disappearance in this case. It appears to me that the plan went bad outside K where TB may have realized he was in trouble and pulled out his phone. That could have led to panic and the gun being pulled within the cab, sending the phone out the window. I can't see these guys driving down the 403 with a blood splattered cab and smashed out window all the way from Trinity. I wonder if glass bits were searched in the drive?

I haven't read anywhere where it says there was any blood splattered in the cab, just GSR. It said TB's blood was found in a few locations inside the truck, but didn't specify how much. Also TB's blood on the undercarriage. It is possible that the truck wasn't all that bloody.

Does anyone know about that caliber of weapon, if it was held at close range, say to the head, what kind of damage would occur? Would the bullet go through the skull and out the other side to shatter the window? Would it create all kinds of spatter? (Which was never mentioned).

Also it was said that the window was 'shattered', so I'm not sure if the side windows are similar to the windshield, where it could just 'shatter' but stay intact as one piece inside the frame? or if the glass would have all blown out?

 

[Kamille]

The two others he's charged with murder for.. I'm sure the chop shop will play a bigger role in the murder of his father, and in LB.
I don't doubt that DM is ambitious.. It's just a shame that he couldn't have channeled that energy for good instead of evil.. It's amazing who you can get to follow your lead over a table full of coke.. MS was a petty **** previously.. just needed a good guide in my opinion. Just like Paul Bernardo was only a rapist before he met his dead eyed bride..

Judging by the photos dating back many years to the same cast of characters in the old hanger surrounded by vehicles and parts, I'm guessing this has been going on for a while. This "business" was more of a hobby to him IMO. And he paid a few close friends to partake in it with him IMO and called it a "business" and they all appeared to follow him like some he was some mob boss or something. I guess he supplied SS with a cushy job, MS with money and drugs to do his bidding and odd jobs and CN with dreams of a future? I've heard talk of "employees" at this "business" but we've yet to hear how many others there were. And what their roles were.

To my knowledge, at the time of the murder, while I believe he discussed plans with the airport executives about starting a different type of business than the original MRO that he cancelled the licence for (can't think of the name at the moment of the type of business he was batting around, something about renting the space and providing ground transportation for private planes?), I think he was also just trying to find another company to rent the hangar from him but allow him to have his "business" in a small area of it.

WM had to die because he actually expected DM to run a large MRO and take away time from all his fun hobbies and his "business" with his friends. In other words...work. So I don't think expanding into a large chop shop was in his plans because that also would become work at some point. Or maybe it finally was once WM was gone. I guess we'll see at his trial.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I agree with most of the reasoning here, but I still think that even if it was just going to be a carjacking, DM would have done something to conceal his identity at least a little, it is still a crime, and MS seemed to think concealment was necessary.

I also think he would not have picked the only test driver so far who had other witnesses present. If it was really about a car jacking, why not wait another day and pick a victim who was alone when he met them?

And really, even if it was a car jacking that was planned, why not warn the employees to stay away ahead of time as a part of the plan? To me there is so much that says this was not a planned event on DM's part.

What's to say he wasn't simply stupid and brazen?

Why should we assume that if DM were to commit this crime, he would commit it perfectly, with no mistakes that led to his identification?

Why should we assume that DM is so smart, that if he set out to commit a crime, that he would execute it flawlessly?

Is he that professional a criminal?

 

[SnooperDuper]

If if there were so many other stolen vehicles, why hasn't the crown brought it up yet? Are they waiting until later to try to come up with a motive? I would think that if there was any evidence that DM was running a chop shop, that it would have come up in the opening statements, or at least when AJ was discussing what business was going on at the hanger.

I could see AJ not wanting to bring it up if it looked like he knowingly did his co-op at a chop shop, but why wouldn't the crown mention it, unless there was no evidence of it? Even if there was only enough evidence to make a strong suspicion of a criminal enterprise being run from the hanger, I think that the crown would throw in if they had anything to at all to tie it to.

Just my opinion.

