Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[JuneBug67]

Who is that?

I only know this Gilligan.

http://www.gilligansisle.com/images/mate.jpg

Yeah, that's him. Haven't seen The professor around lately, have you.

Yo, this is a tale of a tiny ship
I got my 380 on my hip
You don't wanna see this you better dip.
Yo.

 

[sleuther76]

I think it's quite probably nothing. Standard look what I'm cooking pic, with high five joke.

Definitely, I don't see anything malicious here, just a stupid joke

 

[JuneBug67]

I agree. I do not think it was fair to compare any of this to Vince Gilligan and Breaking Bad in the first place.

It is a fact that Smich's lyrics contain some autobiographical references. Drinking and alcoholism, smoking pot, thieving, possessing a .380 gun; these are things that were all true in his real life. Unfortunately, he introduced fantasies of violence and killing into these lyrics as well. This will carry some weight in the minds of those tasked with deciding whether he actually acted out any of these fantasies in real life.

There are elements of things he knows for sure, perhaps like an author setting a story in their hometown. There is no evidence though that the stories he weaves are reality based. We don't for example believe that he killed a kid for going to the cops.

I agree that it may sway some jurors. I don't agree that it should.

 

[Just4TB]

Yeah, that's him. Haven't seen The professor around lately, have you.

Yo, this is a tale of a tiny ship
I got my 380 on my hip
You don't wanna see this you better dip.
Yo.

:lol: thanks!!

 

[Typhoo1961]

Yeah, that's him. Haven't seen The professor around lately, have you.

Last I heard he had a couple of his buddies out looking for the gun.

 

[billandrew]

There is no evidence though that the stories he weaves are reality based.

There is evidence that he was involved in killing someone with a .380. Am I misunderstanding what you've said?

 

[JuneBug67]

There is evidence that he was involved in killing someone with a .380. Am I misunderstanding what you've said?

He rapped about killing a kid for going to the cops, which as far as we know didn't happen. What I meant to convey is that you are being selective about what you are deciding is relevant and real, and beyond that the original and more important point remains that the conclusion that he killed somebody is embedded in your premise in the first place. It's circular and not convincing, though I agree with you with regret that the lyrics have and will contribute to convincing some.

 

[Claroon]

I am not sure ... But I think it has some potentially coded significance due to the date/time sent.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I wonder if it holds something other than first aid items? I don't think the time is anything special. I might speculate SS did a delivery for him of drugs, smokes, orange guys, and is showing him where he's left them, or found bloody clothes in the bag. Who knows?

 

[billandrew]

He rapped about killing a kid for going to the cops, which as far as we know didn't happen. What I meant to convey is that you are being selective about what you are deciding is relevant and real, and beyond that the original and more important point remains that the conclusion that he killed somebody is embedded in your premise in the first place. It's circular and not convincing, though I agree with you with regret that the lyrics have and will contribute to convincing some.

Contrary to what you've suggested, I have not been selective nor have I drawn any conclusive points from Smich's lyrics. I'm simply drawing connections and inferences based on the facts, and assigning weight and probability in the context of other evidence. Smich wrote about using a .380 to kill someone, and then he was implicated in a killing where a .380 was used. His lyrics contained autobiographical references as well as non-biographical references. I'm not ruling out that the lyrics could be completely unrelated to the reality of this case, but the connection in my view still contains some weight and should not be dismissed.

By the way, I think this has been a great debate and I hope you do not feel like I'm trying to prove that I'm right or that you are wrong. Rather, we are challenging each others reasoning, and I appreciate that we can do so respectfully.

 

[Sphinx]

It seems to "five finger" means to steal or rip off.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=five finger

They were planning to steal a truck from a man, and the five fingered sausage " high five " may also imply excitement and an anticipatory celebratory mood about not only getting the truck,( and a much desired red cadillac as payment for MS) but killing and incinerating the owner. I think MS found the thoughts of shooting and incineration to be something he was very much enjoying in a sick way. He felt so powerful, they got away with it before, and would get away with it again, leaving no trace of a body. This guy was all in for the violence and "fireworks" mayhem, just like he had been in the death of LB, and perhaps unknown others. I think that is why DM "loved" him so much -- kindred spirits. Pictures of him at his sisters' wedding appear to me that he was gloating and reveling in being the big important gangster man. He had not succeeded at anything else in life. I also think some very good, intelligent people on this site just have trouble getting their minds around the depth and depravity of such evil, because they cannot think that way themselves. I took quite a few psychology courses, in university, and studied psychopaths, so I think I have a different viewpoint. I could not comprehend the way their minds work for a long time either. I still do not want to dwell on it. All just my own thoughts. Murder one for both of them, and thank God LE caught them before they killed and incinerated many other victims. IMO

 

[Sphinx]

Well your theory suggests that they did not intend to kill which i think they did given all the BBQ talk.

