Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[canadiangirl]

Well I could have said gives MS his storyline.

Knowing how much DM was concerned for Pedo, you'd think he wouldn't leave him in the car alone in the dark. I'd think someone would be there with Pedo.i.e. 3rd party, or even 4th. IMO

I find the dog in the car alone suspicious. Not leaving the dog alone. But. Have you ever left your own dog alone in a car? When you open the door a dog is happy to see you. Sooo. You're telling me the dog is that we'll behaved he wouldn't jump and lick and maybe jump out of the truck with excitement as SOON as the door opens and you jump inside? It's risky. Especially having to call a dog back in the middle of a field if he does get loose.

I'll always think there was someone else involved. Regardless if there was any evidence of a 3rd. There's also no evidence there wasn't. Still my gut feeling. JMO

 

[Arnie M]

This is still interesting to me:

"Jones agreed it could support a theory that a bullet came from the driver’s side, that a bullet came from the back seat, or even that bullets came from both."


BBN

Sgt. Robert Jones has to say it that way ..... he is presenting crown evidence and cannot rule out anything .... he does not know exactly what happened , and 3 years later neither do we

Did the generator run on gas?

He didn't use the generator , he towed the incinerator to the hangar and used a wall plug

IMO the blood in the bed wasn't addressed much.
.

Blood in the bed could have been transferred there while washing the truck , most of it was in the bottom of the corrugated box liner where water accumulates after you wash it.

Here's my wild theory (forgive me those who don't like wild theories). A third person followed, witnessed, and was shot and put in the truck bed, burned as well so there would be no extra witnesses. Today's guess

Yeah ... that invisible third driver who went to Tim Hortons but ended up in a hay field. But they didn't have to shoot him or burn him , he just became invisible again. He is actually a troll who lives in a culvert in the park where Mark buried the gun

 

[Arnie M]

Why do witnesses swear on the bible before testimony?? Clearly, they lie or twist the truth to their benefit when answering questions. In fact, it is common knowledge that TD coached MS prior to taking the stand and is clear in the answers given. Seems hypocritical to swear and take oath to tell the truth, then lie.

Haaaa.... years ago I read a Lawyer book about strange and unexpected things that can trip up a court case .... I will paraphrase it from memory .....

The most honest person in the courtroom

COURT STAFF .... do you swear to tell the truth , the whole truth , and nothing but the truth
DEFENDANT ..... no
JUDGE ....... you cant answer that way , please take the oath properly and swear to tell the truth
DEFENDANT .... I swear to tell the truth only if it is in my favor but if it harms my case I will not .
JUDGE ... you cannot pick and choose , you are in court now and you must speak the truth
DEFENDANT ... but I am speaking the truth .... I would be lying if swear to tell the truth and that's the truth and I haven't even taken the oath yet.
JUDGE .... sigh .... then just plead the 5th amendment if your answers will incriminate you
DEFENDANT ... but you never made the policeman plead the 5th when he was asked hard questions about the mistakes he made when he arrested me . You just let him keep saying "I dont recall" , or "I dont remember" and you let him get away with it and he was lying and you know it your honor and you know that is the truth right ? Remember you have to tell the truth in court your honor
JUDGE .... sigh , point taken , court will break for recess.

 

[mskrisc]

His mom and sister Ms were said to be present in court the day it was noted he had a new yellow dress shirt. I also am now believe the middle aged blond women to possibly be the letter writer Dee

It's also suspected "Dee" hangs out in a FB group under another alias fighting for DM.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This is still interesting to me:

"Jones agreed it could support a theory that a bullet came from the driver’s side, that a bullet came from the back seat, or even that bullets came from both."


BBN

My thought now: IF DM shot TB more than only 1x and IF MS wasn't present in the truck and IF MS didn't hear how many bangs rang out - then I can imagine why a cartridge case endet up between seats. DM had become a lunatic and didn't know how many cases to search; MS wasn't present and didn't know how many cases to search. So they failed to find the case which was discovered by an officer later.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't think at that time of night it would be well traveled. And there are no street lights. I think there are multiple details we may never really find out about. I supposed what CJ Princess is saying is that MS missed out on something like did DM leave TB in the front seat while driving?

