Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Juballee]

I just had a thought on the biggest question, 'Why Tim?'

What if it wasn't DM's choosing but MS's?

What if Tim was picked as the murder victim not because of his size or the location, but was picked because DM had decided to buy Tim's truck and MS realized that this would be his last chance to find a victim on a test drive?

 

[MsSherlock]

I just had a thought on the biggest question, 'Why Tim?'

What if it wasn't DM's choosing but MS's?

What if Tim was picked as the murder victim not because of his size or the location, but was picked because DM had decided to buy Tim's truck and MS realized that this would be his last chance to find a victim on a test drive?

Sure and then DM say's- wow MS, I just happen to have the piece of equipment for you- we both win! MOO

 

[Tamarind]

The jury isn't sitting there thinking is there a way that DM could be innocent and MS, guilty?

They are taking in all the evidence and so far it all points to DM.

I think (my opinion) jurors are having those thoughts - that is what <the judge> instructed them to do. He said they could find both guilty/not guilty, or either of the two guilty IIRC.

 

[Juballee]

The jury isn't sitting there thinking is there a way that DM could be innocent and MS, guilty?

They are taking in all the evidence and so far it all points to DM.

Except for the part where every witness describes MS and seeming shady and hiding when DM is open and natural.

So far all the evidence of someone looking to buy a truck has pointed to DM, and all the evidence of someone trying to cover up a crime after the fact is centered on him, but I haven't heard yet who the crown thinks pulled the trigger or brought the gun or planned the crime.

Personally, I would love to know that the jury is thinking, but since I can't, I'll have to rely on my own thoughts.

 

[Tamarind]

Sure and then DM say's- wow MS, I just happen to have the piece of equipment for you- we both win! MOO

AJ did say MS was often at the hangar and his SIL . Sounds like quite a few people likely had knowledge of the equipment and anything else DM owned or was connected to.

 

[Tamarind]

I wonder if DM checked his own video surveillance and saw that AJ took the photos?

Also: DM's statement when LE wanted to search his hangar "I thought you would want to." is sooooo cocky. Really??? You're gonna actually say this to police? SMH

I think SS was told by AJ that he took photos. I believe AJ said that only he and Shane were there at the time.

 

[Errrr]

Yeah, this third person thing is seriously grasping at straws at this point. LE made it pretty clear that they didn't believe there was still a third kidnapper at large and a danger to the public. <modsnip>

I think LE was sitting on the fence on this issue. Notice how they qualify their statements: not a third kidnapper "at large" AND "a danger to the public" (under surveillance?), no one else "directly" involved in the murder (merely driving the chase car?). While certain people were left at large in plain sight, they were amassing further evidence against the main suspect as the police have indicated.
If there is a third person, they should show up in the surveillance video(recovered from CNs house) showing activity inside of the hangar that night.

 

[Juballee]

Sure and then DM say's- wow MS, I just happen to have the piece of equipment for you- we both win! MOO

Or DM says, "What have you gotten me into! Now I have to clean up your mess or it looks like I killed the guy because I'm the one looking for a truck! Give me that gun before you kill anyone else!" I could go on and on.

And again, the same could be said about DM having the right equipment on hand if all he owned was a hack saw or a kitchen knife. People use what they have. Or if no DM was on hand, I'm sure MS would have used whatever he had on hand to get rid of the body.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Except for the part where every witness describes MS and seeming shady and hiding when DM is open and natural.

That just makes DM seem like a psychopath. MS could have been there just to steal a truck, and could have known nothing about the gun. DM may have asked him to be the getaway driver, and he thought that's all he'd be involved in once DM pushed TB out of the truck. I think MS can make claims to have been pulled into something bigger than he expected, but DM is obviously the leader and in control of the events of May 6-7.

So far all the evidence of someone looking to buy a truck has pointed to DM, and all the evidence of someone trying to cover up a crime after the fact is centered on him, but I haven't heard yet who the crown thinks pulled the trigger or brought the gun or planned the crime.