I think they will probably have the LE that investigated the stolen Harley and trailer, etc. testify about the existence or not of a chop shop. AJ would hardly be an expert witness on the matter. The LE that can prove the other vehicles were stolen will speak to it.

 

[Ontario Mom]

3)Another discrepancy is DM's mother's neighbour who said the truck appeared on the Wednesday night, the night of the Leafs' game. Looking at the schedule of Leafs' playoffs that year confirms that a game was in fact held on Wednesday night. There WAS no game listed on the Thursday night. Yet AJ's testimony states the truck was at the hangar on the Thursday, but not on the Friday. I'm not sure how or if this will come into play?
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/calendar.htm?date=5/1/2013

Digging around in the old articles there was 1 neighbor (Bob D.) who mentioned seeing the trailer actually being pulled into the driveway Wednesday night while him and his son were watching the game. According to this http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20122013/GS030144.HTM the game started just after 7 and ended just past 10:20.

Yet AJ says he took those pics & phoned in the VIN to crimestoppers on the Thursday?? Hmm...

ETA: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 — message from DM "don't come to work"

The following day, (Wednesday May 8) AJ went to work, saw the truck on the green tarp

The next day, (Thursday May 9) the truck was still there. Took pics & called crimestoppers

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...red-belonged-to-missing-tim-bosma-trial-hears

I guess it wouldn't be all that hard to pull the crimestoppers data & confirm which day that call actually came in? But this is kind of a huge discrepancy.

 

[Tealgrove]

I did some reading up on how chop shops work and I found it interesting that a lot of the time, the chop shop BUYS the stolen cars and then tears them apart for their parts and sells the parts.

Just wondering out loud here whether DM was initially purchasing stolen vehicles and then decided to take out the middle man and steal the vehicles himself?

As I agree with some others, I think DM is an adrenaline junky. Maybe once the RUSH of stealing vehicles wore off, he needed to add something to the mix to get back that HIGH.

He wanted the truck with the engine but I also think that he wanted to kill. It was part and parcel of the whole deal. It was the plan from the get go to murder Tim.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Digging around in the old articles there was 1 neighbor (Bob D.) who mentioned seeing the trailer actually being pulled into the driveway Wednesday night while him and his son were watching the game. According to this http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20122013/GS030144.HTM the game started just after 7 and ended just past 10:20.

Yet AJ says he took those pics & phoned in the VIN to crimestoppers on the Thursday?? Hmm...

Other neighbours say it was Thursday - BD is the only one who claims Wed and he only saw lights flash in his window - not the actual truck - on Wed night.

Maybe BD was mistaken and all of the other neighbours, who said the truck appeared Thursday, are correct.

 

[Kamille]

It would be logical that DM could stuff two jeeps in the one car-hauler.

Or the Baja 500 race coming up, could mean that DM's RAM had mechanical issues that needed to be augmented with parts from another.

There is no way they are putting together an engine/drivetrain transplant into the Jeep inside of three weeks, and being assured it'll hold together come race-day. I also question just how quickly they can both re-vin, re-spray and recondition a gutted Dodge RAM interior, as well as disguise other visual cues that virtually scream "TB's Truck".

If the RAM was intended to be openly used - this would point to TB's murder being a car-jacking gone wrong - to kill TB, destroyed any chances of being able to meet reasonable time-lines for short/medium term use of the vehicle. As DM soon found out.. prying eyes will get you every time.

I think DM had multiple irons in the personal projecting fire .. as far as his 'chop shop' goes. He had ambitions, all right.

Not sure he'd want to be pulling all that weight with his older, automatic, non diesel engine. Why not just take another truck and trailer? But why put out a hundred grand or more to do so when you've got employees sitting around doing nothing who can build you a trailer cheap and you can just steal a truck? Imagine the thrill!

I think both Jeeps were modified, one more so than the other. Maybe AM was going to drive the other one in the race? I think he drove with DM in 2011?