The man who made the trip from Georgia, representing the Incinerator Company that produced the eliminator said on the stand that from looking at interior pictures that the incinerator had been used more than once. He was immediately shut down by the judge and the lawyers as I recall, and I think the jury was sent out. I think this is because it was used for the murder of LB, and we know that both DM and MS are also charged with that, and have to stand trial for it in the future. I agree, they both intended to kill, given all the BBQ talk, and we know they called the incinerator the BBQ. IMO

 

[Just4TB]

They were planning to steal a truck from a man, and the five fingered sausage " high five " may also imply excitement and an anticipatory celebratory mood about not only getting the truck,( and a much desired red cadillac as payment for MS) but killing and incinerating the owner. I think MS found the thoughts of shooting and incineration to be something he was very much enjoying in a sick way. He felt so powerful, they got away with it before, and would get away with it again, leaving no trace of a body. This guy was all in for the violence and "fireworks" mayhem, just like he had been in the death of LB, and perhaps unknown others. I think that is why DM "loved" him so much -- kindred spirits. Pictures of him at his sisters' wedding appear to me that he was gloating and reveling in being the big important gangster man. He had not succeeded at anything else in life. I also think some very good, intelligent people on this site just have trouble getting their minds around the depth and depravity of such evil, because they cannot think that way themselves. I took quite a few psychology courses, in university, and studied psychopaths, so I think I have a different viewpoint. I could not comprehend the way their minds work for a long time either. I still do not want to dwell on it. All just my own thoughts. Murder one for both of them, and thank God LE caught them before they killed and incinerated many other victims. IMO

I agree.
I also admit I am allowing the LB murder charge on MS affect my decision process. It is my speculation that the LB trial will bring evidence against MS and DM, of likely even greater disgusting enjoyment of killing, death and indignity.

 

[canadiangirl]

I agree.
I also admit I am allowing the LB murder charge on MS affect my decision process. It is my speculation that the LB trial will bring evidence against MS and DM, of likely even greater disgusting enjoyment of killing, death and indignity.

I don't understand why the LB trial wasn't first.

 

[XiolaBlueX]

I was in the courtroom when rap video was shown while MS was on the stand. It wasn't the lyrics that made the most impact on me, it was the juxtaposition of him in the video vs on the stand. Very different persona. It definitely showed a glimpse of a different kind of attitude and it was a reminder that he probably often put on bravado for His crew, including DM. A complete subculture (could picture him perhaps using a gun to intimidate TB and do a planned robbery, this type of attitude prob led to much credibility in his social circle)

 

[billandrew]

I was in the courtroom when rap video was shown while MS was on the stand. It wasn't the lyrics that made the most impact on me, it was the juxtaposition of him in the video vs on the stand. Very different persona. It definitely showed a glimpse of a different kind of attitude and it was a reminder that he probably often put on bravado for His crew, including DM. A complete subculture (could picture him perhaps using a gun to intimidate TB and do a planned robbery, this type of attitude prob led to much credibility in his social circle)

Thanks for sharing. One could argue that the persona in his video is an act, just a character that he is trying to portray. Certainly that "character" is desired by fans of that style of music, and so it is reasonable to imagine Smich acting out this character in pursuing a rap career and trying to appeal to those fans. Similarly, it would be a strong mischaracterization to conclude that the person in that video is reflective Smich's true character.

It's not black and white. Smich's character in the video isn't necessarily who he actually is, but to some extent it could reflect his state of mind and certain elements of his character. The same could be said of his character on the witness stand. The same could be said of his rap lyrics: where do they fall on the spectrum of reality vs fantasy?

My point is that it all falls somewhere in the middle. We cannot simply dismiss all of this evidence as fantasy, nor can we cannot accept it as truth about who he is or what he did.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I don't understand why the LB trial wasn't first.

I have wondered about that too.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I have wondered about that too.

They were arrested on this one first so it's working it's way through the system first.

 

[Sphinx]

I don't understand why the LB trial wasn't first.

It is my understanding that the trials happen in the order that charges were originally laid by LE. MS and DM were charged with the murder of TB before LB, and in the case of DM, also his own father, which will likely be a separate trial as well, unless he admits guilt. IMO

 

[canadiangirl]

Too bad it wasn't in the order in which it occurred. I think we'd probably get a clearer picture in the events leading up to that day

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

 

[Miranda16]

I don't understand why the LB trial wasn't first.

Me either but I guess (total guess) that it is a combination of the investigation essentially starting later, higher number of witnesses in the TB trial (and need to bring them in as memories fade), and less overall evidence