MS said the front passenger door was open and TB was laying on a sheet when MS returned from his outlook with Pedo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think DM really had them fooled. They didn't think he could be so ruthless. That's why they tried to get rid of evidence and frame MS. IMO

... and DM told his "stories" only in bits to different friends, I think. Nobody knew everything - very clever.

 

[Inspector_North]

I've always believed it was CN who told AM about the toolbox after DM's arrest on the evening of the 10th. We also now know that MB and CN had dropped by Maplegate to get cash etc., and that's where AM was also living, in the late hours of May 10th or the wee hours of May 11th, so maybe the toolbox and what to do with was discussed at that time?

All MOO.

BINGO!

What was the rush that night to get DM's cash? More likely to speak with AM.

May have not been a conspiracy, but CN most likely had opportunity to speak with AM. AM did have some damaging testimony, but according to the crown, it took some time for that to happen, around page 40 of a 60 page statement.

MOO

 

[ABro]

Thank you for your reply.

AM did not come across to me as a credible witness and it's not because I wasn't present when he testified, (although I'm sure being in court makes quite a big difference), it's because I do think AM could have had reasons to lie, one being that he himself had been charged with first degree murder and would have had great incentive to protect himself and put himself in a positive light and distance himself from anything that could have incriminated him, IMO. TD did go aboard of AM and emphasized the fact that AM lied in the first 60 pages of his statement. That may be common, but it too made me suspicious of AM.

I didn't get the idea that there was no love lost between CN and AM from either of the testimonies on the stand and I thought that both spoke very little of the other. Also the fact that MH said at the beginning of his testimony that his friendship with AM ended because of "lies told" has always made me wonder what those lies were.

You're right in what you say in another post later tonight, and I admit to being one of those people who is frustrated by not knowing the whole truth and I do find it difficult to accept that we likely will never know. As for witness credibility, I guess the jury will make up their minds about each one, but I do imagine that there will be differences of opinion among the jury just as there are here among us.

All MOO.

Every witness has the incentive to put themselves in a positive light. That's pretty much a given. AM said on the stand he initially lied to police to protect himself. In contrast, MH kept insisting he lied because he didn't think DM could be involved and because he was worried about his family. AM did not hide his face when he left court. MH did.

TD's theory that AM lied about Mark wanting the toolbox to protect DM doesn't really hold up given that AM's testimony was very damning to DM including the comment that DM stole for "the thrill."

Also, DM's own letters indicated Andrew was telling the truth.

The big question for the jury re AM will be if Mark told him to bring the toolbox or if AM deliberately dumped it on unknowing Mark to help DM.

Certainly it's in MS's interest to say it was dumped on him. But I don't see that it's in AM's interest to say MS asked for it. Such a statement doesn't help AM in any way, and while it may help DM, the rest of AM's testimony didn't.

 

[musicaljoke]

Thank you for your reply.

AM did not come across to me as a credible witness and it's not because I wasn't present when he testified, (although I'm sure being in court makes quite a big difference), it's because I do think AM could have had reasons to lie, one being that he himself had been charged with first degree murder and would have had great incentive to protect himself and put himself in a positive light and distance himself from anything that could have incriminated him, IMO. TD did go aboard of AM and emphasized the fact that AM lied in the first 60 pages of his statement. That may be common, but it too made me suspicious of AM.

I didn't get the idea that there was no love lost between CN and AM from either of the testimonies on the stand and I thought that both spoke very little of the other. Also the fact that MH said at the beginning of his testimony that his friendship with AM ended because of "lies told" has always made me wonder what those lies were.

You're right in what you say in another post later tonight, and I admit to being one of those people who is frustrated by not knowing the whole truth and I do find it difficult to accept that we likely will never know. As for witness credibility, I guess the jury will make up their minds about each one, but I do imagine that there will be differences of opinion among the jury just as there are here among us.

All MOO.

We could always ask the dog. He's certainly not less credible than some of the witnesses.

I wonder how Pedo responds to the sound of gunshots.

 

[Mscree]

if he knew fuel gauge was broken, all the more reason to fill tank before mission!!!!

Sounds like they did a lot of travelling. It is a gas pig. You missed the second half did they use it to burn seats clothes ect? Remember the plumes of smoke the farm neighbour saw?