I once thought they wanted the engine until I heard the evidence of the other trailer. Now I think they wanted the truck to use and it WAS a car jacking gone wrong. But DM is so cocky that it appears he was still willing to go forward with his plan to use the truck, just paint it and strip the numbers and replace that interior they had to remove because of a pesky murder that got in the way. Maybe just throw in a driver's seat. Judging from his other vehicles he wasn't picky about the interiors. Until he got the news from SS. That was his oh-oh moment. And the cover up began. He just ran out of time.

MOO

 

[HackD]

I haven't read anywhere where it says there was any blood splattered in the cab, just GSR. It said TB's blood was found in a few locations inside the truck, but didn't specify how much. Also TB's blood on the undercarriage. It is possible that the truck wasn't all that bloody.

Most of the interior that would have been affected by blood cast-off or velocity spray from any exit wound had been removed and burned/incinerated - charred metal framework remnants were found at the nose of the trailer, in front of TB's truck, as found stored in DM's mom's driveway. What remained of blood to be detected, would have been on portions of the interior chassis that was paintwork.

Blood was found in several portions of the interior cab.

That DM/MS didn't clean it down much more thoroughly, shows the height of their amateur hour.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

Other neighbours say it was Thursday - BD is the only one who claims Wed and he only saw lights flash in his window - not the actual truck - on Wed night.

Maybe BD was mistaken and all of the other neighbours, who said the truck appeared Thursday, are correct.

These are all very interesting details to say the least. Multiple neighbours say Thursday, BD says Wednesday. Thursday makes sense if AJ took the pictures Thursday. Not so much if the trailer showed up Wednesday. I am going to assume though that prosecution checked the time stamp on the photos AJ took to confirm that date before using his time-line. I may have missed it but did he confirm he took the photos with his cell phone? If so they are definitely date and time stamped.

 

[Alderbrook]

Other neighbours say it was Thursday - BD is the only one who claims Wed and he only saw lights flash in his window - not the actual truck - on Wed night.

Maybe BD was mistaken and all of the other neighbours, who said the truck appeared Thursday, are correct.

Nope he says he saw the truck.

"Bob Dimas, who also lives on Tinsmith, said he saw someone bringing the black trailer in on Wednesday night, while Dimas and his son were watching the Maple Leafs game. Then by Sunday, “there were more police cars on the street than there were neighbourhood cars.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...kes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

Then here he says Thursday

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2873808-tim-bosma-s-truck-found-police/




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[Snowglobe]

Nope he says he saw the truck.

"Bob Dimas, who also lives on Tinsmith, said he saw someone bringing the black trailer in on Wednesday night, while Dimas and his son were watching the Maple Leafs game. Then by Sunday, “there were more police cars on the street than there were neighbourhood cars.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...kes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

Then here he says Thursday

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2873808-tim-bosma-s-truck-found-police/






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To be perfectly clear, there is no contradiction. In one article, he is quoted as saying it arrived on Wednesday. The other article says it was parked in the driveway on Thursday. Both could be true, in a nitpicky way.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

This is a shot in the dark but...is it possible the trailer was dropped Wednesday with nothing in it, picked up, filled up and returned Thursday? Or maybe the trailer was empty and they drove Bosma's truck there overnight Thursday and put it in the trailer while the neighbours slept? I know...high risk etc but I am trying to work through the contradiction here. MOO

 

[Alderbrook]

To be perfectly clear, there is no contradiction. In one article, he is quoted as saying it arrived on Wednesday. The other article says it was parked in the driveway on Thursday. Both could be true, in a nitpicky way.

Different articles reference the same man saying Wednesday and Thursday. But the fact he says it was while the leaf game was on leads towards Wednesday. It can't be both. AJ says he took pics Thursday of the truck in the hangar so how did it get to MMs house Wednesday during the game? That leaf game was a big deal, I remember that night, everyone wanted to watch that game.

I'm not saying he isn't mistaken, it's just weird he says it was backed into the driveway while he was watching the leaf game which wasn't on Thursday.


