Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #17 [06.03.16 to 06.09.16]

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One further point about MS's cell phone. Again, clearly it has been entered into evidence through text message that he was having a problem with his phones. Many texts asking to link to Ipad as his phone was "f....d", why is his actual testimony, which is evidence ignored for the more popular version that he intentionally turned off his phone and then again used and lost his SIM card to avoid producing evidence???? When he was arrested he had on him one phone which held a SIM card. We are led to believe that he hid or destroyed the other. Could it be too difficult to believe that this piece of evidence the size of a nickel and thickness of a dime could have been lost or overlooked in the midst of the takedowns and searches?

<rsbm> and bbm

Really, I don't recall hearing that MS had a cell on him (with a SIM in it) when he was arrested. 4 phones were found in a bag at MM's sister's place. He pointed to the one phone he said he used but I believe MM testified to not knowing where that phone was.

Not sure why LE would lie and say there wasn't a SIM card found? What would they possibly gain by saying that instead of gathering evidence from it?
 
Was SS looking for a new job? Was JV? Both worked for Millard and He found it better to pay with necessities over cash. Same deal with Smich. They stole items Millard could use and Millard would pay for his necessities.

This show that for all three men that there was a business agreement or "partnership" in effect. Whether Millard followed through on his promises or not, a deal was certainly made.


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SS was paid well. Right up until 2015 actually. JV didn't get paid, only in the beginning. But I guess by that reasoning AM an MH were also part time employees?
 
All relative when you are broke like MS. I'm sure he felt Isho was wealthy as well.


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His family lived in Oakville and his sister was known in her line of work. I'm sure he knew what the meaning meant just because he didn't hold a job.
 
No, no, not directed at you by any means. As one a small group who believe that there is not sufficient evidence to convict MS of first degree we are constantly reminded to look at the "totality" of the evidence so when I see something that is presented or omitted as evidence I feel I must point out the discrepancy. Make sense?
 
SS was paid well. Right up until 2015 actually. JV didn't get paid, only in the beginning. But I guess by that reasoning AM an MH were also part time employees?

Good point! We all know that DM's interest was in vehicles, and SS was a key to keeping them running. So it seems natural for DM to pay SS well. JV was not recruited by DM like SS, but rather worked for WM first. DM had an interest in property investment, and JV was a key to renovations and hanger construction/maintenance. However, DM did mention that he was only breaking even with his real estate ventures, and that may be one reason for the erratic payment schedule and the methods he paid JV.

DM most likely believed he was gifted like his grandfather and could come up with ideas (dreams) of successful business ventures. To my knowledge he was never successful, but the dream of building up the farm property was most likely a goal of DM. His manipulative ways had him leveraging the farm property before he even broke the shovel in the ground.

SS, JV, CN, and MB were all promised a piece of this dream. A dream from the one Millard that never succeeded at anything that required an honest days work.

AM, MH and many others that DM manipulated for a few bucks were all several years younger and were still easily managed with promises of parties, drugs, and vacations. SS and JV were past that point in their life, and had families to support.

MOO
 
No, no, not directed at you by any means. As one a small group who believe that there is not sufficient evidence to convict MS of first degree we are constantly reminded to look at the "totality" of the evidence so when I see something that is presented or omitted as evidence I feel I must point out the discrepancy. Make sense?

Makes sense but I'm not seeing a discrepancy in what I posted.

Crown said a Deer was incinerated in their closing. Something we haven't heard before then. I asked hunters (there are a few here) if a Walther. 380 would kill a deer at far range as we know deer are skiddish creatures and one wouldn't get close enough to shoot one at close range. We have NO entered evidence of anyother firearms, other then a Walther. 380 handgun(s)
 
I don't think it was proven MS advised which one to buy. It said he was looking at a mobile unit and chopping wood be necessary.

How does that not prove that he was involved in looking for one? It doesn't even matter if his advice was considered. It just matters that he had foreknowledge. This is a key piece of evidence in my mind.
 
