Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #11

[hellkat2]

IMO, he is not in touch with reality at all. He probably will never understand what he has done or care, either. The fact that this far into the trial he is apparently still standing and smiling at the spectators and Bosma family shows how out of touch he is.

The idea that this psychopath is standing and smiling at spectators and the Bosma family is enuf for me to think DM should be provided a video feed from the prison if at all possible. Make it so he does not even get an outing from that place. Smich as well. They are both getting too much attention by media etc and no good can come of this. I read today that there is already a woman who has written Mellard in prison and he has returned in kind. There will be many more for the both of them and even more with the media attention given to them and their scum lowlife band of thieves. This will prevent his thinly veiled victimization of the Bosma family. DM is playing head games and the arrogance of it should not be tolerated or enabled. IMO

 

[palisadesk]

I don't think you could just build 2 or 3 homes on one parcel of land without severing the property.

Ah, thank you, I was trying to recollect the right term for when you sell part of the property to someone else (or several someones). That is also the rule here; you have to sever the property, but that has to be approved by the city based on whatever the rules are. Requests for severance are not automatically approved. When I bought this property I was told that it would be possible to sever off a lot or two down the road if i wished to do so (I don't) but I never verified this as it pertains to my particular acreage (property backs up to a wetland so I doubt it). As I understand it the neighbour did sever a lot to the family member,otherwise as in your example only a mobile home or something similar would have been permitted. In HW you need a permit to build a deck or a shed or carport, let alone a house.

 

[chaines]

Not that the answers would change my thoughts on the outcome of this trial but a couple of things puzzle me. i) MM testified that when DM and MS picked her up the following morning they were almost jubilant. But then later, he is in such a panic about the gun at his house that he cant even stay there with it? According to MM and AM it was MS who requested the items.. He was apparently also in a panic when BD was at the house to get some pot, enough that it was MM who brought it out and said he needed to get out of there. My first thought was that maybe MS was completely dumb to the fact that DM shot Mr. Bosma, but then I remembered that he was there when the body of Mr. Bosma was incinerated based on MM testimony and video from the hangar. ii) when MM stated that she wished she had done something, and if she had that things would have turned out different I wonder what she meant by that. She could not have prevented the murder and incineration by going to the police. The only thing I can think that she meant was that they would have the gun before MS buried it.

I realize she had lots of time to go to the police after piecing it all together but I cant be too hard on her. I can't imagine the panic she would have been under when she found out DM was involved in this horrendous crime and suddenly found herself in the middle of something that was much larger than MS other missions. I wouldn't be surprised that she WANTED to go to the police herself, but was concerned for her own safety. Maybe she had too much unwarranted faith in MS and each day thought that today would be the day he did the right thing and went to the police. I suspect the longer he put it off, the more she realized that he was deeper into it than he was telling her. Which probably scared her even more... I think her testimony was truthful to the questions posed to her. She made a lot of poor choices earlier and I hope she can turn her life around. So far, she has been the only one to show any empathy to the Bosma family.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I've been giving the cross examination a lot of thought. IMHO, I would expect that we're going to hear the same old stuff from the P&S team but as Mikala (welcome Mikala) pointed out, they certainly don't want to ask a question they don't know the answer to and IMHO, MM may have some answers they don't want to hear. I also think that MM is by all accounts a very reputable witness. She gave a statement right away. She heard them talking about stealing the truck, she got into the Yukon with the DM & MS the next morning when they were so happy about such a successful mission. I don't even know how far P & S will get with "it was great having DM as a friend" because IMHO, none of DM's other friends had to clean his toilets for any of their perks. She doesn't seem to have any problem believing MS's story about DM killing TB. I think P & S have a very big challenge ahead of them.

IMO, Dungey on the other hand has a hard task since MM's testimony has been so incriminating on MS as well. What can Dungey attack her on? She didn't think any of it was OK. She cut it off with his client as soon as he was arrested. Once again, he doesn't want to ask her something he isn't 100% certain of the answer. He may even keep it really short and simple, straight on what MS told her about Dell killing TB. That's all he really wants the Jury to focus on. His cross should be interesting as well!

If I had to guess, both D teams would just as soon pretend that MM wasn't even a witness. If they close their eyes, maybe she'll go away? MOO

AC, Apr 6 2016 11:53 AM
Dungey says Smich helped his girlfriend Marlena Meneses get her life together. "She had a drug problem, she had a bad boyfriend," Dungey says. Daly says he doesn't know about that.

more of this...

 

[ArianeEmory]

Wonder if DM has finally realized that he's not going to lie his way out of this one? The reality of being found guilty of first degree and spending the rest of his life behind bars must be sinking in by now. MOO

I think he knew a long time ago and that's why he's representing himself for LB--it'll give him more things to feel like he has control over, and time out of his cell to do research or whatever. Plans and schemes to make. Remember, he's already filed complaints about his lack of access to resources for that trial.

It's all a big show and he'll take whatever spotlight he can get now. Just like Bundy.

