Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[hopingforjustice]

Lol, someone questioned CN on her ankle bracelet (the ballgame pic) Looks like she doesn't need to have a chaperone or wear her anklet anymore. I assumed she'd have these stipulations untill her trial?

I saw that. If that is true I think someone needs to explain why. It was a condition of her bail that the attorneys and judge on behalf of the people ordered. We as the people have a right to ask why that condition was lifted for no reason and demand to be put back in place until such time as she has answered to her own trial. This makes me angry. JMO

 

[Mscree]

It seems that his former girlfriend MM, and even perhaps more importantly his mother and sisters do not believe, or support him now either. None of them have ever come to court to offer support by their presence, as far as I have been able to determine. In fact, I don't think either MS, or DM have had anyone come and sit in court, who was there as friend or family.
I
There was a websleuth member some time ago, who attended court, in the early days, and mentioned that a middle aged blonde woman was seated in the viewing area, who smiled at DM when she came in. He seemed to recognize her, and smiled back. Later during a break the webleuth member tried to engage her in conversation, but she was very vague, and did not reveal who she was. It is possible she was the woman who wrote to him while he was in prison. I think her name, or pen name was something like "Dee". The bottom line, looks to me like neither of these guys has anyone who was close to them before the arrests, believing or supporting them now, unless MB is staying in the background, still trying to believe in her only child, and doing what she can to help him. IMO

His mom and sister Ms were said to be present in court the day it was noted he had a new yellow dress shirt. I also am now believe the middle aged blond women to possibly be the letter writer Dee

 

[Mscree]

Because that is what the business plan was.....theft ring........steal vehicles for money, use the hangar for a chop shop. DM verbalized needing to move 100,000 a month to stay above water.

I don't believe the theft ring business the only things he stole for was for himself

 

[hellkat2]

<modsnip>I'm not trying to defend the guy but at least he has done something a lot more worthy then what his former buddy has been doing in prison.

I do know that psychopaths educational pursuits usually get used for evil not good so i don't see it as doing something worthy. The worst example I can give you is when Karla Homolka got her psychology degree. I will focus on the family of the victim and justice. The amount of time that it has taken to get this to trial is not justice. Justice delayed is justice denied. It has taken 3 years. What these two do from the time they committed their crimes and go to court makes no difference to me. Call be bitter.

 

[Claroon]

I thought so too. AM was a good friend of LB, this is how LB and DM met, no?
Not sure why you would want a full sleeve of a deceased murdered girl, whom one of your best friends murdered.
This story will visibly be with him, after the court case is done, would you not want to distance yourself from it?

I missed where you peeps saw it?

 

[DMB]

I'm unfamiliar with how things work in the Canadian system but I wondered if maybe Dungey thought he could present the most believable story in one day, give the jury a chance to believe it was a possibility in the overnight hours, then let Smirch say he didn't remember where the gun was. Would Dungey have thought there may be a possibility that the judge would have started cross immediately thereby glossing over the fact that Smirch may not be being forthcoming?

Sorry, this probably doesn't even make sense. But Smirch kind of had me the first day but coming back on the second day and not remembering such an important detail made me not believe anything he said. Going back through testimony of the first day he seemed to be just covering his tail.

I believe TD went through only what MS had told LE in his original arresting statement that was made after MM's video plea to him. We know he did make a statement as DM mentions in his letter's to CN that treacherous Mark got himself "charged" by blaming everything on DM.

If that is the case then Mark can only touch upon what he had originally said in that statement, anything else would be considered new evidence opening up the possibility that DM "could" then again have the opportunity to present a defence. The first day was going just fine until it was mentioned that "another girl" was also present at the planning to steal the car along with AM, MM, MS and DM?????? Nobody had made that statement prior, not sure if it was information being withheld because of the CN trial coming up. Anyways, not sure if this was intended by TD, however, something or someone interfered in some way that TD not risk anything by disclosing the whereabouts of the gun as MS's original statement said he did not know at that time nor today where that gun was. They also made a point to say that he does not nor ever owned a gun which nobody can or will dispute.

 

[hellkat2]

I agree, but I also think his smart lawyer, may have advised him that it would make him look more responsible, and trustworthy --- same for the conservative hair style, and clothes he wears to court.

IMO

My guess is lawyers advise these things because sometimes criminals do the right things for the wrong reasons and that good things can still possibly come from it. (I have swampland in Florida for any who would actually believe this).

 

[Mscree]

It's on his fb. With his new flaming skull the tatt says I remember with no name. I'm not convinced myself it's for her especially with that much cleavage

 

[hellkat2]

CBC reported that MS's mother and a sister (didn't specify which one) did in fact attend court for at least one full day. No photos of them were shown.