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[HackD]

This is a shot in the dark but...is it possible the trailer was dropped Wednesday with nothing in it, picked up, filled up and returned Thursday? Or maybe the trailer was empty and they drove Bosma's truck there overnight Thursday and put it in the trailer while the neighbours slept? I know...high risk etc but I am trying to work through the contradiction here. MOO

Makes no sense to drive the truck over seperately - interior was gutted (was there even a driver's seat at that point?). Interior that was burned, was at front nose of trailer. Rear brake lights were off the vehicle.

 

[Kamille]

Don't we have an accomplice who helped move that trailer that has confirmed to LE it was Thursday night?

Not getting hung up on incorrect witness reports to the news media. Do we know if BD is going to be a witness in this trial? Is he going to get up on the stand and say he saw that trailer coming in on Wednesday night during a hockey game when a cell phone pic likely is date stamped that it was in the hangar on the Thursday? I doubt it. He saw a vehicle with lights probably that night. It was not the trailer according to CN.

MOO

 

[caseyjonesin905]

Judging by the photos dating back many years to the same cast of characters in the old hanger surrounded by vehicles and parts, I'm guessing this has been going on for a while. This "business" was more of a hobby to him IMO. And he paid a few close friends to partake in it with him IMO and called it a "business" and they all appeared to follow him like some he was some mob boss or something. I guess he supplied SS with a cushy job, MS with money and drugs to do his bidding and odd jobs and CN with dreams of a future? I've heard talk of "employees" at this "business" but we've yet to hear how many others there were. And what their roles were.

To my knowledge, at the time of the murder, while I believe he discussed plans with the airport executives about starting a different type of business than the original MRO that he cancelled the licence for (can't think of the name at the moment of the type of business he was batting around, something about renting the space and providing ground transportation for private planes?), I think he was also just trying to find another company to rent the hangar from him but allow him to have his "business" in a small area of it.

WM had to die because he actually expected DM to run a large MRO and take away time from all his fun hobbies and his "business" with his friends. In other words...work. So I don't think expanding into a large chop shop was in his plans because that also would become work at some point. Or maybe it finally was once WM was gone. I guess we'll see at his trial.

MOO

Wasnt the business supposed to be along the lines of an airline mechanic?? would make sense to see motorized parts in an out of there.. Some rebuilt hobby planes have auto engines in them.. may be a far fetched theory I know.. but with an in house customs paperwork person, and a bunch of car theiving lackies in his employ, whether paid in drugs, cash, whatever.. What was AJ's job before he decided late in life to go back to school?? Can you imagine if it was a mechanic??
Who would look twice at a reputable name in the business shipping "airplane" parts all over the place?? A little bit of Gotham evil for sure, lol but this merry band of nitwits were just that, nitwits.. 10' tall and bullet proof.. Love the end of Scooby Doo.. "I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you pesky kids!!" lol #sorrynotsorry

 

[caseyjonesin905]

Don't we have an accomplice who helped move that trailer that has confirmed to LE it was Thursday night?

Not getting hung up on incorrect witness reports to the news media. Do we know if BD is going to be a witness in this trial? Is he going to get up on the stand and say he saw that trailer coming in on Wednesday night during a hockey game when a cell phone pic likely is date stamped that it was in the hangar on the Thursday? I doubt it. He saw a vehicle with lights probably that night. It was not the trailer according to CN.

MOO

I thought CN helped move the eliminator to the stand in the woods at the farm, AND helped drop the truck in the trailer at his moms..

 

[HackD]

MsSherlock #599 thread before
Why did DM shake disapprovingly his head, when he heard that MS had said to his girlfriend, the truck owner had "gone-gone-gone"?

Internally, DM was probably thinking to himself, "MS, now why in the Almighty <modsnip> did you go and blab that to your GF? Could have been one more <modsnip> hole we had to dig!"

Loose lips sink ships, Operational Security, and all that.