 

[newone]

I believe that MS began to realize he was being set up when contacted by MH - after all it was AM and DM that indicated that MS wanted the toolbox etc. (IIRC) -- feel free to correct me if I got this wrong

the following is from day 32 of the threads

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 44m44 minutes ago
Crown correcting a date: Millard charged with murder May 15...May 9 Millard tells Hagerman he's "feeling some heat."

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 43m43 minutes ago
Hagerman says he thought maybe someone was going to visit Maplegate house and Millard needed to get his drugs out. #Bosma

 

[ArianeEmory]

I believe that MS began to realize he was being set up when contacted by MH - after all it was AM and DM that indicated that MS wanted the toolbox etc. (IIRC) -- feel free to correct me if I got this wrong

the following is from day 32 of the threads

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 44m44 minutes ago
Crown correcting a date: Millard charged with murder May 15...May 9 Millard tells Hagerman he's "feeling some heat."

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 43m43 minutes ago
Hagerman says he thought maybe someone was going to visit Maplegate house and Millard needed to get his drugs out. #Bosma

I'm not 100% following you as far as why/when he thought he was being set up, but if he believed AM/MH were being directed by DM to pin everything on him, it would explain his weird "n----- coming for me" quotes we saw. (I didn't realize, the day those quotes came out, that he wasn't being specifically racist, pretending to be afraid of unnamed black people--that he just uses that word in a faux gangster way. Would get him in a lot of trouble in my town of he tried it.)

 

[mimimic]

I feel that DM will lie till he is blue in the face just like Smich and the rest of the pit crew and gf's. DM will spend the rest of his days hiring various lawyers just because he can.

Well, maybe he'll get his fill and let alone; with his own father's and LB's court cases following.

 

[newone]

Justifiably guilty conscience could trigger MS into believing LE was closing in if he heard via the Mission particpants ((we really don't know how many were involved)) that DM was feeling some heat as per H's testimony....I sense that the ''misremembering'' of actual date is due to the snippets of remembering all kinds of hints that MM might have picked up from MS through his behavior or overheard convo's he may have had with her or others. JMO

 

[Just4TB]

I don't think you could just build 2 or 3 homes on one parcel of land without severing the property.

Correct. Typically severances are limited, for example. one severance for one house from a property.
Multiple homes would require a "Plan of Subdivision" which is treated differently than a single severance.
Subdivisions are way more cost, more red tape, (rezoning etc), developer of the subdivision pays for roads, parks etc, then the municipality takes over road ownership on completion etc
JV spoke of multiple homes on the Roseville Rd property, and SS and MB references to moving there also, which would imply a "plan of subdivision" vs a severance.
Or in this case, maybe just another DM fantasy.

 

[Just4TB]

I'm not 100% following you as far as why/when he thought he was being set up, but if he believed AM/MH were being directed by DM to pin everything on him, it would explain his weird "n----- coming for me" quotes we saw. (I didn't realize, the day those quotes came out, that he wasn't being specifically racist, pretending to be afraid of unnamed black people--that he just uses that word in a faux gangster way. Would get him in a lot of trouble in my town of he tried it.)

And it won't go over very well in the penitentiary either IMO

 

[Arnie M]

<snip>
JV spoke of multiple homes on the Roseville Rd property, and SS and MB references to moving there also, which would imply a "plan of subdivision" vs a severance.
Or in this case, maybe just another DM fantasy.

Yes , I think he had a fantasy plan in mind

In many ways it sounds like DM had a cult-like plan for his followers to live at his farm "kingdom"

I have studied cult leaders for years and DM has many of the attributes

Look at how he treated and manipulated everyone around him. Even to the point of trying to convince his mom to sell her beautiful Kleinberg house , give him the proceeds so he could pay his bills , and some day he would build her a new one on his farm acreage.

He had plans for a big garage for all his cars and toys , his mechanic and plumber could live on site , and Villada Homes could do the construction.

 

[Jen Darme]

AC, Apr 6 2016 11:53 AM
Dungey says Smich helped his girlfriend Marlena Meneses get her life together. "She had a drug problem, she had a bad boyfriend," Dungey says. Daly says he doesn't know about that.

more of this...

Yeah, he's carrying that thread. From AC's tweets on Day 38, EM on the stand, TD's last question to her:

Meneses says Smich was nice to her and to her sister.
"And she needed that at that point in her life, didn't she?" Dungey says. "Yes, she did," Meneses says.

From NS's cross-examination of EM:

"Your sister was infatuated with Mr. Smich," Sachak says. "She was very much into him," Meneses says.
Marlena moved out of her mother's house because there was "tension," Sachak says, over her behaviour and relationship with Smich.
"She left your mom's house to be with Mr. Smich," Sachak says. Meneses says yes.

MH's tweet was more specific:

Marlena moved out of her moms house bc she was breaking the rules, hanging out w Smich and coming home late, Elizabeth agrees.

According to a MH tweet, TD also referred to MM as strong-willed and EM agreed.

I'm afraid the defense is going to give MM a very hard time, aiming to discredit her character as well as challenging her recollection of events. I keep telling myself the jury won't lose sight of the big picture drawn by the physical evidence and will eke out enough credibility from the entourage's testimony regarding MS's involvement.