I believe the link was posted here but am not at my computer right now so can't search for it easily. Perhaps someone else can supply it.

However, it can't always be determined what support, or how much, an accused has from family based on whether those family members attend court during the trial. It is quite common for family members not to do so; perhaps it distresses them too much, or they fear the mob of media, or whatever - they don't get to communicate with their family member in court anyhow. A better gauge of family support is visits to the person while incarcerated, providing amenities, further education etc. (Karla Homolka's bachelor degree in prison was paid for by her family).

Family support is a major determinant of parole application outcomes: a convicted person with strong family and/or community support is much more likely to successfully re-integrate into "normal" life than one who does not have these things. But we rarely get a glimpse of what support an accused (or convicted) person has from the outside. Thankfully, the media for the most part respect the privacy of the families concerned.

Karla Homolka's family paid for her psychology degree. Imagine what a diagnosed psychopath like Karla is gonna do with that.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I agree, but I also think his smart lawyer, may have advised him that it would make him look more responsible, and trustworthy --- same for the conservative hair style, and clothes he wears to court.

IMO

I agree with you.

 

[hellkat2]

hellkat2
I don't believe the theft ring business the only things he stole for was for himself

Why did DM have a mechanic on his payroll? Just to help him steal things that he might need for himself? Why did he not lease the hangar out to legitimate people requiring hangar space? To store his car collections? I would say that it wouldn't be a leap to say that thieves don't just steal for profit, they also steal for their personal use . But interesting conclusions you have come to. I think DM thought he would make more money illegally than legally. There was a news article from a man who was involved in DM's fathers business who met with DM because he had people who wanted to lease the hangar and DM was stonewalling him.

 

[hellkat2]

I missed where you peeps saw it?

Google Toronto Sun

 

[brightii]

I don't think DM ever will. I think MS might be just realizing that now. At least he did something to better himself while in jail.

It's easy for many people to be cynical about MS getting his GED while in jail awaiting trial, but I'm not among those who think his efforts have no value. I do suspect that TD has had a great deal of influence over MS since his arrest and no doubt TD spelled out to MS exactly what MS should do with his time. I also think it possible that MS has had time to reevaluate his priorities with respect to his loved ones and it seems that his connection with them has a strong influence on him now whereas in the past perhaps he took his family and relationships for granted.

I agree that MS getting educated, changing his appearance and behaving himself while incarcerated during these past three years is an important part of the plan for his legal defence. Appearances matter in court, and I'm sure TD knows that MS having a more average-guy appearance will work with the jury to MS's advantage. Still, though I do think these things are calculated to a great degree, TD could only suggest such changes to MS and could not force them upon him. MS had to do the work required.

I've always thought that MS is a better candidate for rehabilitation than DM, and the changes MS has made - and seemingly sustained - over these few years demonstrates to me that at least he is making an effort. Sometimes the "fake it until you make it" approach works because good habits replace old habits and with practice become more ingrained. In any case, getting an education is good for MS as the better educated he becomes, the more likely he will be prepared to grow in self-esteem and in the ability to accept responsibility for himself and his actions. One day MS will likely leave prison, if he is convicted, and if so I hope he uses his time well to better himself because if he was to remain stagnant, hopeless or embittered, he would have no chance of redemption. I do think he must be punished, but I believe his sentence should be imposed with mercy.

All MOO.

 

[Mscree]

Why did DM have a mechanic on his payroll? Just to help him steal things that he might need for himself? Why did he not lease the hangar out to legitimate people requiring hangar space? To store his car collections? I would say that it wouldn't be a leap to say that thieves don't just steal for profit, they also steal for their personal use . But interesting conclusions you have come to. I think DM thought he would make more money illegally than legally. There was a news article from a man who was involved in DM's fathers business who met with DM because he had people who wanted to lease the hangar and DM was stonewalling him.

He wasn't into the aviation thing anymore he wanted the hanger for his toys it's been stated by many people including the guy from Texas sorry I can't think of his name. That's why mom applied for the permit for that shed thing on the farm property. So they could get the hanger functioning as intended. He wanted to have inventions remember?

 

[Typhoo1961]

Why did DM have a mechanic on his payroll? Just to help him steal things that he might need for himself? Why did he not lease the hangar out to legitimate people requiring hangar space? To store his car collections? I would say that it wouldn't be a leap to say that thieves don't just steal for profit, they also steal for their personal use . But interesting conclusions you have come to. I think DM thought he would make more money illegally than legally. There was a news article from a man who was involved in DM's fathers business who met with DM because he had people who wanted to lease the hangar and DM was stonewalling him.

