Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #11

[hellkat2]

Huh? They celebrated because the mission was a total success.

The mission being that the theft of the truck was completed.....come hell and high water. But they hadn't totally done the switch out. DM would get the diesel and he would unload his old one. Hypothetically speaking he would not keep the two as too much heat involved. And he needed money to meet his monthly obligations. He stated this in some text....he needed to get a quote of $$$$$ and in a year he would be in the clear and he and Smich could chill and do rap music.

 

[hellkat2]

I agree and am thinking if she admits now she knows where it is, she would incriminate herself for hiding the whereabouts of a concealed weapon used in murder, perhaps
IMO.

Bingo again Claroon. I think you are onto something here.

 

[hellkat2]

ok, unless you perjure yourself.

Which when you have a bunch of lawyers asking you questions to the point where you paint yourself into a corner I would think could actually happen. In fact there is a high probability of this occuring in a lot of cases. Isn't that what lawyers try to do?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Then the one they be driving to hypothetical border would be DM's old truck. Or driving it to the container unit waiting at the shipping dock. He didn't need two. Especially the hot one. He needed some money. Needed to make a quota of $$$$$ to meet his financial obligations.

The mission being that the theft of the truck was completed.....come hell and high water. But they hadn't totally done the switch out. DM would get the diesel and he would unload his old one. Hypothetically speaking he would not keep the two as too much heat involved. And he needed money to meet his monthly obligations. He stated this in some text....he needed to get a quote of $$$$$ and in a year he would be in the clear and he and Smich could chill and do rap music.

Of course there's no evidence to support anything you're saying. You're just hypothesizing, and I think you're way off.

DM lacked sophistication and outside help in all of his criminal efforts.

 

[Inspector_North]

I don't know why this makes a difference. I am not getting where all this is going. There has been mention of walkie talkies and look outs. And maybe MM wasn't where she said she was.

That is exactly my point. If we have doubts about how and when she heard about DM's arrest, it puts her whole testimony at risk, IMO. I am satisfied that videos, texts, and other evidence put both of them at the scene of the crime, and it also shows planning an all nighter mission. MM's testimony of their mood when they picked her up is very revealing ....... if those pieces like how she heard of the arrest around 9:00 p.m. on the 10th can be verified. I do realize that MM's testimony is really about MS, but so far there is substantial missing evidence of his intentions or knowledge of the murder. CN's testimony, I would assume will be the exact opposite, mostly about DM.

We all know they were both there. But was this a planned theft and murder? I am 99.9% sure it was, and would just like verify loose ends that should be able to be verified.

Is there evidence someone contacted MS when he panicked and called AM that "they got Dell"?
or
Is there evidence that DM's arrest was on the news as early as she claims?

My questions are based on what we know, not what we are going to know by the end of CN's testimony. It may be important, and it may not.

I don't understand how you can say you believe MB or CN contacted MS without a shred of evidence? I'm just asking if we can prove something we heard by a witness, a star witness.

MOO

 

[hellkat2]

this has evolved Into a game whereby the lawyer with the best ability to provide doubt as to validity of the evidence, "wins" and his client who is most likely truly guilty of murder gets away with a lesser charge and lesser sentence. And this is justice? This will satisfy the public and the Bosma family that those responsible for Tim's death are truly serving a life sentence for their crimes?

Murder is the worst crime and should be treated as such. These 2 low life's don't respect human life and therefore do not deserve to have any chance of freedom ever. They lost that right when they chose to kill an innocent man for no reason than a thrill and a used hunk of steel! Their ability to choose right from wrong is non existent. Rehab doesn't work for these types of monsters.

Life in prison with no chance of parole is the only solution for these two. The general public should not ever have to worry about these psychos being free to start up their perverted lifestyle of thieving and killing again.

I agree....life in prison for the two. And it cannot happen soon enough. The family should be delivered justice quickly and not let these evil creatures walk amongst them in that court room. I cannot stand this.

 

[Inspector_North]

Huh? They celebrated because the mission was a total success.

BINGO! If MM's testimony holds up under cross examination, her testimony of their mood holds much weight with respect to MS's involvement. Not supposed to be used, but it will also impact DM.

You stated it as a fact that you believe to be true, and fact checking a witness where possible is important.

MOO

 

[matou]

I wonder when all of the texts between Smich and Millard will be released.