Personally, I would love to know that the jury is thinking, but since I can't, I'll have to rely on my own thoughts.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Or DM says, "What have you gotten me into! Now I have to clean up your mess or it looks like I killed the guy because I'm the one looking for a truck! Give me that gun before you kill anyone else!" I could go on and on.

And again, the same could be said about DM having the right equipment on hand if all he owned was a hack saw or a kitchen knife. People use what they have. Or if no DM was on hand, I'm sure MS would have used whatever he had on hand to get rid of the body.

What kind of guy owns an animal crematorium, really? Most of the population doesn't have that piece of equipment "on hand".

The more we discuss how DM might be innocent, the more ludicrous it seems.

Nice Freudian slip by the way. No DM = no animal crematorium?

 

[Juballee]

That just makes DM seem like a psychopath. MS could have been there just to steal a truck, and could have known nothing about the gun. DM may have asked him to be the getaway driver, and he thought that's all he'd be involved in once DM pushed TB out of the truck. I think MS can make claims to have been pulled into something bigger than he expected, but DM is obviously the leader and in control of the events of May 6-7.

The part I don't understand is why 'MS could have known nothing about the gun' is a perfectly acceptable theory here, but anyone who tries to point out that the reverse is also true, is mocked and laughed at.

 

[Juballee]

What kind of guy owns an animal crematorium, really? Most of the population doesn't have that piece of equipment "on hand".

The more we discuss how DM might be innocent, the more ludicrous it seems.

Nice Freudian slip by the way. No DM = no animal crematorium?

Again, if the body was disposed of in a wood chipper, the same arguement could be had, what kind of guy owns a wood chipper who isn't a landscaper. If a chainsaw had been used, we could ask why does a guy have a chainsaw if he's not a woodsman. People use what they have available, always have and always will.

Not it sure I see a Freudian slip there, care to explain the joke?

 

[SnooperDuper]

The part I don't understand is why 'MS could have known nothing about the gun' is a perfectly acceptable theory here, but anyone who tries to point out that the reverse is also true, is mocked and laughed at.

It's because the gunshot residue in the truck was in the front driver's side and front passenger side area, where DM and TB were sitting, and the window directly behind TB from DM's perspective was blown out. That points to DM being the operator of the gun.

 

[Errrr]

I think DM is a cheapo and that's part of the reason why he killed for a truck. He bought all sorts of properties but I think he was siphoning his cash. When he went on the yacht trip with the ladies he wanted some money back when he cut his trip short. He shops at Costco and brags about it, steals motorcycles and trailers. His friends say they didn't know he had money. It's a big discrepancy. He trips around the world, looks like a "hillbilly", gifts his friends with seadoos, buys condos but is a scrooge it seems. He bought the Ayr property under asking and the sellers really didn't want to sell at his price but ended up selling to him anyway. JMO MOO. He wanted the truck but had no intention of buying it for any price yet buys a condo in the distillery.

I got the impression that his dad was not a great supporter of DMs leisurely lifestyle and was not as free with money as DM would have liked. If he wanted car parts he may have found this source of free parts through his shady acquaintances. It appears his ex-fiancé may have inspired his ambition to become a real estate tycoon, flipping property for profit. After his dad was gone his method of acquiring cheap parts could escalate rather than go legit. They were still short of cash since that hangar was a white elephant. The eliminator appears to be a new tool in their MO and LB may have turned up at just the moment to try it out. She was perfect as a homeless person estranged from family. He rightly presumes a half-assed investigation if any.

 

[Alethea Dice]

How do you know where DM was that day? We haven't heard evidence on that topic yet.

We don't know where he was until later. What we do know is that the burner phone was in Oakville early that morning and that Oakville is where MS was living at his mother's. Since they seem to be showing that the burner phone was in the same place that DM was that night, one would think that they would have included where DM's phone was that morning as well, especially if it was in Oakville as well. I'm curious as to why they didn't present any phone evidence about where MS's phone was, if he had one. I remember one tweet about them both turning off their phones as they entered Tim's driveway, but was that a mistake or did they both have one? Since the record presented of DM's phone seems to start shortly after 5:00, perhaps he was at the hangar all day working on that rush trailer job.