DM wouldn't get his crap (trophies from his thefts) out of the hangar. I think his father was putting his foot down about it and got himself killed.

 

[Claroon]

I have been thinking through MS testimony. Some questions:

1. Why would DM choose to gas up Yukon mid-murder? Planning would have included full tank of gas!
2. Perhaps he was getting propane or whatever the incinerator runs on? Again, you'd think he would have done ahead of time.
3. Shooting Tim in his own truck just caused more cleanup for them. No logic to have done it that way
just my own thoughts.

Good thoughts, I did read this the other day "May 1 ?? Millard asks Schlatman about gas running out on Yukon before empty line. Asks why that could be happening"

 

[palisadesk]

Karla Homolka's family paid for her psychology degree. Imagine what a diagnosed psychopath like Karla is gonna do with that.

Well, she did her evil deeds before she got her degree, so perhaps she studied enough child psychology to help her raise her children. She has stayed out of trouble since her release. While it's a popular idea that KH is a "diagnosed psychopath," that's not actually the case. She was tested with the PCL-R several times, by different test administrators, and she doesn't come close to being a psychopath. Bernardo does, but not KH. He scored 35 (max is 40), but KH scored 3 one time and 5 another.

People can be bad people without being psychopaths.

 

[Claroon]

I've gone through that scenario with others here. According to them as I was told, you cannot get propane late at night.

unless you use bolt cutters to break into a propane cage.

 

[flipflop]

I saw that. If that is true I think someone needs to explain why. It was a condition of her bail that the attorneys and judge on behalf of the people ordered. We as the people have a right to ask why that condition was lifted for no reason and demand to be put back in place until such time as she has answered to her own trial. This makes me angry. JMO

CN lied on the stand in a court of law....why would we believe her on social media!!!

 

[Alethea Dice]

Great questions! I wish we had more answers.

Apparently AM told MH that DM would want MS to have the toolbox even though DM instructed MH to hold onto the toolbox. I wonder what happened after DM's arrest that led AM to make that decision? i would love to know what the "lies told"' were, as per MH's testimony, that led to MH and AM falling out as friends?

If none of the three (AM, MH, MS) knew that the toolbox had a gun (or 2 guns) inside, I wonder why MS would not have called AM back when he discovered to his alleged surprise that the toolbox had a gun inside of it? We know AM and MS were communicating by phone at that time. Wouldn't it seem reasonable that MS would tell AM that there was some kind of mistake and ask him to take back the toolbox to MH and hold onto to it for DM? MS would not necessarily have had to discuss what he found inside of it. I wonder if any conversations about the toolbox and/or its contents happened between MS and AM after MS had possession of it? Perhaps MS thought AM and/or MH were in on the plan with DM to frame MS? Or perhaps MS thought they knew there was a gun (or 2 guns) inside the toolbox and that DM told them that they belonged to MS and they believed DM? So many possible scenarios.

All MOO.

I think MS knew what was in the box. How do you think he knew who to get it from? As far as I can tell, the only people who knew DM had dropped the box off with MH was himself and CN. So how did MS know to ask Andrew to get it from MH and bring it to him with the bag of weed? Maybe when DM visited him on the 10th before his arrest, MS was freaking about where the gun was and DM told him he had dropped it off and it would be safe with MH. Or I suppose he could have just told him that, if anything happened, MS could get his oxy's back from MH. But then, I don't believe MS's story anyway, and I don't believe he had a bum shoulder either. That was just his excuse to keep getting those orange guys he liked so much.

I don't know how many guns were in the toolbox (my guess would be one), but I do believe that MS did own a gun. Why would he tell his best friend that he did? Or why would his best friend lie about that? Why would he need some practice ammo if he didn't have a gun?

“Five fingered you some practice ammo,” says a text from Millard’s phone to Smich’s on April 15, 2012. He included a photograph of 10 bullets.

“I did research,” is the reply. “The short ones are [g]ood for what u got. The ones with flat heads like u have already. Round ones will jam.”

“Yea short ones are called .380 longer ones are called 9mm,” came a response from Millard’s phone. “These ones I grabbed are the short .380’s.”

Those messages are 2 months after DM's meeting with MWJ to buy the Walther. And yet, another 5 months later, in September 2012, there are more messages with MWJ.

Sept. 12, 2012, there are text messages between Millard’s phone and a person he calls “Isho.” Isho says: “If u wait till we do our own u might get it cheaper.”

“It’s new? 3 eighty?” is the reply from Millard’s phone.

“Brand new if I tell the guy going tomorrow possible we have it on the weekend.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/texts-show-millard-smich-were-looking-for-specific-model-truck-tim-bosma-was-selling-crown

Did MS get the hand-me-down?

All JMO