There was also more to that conversation that is being omitted. Cant find it on the time line either. More of the research regarding recycling, heat production???? Not as ominous as "wood chopping" IMO

He was just reading off stats of the possible equipment wasn't he? Because you can't exactly find a human-body-burning incinerator for sale on the Internet. They had to look for the closest suitable alternative - some of which had features not required by homicidal maniacs
 
Makes sense but I'm not seeing a discrepancy in what I posted.

Crown said a Deer was incinerated in their closing. Something we haven't heard before then. I asked hunters (there are a few here) if a Walther. 380 would kill a deer at far range as we know deer are skiddish creatures and one wouldn't get close enough to shoot one at close range. We have NO entered evidence of anyother firearms, other then a Walther. 380 handgun(s)

Paraphrasing, but the crown said that the only evidence of the Eliminator being used for something else was a text from DM to SS that he tested the incinerator on a deer. There is no evidence or timeline for when or if this occurred.

MOO
 
Thank you for finding this JuneBug, I believe it says so much and about what MS and SS truly believe and were led to believe about the incinerator. How can you base a case on MS on his involvement in the purchasing and usage of the "barbecue" and leave out this particular text. This is not MS designing his case around the evidence, this IS evidence clearly showing what he was thinking at the time of the purchase in June of 2012. His actual testimony backs up this piece of evidence that he thought DM wanted the incinerator for garbage.
I also want to point out that MS DID have a shoulder injury, I believe a dislocated shoulder which he also clearly texts about the pain PRIOR to the incinerator usage and once again testified to. Again, not designing his testimony to fit the evidence but confirming the reason why he did not assist DM.
One further point about MS's cell phone. Again, clearly it has been entered into evidence through text message that he was having a problem with his phones. Many texts asking to link to Ipad as his phone was "f....d", why is his actual testimony, which is evidence ignored for the more popular version that he intentionally turned off his phone and then again used and lost his SIM card to avoid producing evidence???? When he was arrested he had on him one phone which held a SIM card. We are led to believe that he hid or destroyed the other. Could it be too difficult to believe that this piece of evidence the size of a nickel and thickness of a dime could have been lost or overlooked in the midst of the takedowns and searches?
We are constantly reminded to base our opinions on the "totality" of the evidence but are ignoring key parts which are important as they ARE documented evidence and not merely just theory

The texts are being left out in it's totality to show that MS planned and knew what the incinerator was for. Just like the sausage pictures and fireside furniture weren't linked until well afterwards, and the only place we saw them was from AH from the National Post.
When we did see them, many were underwhelmed by this "damming evidence".

In regards the MS shoulder injury it is also collaborated as in the evidence pictures at Smich's mother's home, there was a calendar in his bedroom and a note on the fridge with drs apt/MRI including the dr name.

As for the phones, yes MS did say his phone was f....d. and as many have pointed out, we didn't actually need Smich's SIM card, MM pointed out the actual phone at trial
SIM or not, damaging text messages should be recovered from it. And in reality the evidence needed should've been on DM's phone from MS
for the planning of this murder. Texts were recoverable on DM's phone, Apple took care of that for LE. So why not MS texts to DM??
The answer for that seems to be, they didn't need to plan via text, they met up. DM spilled a whole lot of information to AM via texts and he lived with the guy. And if that's the case, how can you say someone had knowledge of something when there is no way to prove someone's knowledge? MOO
 
How does that not prove that he was involved in looking for one? It doesn't even matter if his advice was considered. It just matters that he had foreknowledge. This is a key piece of evidence in my mind.

It doesn't prove he knew the use was for nefarious reasons. He's quoting the specs of an incinerator.
SS built and ordered one, and completed the test burn saying how awesome the afterburner is in the thing.
Does that mean he knew too??
 
He was just reading off stats of the possible equipment wasn't he? Because you can't exactly find a human-body-burning incinerator for sale on the Internet. They had to look for the closest suitable alternative - some of which had features not required by homicidal maniacs

And it seems very strange that a $23,000 incinerator was never used to burn garbage in its first year of existence. Instead we hear about testing it on a deer. Why? We know the pet cremation business was never discussed with his uncle. In fact, I think both DM and RB knew a partnership was never an option.

MOO
 
Paraphrasing, but the crown said that the only evidence of the Eliminator being used for something else was a text from DM to SS that he tested the incinerator on a deer. There is no evidence or timeline for when or if this occurred.