 

[Elisabeth]

Before all the evidence of the plan to use the incinerator began to mount, they might have been able to claim several hours planned for cleaning and prepping the truck for painting and a VIN switch and getting it hidden in the trailer before anybody showed up for work on the 7th. But I think we're past the point of credibility on something like that.

and I believe that they didn't have the device to remove the windshield yet either. that was ordered by SS later this week. (but i supposed maybe they didn't realize they needed that device- a truck person could weigh in...is it obvious you need a special device to pop out a windshield without breaking it? ). So in other words, they weren't ready to get it all done in the same overnight period.

Note: I mean they didn't even have everything they needed to complete a pure truck theft mission overnight. They needed the overnight just for basics in dealing with a murder. They could have waited to do any of the truck theft tasks. Those aren't time sensitive the way a murder clean up would be.(and still leave the truck in the hangar)

I speculate as I do not have links to testimony about the device.

edit: sorry someone already posted about the windshield remover. I am reading recent back and should read the other way!

 

[Elisabeth]

BINGO! If MM's testimony holds up under cross examination, her testimony of their mood holds much weight with respect to MS's involvement. Not supposed to be used, but it will also impact DM.

You stated it as a fact that you believe to be true, and fact checking a witness where possible is important.

MOO

They (the jury) can use her testimony that they were both celebratory against both DS and DM. She witnessed both directly.

The jury cannot use her hearsay about what MS said about DM against DM.

 

[Inspector_North]

They (the jury) can use her testimony that they were both celebratory against both DS and DM. She witnessed both directly.

The jury cannot use her hearsay about what MS said about DM against DM.

You're absolutely correct. That makes MM's perceived credibility even that more important. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

From AC's live blog, Apr 6 2016 11:53 AM
Dungey says Smich helped his girlfriend Marlena Meneses get her life together. "She had a drug problem, she had a bad boyfriend," Dungey says. Daly says he doesn't know about that.

I am prepared to be amused to hear how someone like MS who drinks, smokes and tokes daily can help someone with their drug problem, except to be the kind of bad example you don't want to be.

TD's going to try to paint MS as MM's savior, when in fact she dropped out of high school to slum with him.

 

[Inspector_North]

and I believe that they didn't have the device to remove the windshield yet either. that was ordered by SS later this week. (but i supposed maybe they didn't realize they needed that device- a truck person could weigh in...is it obvious you need a special device to pop out a windshield without breaking it? ). So in other words, they weren't ready to get it all done in the same overnight period.

Note: I mean they didn't even have everything they needed to complete a pure truck theft mission overnight. They needed the overnight just for basics in dealing with a murder. They could have waited to do any of the truck theft tasks. Those aren't time sensitive the way a murder clean up would be.(and still leave the truck in the hangar)

I speculate as I do not have links to testimony about the device.

edit: sorry someone already posted about the windshield remover. I am reading recent back and should read the other way!

DM has demonstrated that he researches toys he is interested in. Even IT made a comment that DM was knowledgeable about the diesel truck he was selling. I have worked on vehicles over the years, and through that experience and various news about VIN swapping, had learned of the process. It has been in the news over the years, mostly done to get vehicles written off back on the road. He most likely researched and knew exactly what was involved in the morphing of the truck, and had substantial interest and experience in vehicle rebuilding.

DM demonstrated through evidence we heard, that he has a very bold approach to covering his tracks. The decision to not cover up his tattoo during his test drives, is another example. I guess bold or stupid is still up for consideration. The evil part seems to be concluding.

MOO

 

[hellkat2]

Of course there's no evidence to support anything you're saying. You're just hypothesizing, and I think you're way off.

DM lacked sophistication and outside help in all of his criminal efforts.

Of course this is hypothetical. I may be way of but it could be he met some sophisticated criminals at his Baja races in Mexico that he loved so much. Sophisticated Mexican cartel types would swarm an unsophisticated criminal type like Dellen and his band of thieves like bees to honey. Or flies to fly paper.

 

[hellkat2]

That is exactly my point. If we have doubts about how and when she heard about DM's arrest, it puts her whole testimony at risk, IMO. I am satisfied that videos, texts, and other evidence put both of them at the scene of the crime, and it also shows planning an all nighter mission. MM's testimony of their mood when they picked her up is very revealing ....... if those pieces like how she heard of the arrest around 9:00 p.m. on the 10th can be verified. I do realize that MM's testimony is really about MS, but so far there is substantial missing evidence of his intentions or knowledge of the murder. CN's testimony, I would assume will be the exact opposite, mostly about DM.

We all know they were both there. But was this a planned theft and murder? I am 99.9% sure it was, and would just like verify loose ends that should be able to be verified.

Is there evidence someone contacted MS when he panicked and called AM that "they got Dell"?
or
Is there evidence that DM's arrest was on the news as early as she claims?

My questions are based on what we know, not what we are going to know by the end of CN's testimony. It may be important, and it may not.

I don't understand how you can say you believe MB or CN contacted MS without a shred of evidence? I'm just asking if we can prove something we heard by a witness, a star witness.

MOO

I have a bad feeling about this star witness. I think she has been discredited already by saying she heard about it on the news. I don't think that is simple problem related to her recall of the event. I am making hypothetical statements in response to questions about motives etc. That is how I can make statements without a shred of evidence. It is simply coming up with probability theories. I believe that if a witness is not credible that you cannot believe a lot of what is said. And basically you are left with why the witness would be evasive. What is the motive. I don't think there is anything anyone could say about this case in discussion that would not be a theory. Based on the witnesses that all seem to be part of DM band of car thieves.

 

[hellkat2]

From AC's live blog, Apr 6 2016 11:53 AM
Dungey says Smich helped his girlfriend Marlena Meneses get her life together. "She had a drug problem, she had a bad boyfriend," Dungey says. Daly says he doesn't know about that.

I am prepared to be amused to hear how someone like MS who drinks, smokes and tokes daily can help someone with their drug problem, except to be the kind of bad example you don't want to be.

TD's going to try to paint MS as MM's savior, when in fact she dropped out of high school to slum with him.

Yes this will be amusing.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Of course this is hypothetical. I may be way of but it could be he met some sophisticated criminals at his Baja races in Mexico that he loved so much. Sophisticated Mexican cartel types would swarm an unsophisticated criminal type like Dellen and his band of thieves like bees to honey. Or flies to fly paper.

Sorry, but you're saying a Mexican drug cartel might have approached Dellen Millard to import stolen mid-range trucks all the way from eastern Canada? One at a time?

Obviously everyone gets to entertain any theory they want--we certainly learned that in the first couple of years on these threads--but sometimes you have to apply Occam's Razor.

DM wanted to run his own little empire, not be beholden to some shadowy crime org half a continent away. JMO

 

[leafs_fan93]

I wonder when all of the texts between Smich and Millard will be released.

Well according to reports, after MM there is one police officer and CN to go. Perhaps that police officer will be the last witness, and deliver the nail in the coffin?

 

[Inspector_North]

Well according to reports, after MM there is one police officer and CN to go. Perhaps that police officer will be the last witness, and deliver the nail in the coffin?

It has been mentioned that this particular police officer was the one who testified earlier about the DVR seized in CN's bedroom. He was told to not talk about the second item found at that time. Opening statement mentioned several letters found in the bedroom from DM asking CN to show a key witness how he could change his statement. Hopefully DM was stupid enough to give everyone a before and after description in those letters.

I still don't see these remaining witnesses a real threat to MS's involvement. Unless CN has something she was told in both their presence.

MM's ability to survive cross examination will be crucial to MS getting first degree. He is definitely guilty of other things, but so far MM seems to be the crown's star witness for the charges against MS. BD's testimony didn't do much for premeditated, and most of the other witnesses were DM's circle. Even AM said he only knew DM's shady sidekick only through DM's ventures.

MOO

 

[leafs_fan93]

It has been mentioned that this particular police officer was the one who testified earlier about the DVR seized in CN's bedroom. He was told to not talk about the second item found at that time. Opening statement mentioned several letters found in the bedroom from DM asking CN to show a key witness how he could change his statement. Hopefully DM was stupid enough to give everyone a before and after description in those letters.

I still don't see these remaining witnesses a real threat to MS's involvement. Unless CN has something she was told in both their presence.

MM's ability to survive cross examination will be crucial to MS getting first degree. He is definitely guilty of other things, but so far MM seems to be the crown's star witness for the charges against MS. BD's testimony didn't do much for premeditated, and most of the other witnesses were DM's circle. Even AM said he only knew DM's shady sidekick only through DM's ventures.

MOO

I wonder if the crown would be better served to have those letters read to the jury before or after her testimony? I ask this assuming she is a reluctant witness?