 

[Sphinx]

Lol, someone questioned CN on her ankle bracelet (the ballgame pic) Looks like she doesn't need to have a chaperone or wear her anklet anymore. I assumed she'd have these stipulations untill her trial?

Why did she not have to wear it to court the day she testified ? It was obvious the day she wore her red high heeled shoes that no ankle bracelet was present.

 

[mimimic]

Hmm. Smich asks Millard if MM can chill with pedo while they do their thing & then sends the pics. All in the same conversation? Anything at all said by either of them about the actual pics or no?

I don't recall DM responding to the pictures.

 

[mimimic]

So ... If I'm understanding the way the rest of the process works, the Crown may have introduced the texts hoping the jury would get the gist, BUT:

1) They can't ask either defendant what it meant, not even now that MS has given testimony. Correct?

2) DM's lawyers would have to be crazy to bring it up

So ... It's basically going to remain in the state it's currently in, pretty damning seeming but without further elaboration?

No idea what the jury will make of it. I don't remember gremlin girl's post but I remember being shocked and posting something or other, and being surprised at the lack of other comments at the time it came in.

And the press not making a bigger deal of it doesn't really mean anything since the jury isn't supposed to be reading the news coverage, I assume.

I suppose the Crown could bring it up again in close? Or do I have that wrong.

(What I'm doing here is both trying to guess how the jury reacted, and figure out if they will have further exposure to the info.)

I think this is definitely of interest. Has the question by a few WS's been answered yet...can the crown question any/all facts or just testimony that MS made with TD?

 

[Daveandmorley]

Make sure to use google images, not just plain Google. Sorry for omission!

 

[mimimic]

.

Nighttime , dark , outdoors .... Mark can remember seeing DM put a gun in his satchel

Nighttime , dark , outdoors .... Mark cannot remember where he biked to bury the gun

If DM exited the truck as soon as he parked...possible he saw. Like IT said about MS -fishy

 

[Daveandmorley]

Hi there! I am a long time lurker with a deep empathy for the Bosma family. I think I finally found a clear CN pic. Go to google and search "rubikinks sangria lounge". Last face pic is looking like her. Ugh.

Just a quick addition! Make sure to search in google images, not just plain Google

 

[Tealgrove]

Why did she not have to wear it to court the day she testified ? It was obvious the day she wore her red high heeled shoes that no ankle bracelet was present.

I'm just guessing here, but I think they may have allowed her not to wear it in court as the jury may have been swayed in a prejudicial manner if they see a witness coming in with an electronic monitoring device on their ankle.

MOO

 

[hellkat2]

I think the fact that many of DM's friends testified against DM shocked him, as I think DM was convinced that they all idolized him and he absolutely expected that their loyalty to him should trump any consideration for themselves and the predicaments he got them into. Even AM, who I think reluctantly testified against DM, who was initially charged with first degree murder, even before DM was so charged, and yet in DM's letters his only concern was for himself, expecting that AM should lie and recant his statement about the planned truck theft. So, yes, DM I believe was shocked that MS too decided to testify, and that shows me how out of touch with reality DM is because he has sat beside MS for the past few months at trial and from all reports there is no more friendship between them, and MS is also facing life in prison, and still I believe DM expected that MS should sacrifice himself to save DM! Only DM matters in his own twisted mind.

I can't wait until LB's trial when I believe we will have so many now missing puzzle pieces neatly put into place. At that trial, if DM defends himself without benefit of legal counsel, and if MS retains TD for the LB trial, I think DM will be convicted. He has no skills to defend himself as his letters to CN show, and he will only incriminate himself if he acts as his own lawyer. I really want to see what evidence there is that relates to both DM and MS in the LB murder and I hope there is enough to convict them both.

All MOO.

DM's employees are all revolting against him. He should not be surprised. That is what happens when you don't pay them.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I'm just guessing here, but I think they may have allowed her not to wear it in court as the jury may have been swayed in a prejudicial manner if they see a witness coming in with an electronic monitoring device on their ankle.

MOO

It should have been put back on after she was finished testifying. If one believes what she says on her instagram, it wasn't.