MOO

Yes, I get that but it's still text evidence between DM and SS regardless of when. We know there was a homemade incinerator that failed (obviously tested) and a bought one within weeks of each other. We know there was a successful trial burn shortly after the Eliminator arrived at the hanger and shortly after LB was missing.

Do I believe they shot a deer (with a Walther. 380) and incinerated it? No I don't buy it! Do I believe that the Deer is code for LB? Most definitely as do many others here believe.
 
It doesn't prove he knew the use was for nefarious reasons. He's quoting the specs of an incinerator.
SS built and ordered one, and completed the test burn saying how awesome the afterburner is in the thing.
Does that mean he knew too??

Do you actually believe that an MS three years ago was the one DM assigned garbage incineration research to?

Like the crown said, MS had no interest in garbage. Yet MS seemed interested in testing the incinerator late at night in one of his texts.

MOO
 
Good morning :smile: I've created a thread for today's proceedings, looks like they may be tweeting from the courtroom. I'll open the thread shortly and let you know.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...a-Murder-Trial-06-10-16-Day-59-Charge-to-jury

Many thanks to anyone that can post tweets. :cupcake:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?299854-Bosma-Murder-Trial-Twitter-Roll-Call/page10


Susan Clairmont@susanclairmont
Tim #Bosma murder trial starts 9:30 with legal arguments followed by Justice Goodman's charge to jury. Doors locked during charge. #HamOnt
 
Smich could have moved to the middle easily and shot towards the passenger side. Millard would have to shoot while driving or while at an intersection where there might be witnesses. From Trinity road the first stop or intersection is Wilson street so if he suddenly stops for no reason before then bosma will take notice. Any one of those scenarios is pretty risky... Much less risky than having the guy in the back do it. Just doesn't appear a logical choice for the driver to be the shooter when better options are available. Not like smich doesn't know his way around a gun

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In between Trinity road ad Wilson street, there are also parking lots, and moreover, the Ancaster fairgrounds that provides several places to pull over as well as entrances to the large property that In my observations aren't always gated off. Whether it be to turn around, or for DM (hypothetically) to say lets pull over and look at something to do with the truck before its pitch dark. (Although it would have been getting pitch dark fast,so not sure about that part obviously)
anyhow, my point is, IMO plenty of areas to comfortably pull into, or turn around in before the first main intersection up the road at Wilson and Trinity. Obviousy supersucker had a video camera, but not sure how many if any more.
 
Yes, I get that but it's still text evidence between DM and SS regardless of when. We know there was a homemade incinerator that failed (obviously tested) and a bought one within weeks of each other. We know there was a successful trial burn shortly after the Eliminator arrived at the hanger and shortly after LB was missing.

Do I believe they shot a deer (with a Walther. 380) and incinerated it? No I don't buy it! Do I believe that the Deer is code for LB? Most definitely as do many others here believe.

DM also said in a letter to CN that he was just cleaning up MS's mess. Was DM known to lie to his minions?

I wonder who helped him test it on the deer? Couldn't be SS according to the text, and I don't see him doing this by himself.

MOO
 
Sooo complicated. What was the tape for?
Recently I was trying to find evidence of any tape recovered also, but for some reason can't and also can't recall. Does any body know? I know that there was a claim IIFC of MM saying duct tape was used to cover the gun in before 'burial' - however, does anyone know if any masking tape or duct tape was found somehow/ somewhere and tied into the main night in question?
it is MS testimony that the tape and gloves were for painting with. Obviously masking tape could lend itself to this, but obviously not so much the duct tape.
 
Do you actually believe that an MS three years ago was the one DM assigned garbage incineration research to?

Like the crown said, MS had no interest in garbage. Yet MS seemed interested in testing the incinerator late at night in one of his texts.

MOO

What do I actually believe? I believe that MS did things for DM just like everyone else did, without being given the real reason.
And I also believe it's entirely possible MS did not know of DM's full plan regarding the incinerator.
And I believe DM lied to everyone around him about this incinerator.
The crown said lots of things, they also said TB was shot in the field. I'm not sure if I believe that either. MOO
 
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