 

[YYC Lady]

I could be remembering wrong, but wasn't there something mentioned/alluded to earlier in the trial by the Crown that there was something of importance or relevant to the trial in the folder that MM is seen carrying onto the elevator the morning that rhey arrive in the Yukon to pick her up?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Love at first sight in a Tim Hortons? They just hit eyes, and Mark's were all big, and it was like he was in love with Dell.

:blowkiss:​

:thumb:

 

[InducedLogic]

Yes , I think he had a fantasy plan in mind

In many ways it sounds like DM had a cult-like plan for his followers to live at his farm "kingdom"

I have studied cult leaders for years and DM has many of the attributes

Look at how he treated and manipulated everyone around him. Even to the point of trying to convince his mom to sell her beautiful Kleinberg house , give him the proceeds so he could pay his bills , and some day he would build her a new one on his farm acreage.

He had plans for a big garage for all his cars and toys , his mechanic and plumber could live on site , and Villada Homes could do the construction.

This has always been a suspicion of mine as well. DM had a long term plan.

Remember there is also an air-plane runway across the road from the DM farm. I suspect he purchased the farm for that very reason. Perhaps one day he planned to acquire the property across the road with the runway so he could run his "Missions" on a much larger scale. He could run a chop shop canada wide without much attention using aircraft to transport stolen items.

 

[InducedLogic]

I believe this is the private airfield located across the road from the DM farm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayr/Sargeant_Private_Airfield

this link might take you to the google maps satelite view of the properties in question.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ro...2!3m1!1s0x882c74e2b8849f47:0x6fb0cb90969e564f

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I can imagine them sitting there seeing the news where they showed pics of possible ambition tattoos and MS even freaked out saying OMG 'Dell'!! and MM immediately would assume that too if she knew of the tattoo which she probably did and in the shock of the moment has morphed the scene into seeing his 'picture'. Regardless I think strongly it was the tattoo in the news and probably MS reaction to that, followed by a tip from MB or CN. Remember, these people will all be paranoid about whether they got away with the crime or not. Any public tid bit of info could be enough to tip them over the edge into complete panic as they realize their scheme will come crashing down any moment. For all we know they may have been following online in FB or even WS what was transpiring. I recall all sorts of rumours going around social media at that time, its possible there was a clue there. IIRC there was that cryptic message in Russian or Yugoslavian about 'tell the wolf they got the farm', remember that? ALL MOO

I still want to know what means "Call the wolf!" or similar. Anybody has an idea now after 3 years and 100 witnesses??

 

[Mikala]

IMO...ms followed dm like a puppy dog. smetch's gf said smich was in love with dellen which implies a little more than your regular bromance. Mallard and smich can write love letters to each other in prison for the rest of their life for all I care. I wish they still had capital punishment in Canada for cases like this. I hope they come to a verdict asap for these two and send them to a cell for the rest of their lives. Someone posted that in the US courts have limits of a year to have a murder cases come to trial and it has been two years for this case to come to trial as Canada does not have legislation of this nature. Justice delayed is justice denied. IMO it gives the criminals lots of time to lawyer up and get their stories carefully scripted to support the case that both the defense and the prosecution are attempting to build. The former partners in crime of Mallard and Smich are testifying to attempt to save themselves from prosecution. IMO evil walks amongst the family of the victim and there is something intrinsically wrong with this. In a lot of ways ...justice must be seen to have been done but the length of time this has taken to get to trial and the fact that the family is watching these people testifying against their buddy dellen and then walking free and around them in the court room is not seeing justice in my opinion. Particularly for the family of the victims, it is victimizing and the fact that they are having to revisit this over two years later is not a good thing. This should have been cut a dried and would have been if they got this to trial in a timely manner. Thanks for your thought provoking comments.

You are correct, it's certainly taken a long time to get to trial, but I also believe a lot of the delay was the ongoing investigation, and of course the additional murder charges, making everything so much more complex. With respect to scripting their cases, only so much scripting can be done when you are faced with evidentiary facts. It's pretty difficult for witnesses to all lie, without something not adding up and standing out. I do believe that justice will be served here in the end, but for the Bosma family it is a terrible journey to have to take.

 

[billandrew]

"May 7: Brendan Daly testifies that he was waiting outside Marks house for pot when DM dropped MS off. MS blew past BD. Marlena came out of the house with the weed and said 'you guys better get lost'."

Does anyone know the time this occurred? Seems that MS went from celebration mood to something else within hours, or possibly minutes. Timelines show that DM and MS didn't get back together until around 7:00 pm Tuesday after MM and MS were dropped off, and were still at the farm around 11:30 p.m.


MOO

IMO this interaction happened on Thursday, May 9 between 9:00-9:30pm. DM and MS had just removed TB's truck from the hangar after finding out about AJ's call to Crimestoppers, and DM was dropping MS off and heading to Etobicoke to pick up CN. Both of them would have been shaken up by the news that the police might be onto them soon, and by the end of that night after DM was finished moving evidence around, he sent MS a reassuring text at 4:46am, "Retooled for stormy weather, all clear."

Oh how wrong he was. :jail: