Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[deugirtni]

I'm with Just4TB on this one...
Personally, I'm a 5'2", 115lb LADY, whom in a bit of a "temper" shall I say, hoisted up my significant other and toss him over my shoulder and threw him on the ground. He is 6'5" tall and approx 190lbs.
IMO, mental state has a lot to do with capabilities.
For the record, I am just stating this to share that imo, it would be possible for DM to lift Tim himself. *scampering away now after this confession*
Bobcat use makes sense to me but it would be noisy at night and he neighbor is close by, was there reports of the neighbor hearing machinery?

Yes, kind of like what that 'The Incredible Hulk' tv show was all about. The adrenaline thing.

Bobcats aren't all *that* noisy, especially with windows closed and neighbours being a distance away. Why did DM ask AM for the bobcat keys in advance? It was located at the farm. I could see him asking about the keys if he happened to require the bobcat for something he was doing at the hangar at the time, but he seems to have been tied up with stealing a truck, hiring and acquainting a new accountant, a business proposition with someone and holding meetings with various parties, keeping up with keeping the various girlfriends happy, getting renos completed at his Riverside property for himself and CN. One might wonder why he was even thinking about a bobcat at that particular point in time. Seems he really may have tried to think of every eventuality in regard to this mission. moo

 

[Arnie M]

I mean by his personal contacts. I know my phone has a lot of personal stuff on it. I don't own a computer.

As for the locking of the belt. Yes, I also understand that. But according to MS, DM swerved and pulled over. This may lock the belts. I get frustrated with our Ram, slight braking causes them to lock.

Gotcha' , thanks

 

[redheart]

Have I missed some tweets, or has he ever expressed remorse to the jury or the Bosmas for at least his version of his role?

No, he hasn't. I was shocked that Dungey didn't have him give a "heartfelt" apology, appropriately lowering his voice every time he uttered Tim's name.

 

[Mscree]

He said in his testimony they waited by his truck for him

 

[redheart]

OT:

Kingston Pen is offering tours again this summer.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/kingst...ors-to-the-public-again-this-summer-1.2901002

 

[brightii]

Meh, I think he got MS'S disclosure and played that part for himself. He mentioned his shoulder injury a few months later...."oh, I can't remember if I've told you about my shoulder" (sorry, not exact wording from letter). I took that as a "hint" for CN to testify that he had an injury and she "helped" him with it. And She did it, she claimed she'd been helping him with his shoulder for weeks prior to the murder. That was one reason why I felt CN was still in love with DM and protecting him while on the stand.

You could be right, but it could be that DM actually did strain his shoulder moving TB and he just wanted to get CN to say the injury was prior to the murder in case MS ever did suggest that DM alone moved TB from the truck into the incinerator, IMO. If it's true what MS is saying happened, it seems plausible that DM could have strained his shoulder, IMO. True or not, DM mentioning an injury does IMO work to support MS's testimony.

All MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Have I missed some tweets, or has he ever expressed remorse to the jury or the Bosmas for at least his version of his role?

No, he said he didn't feel guilty, and gave that as his first excuse for not going to police.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

The crown didn't mention any type of a struggle, simply that Tim was shot by the accused in the truck. The truck passed Kemira both ways so the phone could have been tossed before the Bobcat or after it. If we accept the Bobcat as the place that Tim lost his life, and if we accept that he remained in the passenger seat of his Ram until his death, IMO it is unlikely that he would have tossed the phone himself. It would have required a throw out the truck from the passenger side to Kemira on the other side of the road, and thus presumably over the truck, over the other side of the road, over the shoulder of the road, and over the fence of Kemira. Perhaps it's possible but it doesn't seem likely. Occam's Razor suggests that the phone was taken by one or other of the accused after Tim's death, wiped down as testified to (perhaps the wiping is what initiated that brief access of data on the phone - you can accidentally start apps when cleaning a phone screen) and then thrown into Kemira as they left the area, which would now be on the same side of the road.

Im remebering what Brightii did. I went back to AC's trial tweets and it's not on his or ABro's blog. I'm thinking a differnt reporter (probably AP lol) did state "after a struggle". I'll keep looking because I do recall that being said.
NOT that I'm arguing that fact, just I'm curious where the heck I read that.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes the testimony about the changing of plates I found kind of shocking. Did they bring the plates with them everytime they scoped out a truck?

Calculated preplanning to the nth degree, imho. First DM makes arrangements with Mr.V fo use the red Ram.. then realizes he will also need the Yukon to tow The Eliminator.. removes the plates from the ram in advance and puts them into the Yukon. He was a very busy bee. This is something that wasn't discussed prior to MS's testimony, as far as I know. This is a little detail that could have been left out, but wasn't, and it leads me to put more weight on MS's testimony that the multiple others who had to have info dragged out of them, and still didn't want to spill. In saying those few words, MS has in effect admitted preplanning on DM's part (already had the plates ready during the 'test drive to scope out TB's truck' which suggests that in DM's mind at least, this wasn't just a scoping of a truck, and what did he therefore plan on doing with TB when he stole the truck with him in it?), and AATF for himself.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Yes, kind of like what that 'The Incredible Hulk' tv show was all about. The adrenaline thing.

Bobcats aren't all *that* noisy, especially with windows closed and neighbours being a distance away. Why did DM ask AM for the bobcat keys in advance? It was located at the farm. I could see him asking about the keys if he happened to require the bobcat for something he was doing at the hangar at the time, but he seems to have been tied up with stealing a truck, hiring and acquainting a new accountant, a business proposition with someone and holding meetings with various parties, keeping up with keeping the various girlfriends happy, getting renos completed at his Riverside property for himself and CN. One might wonder why he was even thinking about a bobcat at that particular point in time. Seems he really may have tried to think of every eventuality in regard to this mission. moo

Yeah, adrenaline is something I keep meaning to bring up. I'm a 5'5" female, and based on the way TB's build was described (something like 160lbs, I think?), if I was hyped up and desperate enough, I think I could have done it myself, especially with something to assist like a sheet (sorry). I do lift weights, but not super heavy ones.

This doesn't mean I necessarily believe DM did it by himself. I think if MS was as freaked out by DM as he claimed to be, and knowing DM also had a gun, I feel like I would have been too afraid to refuse. MS may have overplayed his position by adding the detail of refusing to touch the body. Just not sure.

...then again, no gloves with his DNA found. Maybe he was just more careful? (Or am I forgetting glove DNA results again?)

...and on the other other hand, dude did seem sickly/hung over/injured, and I'm kind of surprised he didn't just keel over that night. Back to adrenaline?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

YES !!! .... I have been thinking the same thing ..... it sounds like TB's truck was a bit of a beater ($24k - older - trans repaired) compared to Igor's truck (newer $32k)

Two days after Marks testimony I am believing it less and less ... at least the scoping-to-steal-later part.

Not to mention, you need the key for these trucks. It's possible to hot wire them but not by 2 dimwitts and is a very complicated task. Not something like DM and MS could do in the dark.

MS testified that they smashed windows to pop the hood on other vehicles. IMO, they smashed the windows to "try" and hot wire them and failed. So they needed the truck key, which means they need the driver. IMO, I believe DM intended all along to murder the truck owner to get that key! I also believe that AM knew this and that's why he told DM to F-off.

 

[Mscree]

Not to mention, you need the key for these trucks. It's possible to hot wire them but not by 2 dimwitts and is a very complicated task. Not something like DM and MS could do in the dark.

MS testified that they smashed windows to pop the hood on other vehicles. IMO, they smashed the windows to "try" and hot wire them and failed. So they needed the truck key, which means they need the driver. IMO, I believe DM intended all along to murder the truck owner to get that key! I also believe that AM knew this and that's why he told DM to F-off.

I agree to the point of Am knowing

 

[CJPRINCESS]

In regards to the "struggle" I knew I wasn't going mad. It was said but not in the trial.

Also according to the source, police said after Bosma’s body was found that they believed he was killed in his truck following a struggle.
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/..._man_was_killed_inside_truck_source_says.html

 

[brightii]

Im remebering what Brightii did. I went back to AC's trial tweets and it's not on his or ABro's blog. I'm thinking a differnt reporter (probably AP lol) did state "after a struggle". I'll keep looking because I do recall that being said.
NOT that I'm arguing that fact, just I'm curious where the heck I read that.

Thank you! I was beginning to doubt my memory.

I thought I had read about the struggle on Abro's blog where she initially posted the Crown's Opening Statement from her notes on the first day of trial, but later she updated that post and I scrolled through it today and couldn't find any mention of a struggle, IMO.

However, I did find an article from the Toronto Star which clearly mentions that police thought TB had been shot during a struggle inside his truck, IMO.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/..._man_was_killed_inside_truck_source_says.html

All MOO.

Eta - great minds, CJPRINCESS! Lol neither of us are mad!

 

[Nosey Parker]

No, he hasn't. I was shocked that Dungey didn't have him give a "heartfelt" apology, appropriately lowering his voice every time he uttered Tim's name.

A huge strategical error IMO. I expected Dungey to close his direct with exactly that. The jury needs to hear remorse if his client is to get second or less. Makes me really wonder about the abrupt cut off yesterday. Even the judge appeared surprised.

 

[redheart]

A huge strategical error IMO. I expected Dungey to close his direct with exactly that. The jury needs to hear remorse if his client is to get second or less. Makes me really wonder about the abrupt cut off yesterday. Even the judge appeared surprised.

I think MM expressed more remorse for her actions (or lack thereof) than the rest of that crew combined. Including MS.

 

[andreww]

A huge strategical error IMO. I expected Dungey to close his direct with exactly that. The jury needs to hear remorse if his client is to get second or less. Makes me really wonder about the abrupt cut off yesterday. Even the judge appeared surprised.

I disagree. Remorse suggests he feels guilty, and thats the last thing he wants to project.

 

[Tealgrove]

A huge strategical error IMO. I expected Dungey to close his direct with exactly that. The jury needs to hear remorse if his client is to get second or less. Makes me really wonder about the abrupt cut off yesterday. Even the judge appeared surprised.

The quick end to court proceedings yesterday was weird. If all they had was another 20 minutes or so of testimony why not finish it up on Wednesday? It hardly makes sense to drag the jury in for such a short period of time. IMO something was amiss. Not sure what, but something changed I think.

As for the gun and burying the gun, my first reaction was, "who buries a gun"? I found that "solution" to the problem bizarre to be honest. I know the thought has been that since MS wrapped it in duct tape prior to burying it indicated that he might go back for it. A reasonable idea but it wouldn't be what I would do.

That gun is the thing that ties me to the murder and I know it. I don't want anyone to ever find it. I would be just getting rid of it real quick. Bronte Creek, Sixteen Mile Creek, Lake Ontario for goodness sake! That gun would be at the bottom of some body of water and since I had options it would be my first thought.

What do I know? MOO

 

[redheart]

I disagree. Remorse suggests he feels guilty, and thats the last thing he wants to project.

But if he's admitting to helping with cleanup - AATF, then he should be showing remorse for that part. (Of course I think he is guilty of much more than that, and likely only feels remorse that he was caught.)

I can't believe that Dungey would have made an obvious mistake, so there must be another reason.

 

[Nosey Parker]

The quick end to court proceedings yesterday was weird. If all they had was another 20 minutes or so of testimony why not finish it up on Wednesday? It hardly makes sense to drag the jury in for such a short period of time. IMO something was amiss. Not sure what, but something changed I think.

As for the gun and burying the gun, my first reaction was, "who buries a gun"? I found that "solution" to the problem bizarre to be honest. I know the thought has been that since MS wrapped it in duct tape prior to burying it indicated that he might go back for it. A reasonable idea but it wouldn't be what I would do.

That gun is the thing that ties me to the murder and I know it. I don't want anyone to ever find it. I would be just getting rid of it real quick. Bronte Creek, Sixteen Mile Creek, Lake Ontario for goodness sake! That gun would be at the bottom of some body of water and since I had options it would be my first thought.

What do I know? MOO

I totally agree, and have always thought of Lake Ontario. Not too far of a bike ride from Speers, and no little busy-body dog gonna dig it up from there! IMO he knew exactly where that gun was going ahead of time - and it wasn't a local ravine.