 

[Gibson67]

Looks like lots of activity.. I missed this earlier.. but Tim was all over the truck..
"Further forensic examination found the blood DNA of Tim Bosma on the inside of the truck in various areas, including the inside rear passenger door; rear passenger armrest; around the glove box; and front passenger cup holder."
Blood inside the rear passenger door, and on the armrest.. sounds like blood may have dripped from a head injury, if he was propped up against the rear window.. point blank to the head, exit wound breaking the front passenger window??
With the high concentration of GSR in the front seat, it sounds like the shot came from the front seat, and then moved to the back seat.. as someone mentioned before who would want to drive with a body in the car next to them.. Smich drove the Yukon, behind the Dodge, went to get the incinerator and then back to the hanger..

if blood from Tim was on Smitch it would explain blood being transferred to rear passenger armrest and seat as well.

 

[SnooperDuper]

if blood from Tim was on Smitch it would explain blood being transferred to rear passenger armrest and seat as well.

I imagine if the window was shattered they would have to roll it down to hide that...then they would have to move TB into the back to hide him, because that window was open.

 

[Gibson67]

Maybe he took the pictures on Wed. but did not have the courage to phone Crimestoppers until Thurs.

this also gives a video timeline of Jennings http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...for-tim-bosma-s-family/#.VrXvCcExb6w.facebook click on videos and click on Bosma trial recap day 4

 

[HackD]

IMHO, I'm more than content to wait for the Crowns evidence to unfold but I'll tell you where the "unplanned" theory loses it with me. The fact that TB's truck just happened to have the right trailer hitch to tow the incinerator to the hangar. How fantastically convenient was that!!! Sure, sure, it may have been one of those crazy frantic decisions that you make when you have a dead body in the truck that you just stole. First of all, the truck had a box on it, so there's a good possibility that DM and MS put the body in the box so they weren't driving around with it- would explain blood on the undercarriage. IMO, DM and MS had lots of opportunity to ditch the body- they were travelling thru a remote area- creeks, brush, forests- no need for the eliminator. MOO

It would rather surprise me more if TB's truck did NOT have the trailer receiver and hitch already, stock and standard equipment. It's a RAM3500 .. optimized for heavy towing, diesel engine, 4x4 traction, and all. The hitches, receivers and balls are all industry standard - In Tim's case with landscaping, it would likely be an integral need for the truck. The incinerator, mounted on what amounts to a reinforced landscaping trailer, also used a 2" ball coupling. The race trailers, also used the same coupling setup.

If i had the desire to watch my clutch disappear in a smoke-show trying to move it, my little Toyota Tacoma 4-banger would hook up fine on any of those trailers, as far as the physical coupling goes. Just MOO, only.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I'm surprised to be saying this but I kinda agree. According to my notes, DM bought that farm for $835K cash in May 2011. That was around the time he had those non-traditional (trying to be polite) engagement photos done, and more than a year before LB went missing.

I'm not aware of anything that suggests the fiancee was involved in any of DM's nefarious activities. In 2011, there was a house in Oakville where they reportedly had lived together for at least some period of time (per my notes, the house was in fiancee's name and post-breakup, DM was involved in its sale in February 2012).

Just to add some perspective to the timeline, at the end of May 2011 (not long after buying the farm and the engagement photo-shoot), DM and his two buddies drove down to Mexico for the Baja 500 race (~3 week trip). By August 1, 2011, DM and CN had already gotten together.

I would be surprised if the ex-fiancee was called as a witness, but I do wonder if she was interviewed by police at all just for some background on DM. I think she was living in one of his condos at the time of the murder(s), so likely was still on good terms with him.

Yeah, his downhill turn seems to have started with the Baja race, losing his fiance, and starting up with CN. I wonder when he met MS and the car crew. Does anyone know?