Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #17 [06.03.16 to 06.09.16]

[Alethea Dice]

I dont take it as disrespect at all I dont see the contradiction persay, maybe clarification.
I dont know that DM was looking for a fall guy. Willing participant sure. But it has been said that DM did all the planning. I didnt see any evidence of MS calling MH or AM asking if they were coming along for a mission.
It was all DM making those calls, deciding what to take and who to drag along for the ride. They were all willing to go.
For this particular mission, I was stating it wouldve been easier to have MS go along on a theft mission if in fact in DMs mind it was DM take the truck at any cost mission in his eyes.
Since we know MS has the sketchy past, it would be easier then AM or SS taking the fall, and MS would have the most to lose having prior run ins with LE.
And when I say gang mentality, meaning, they all have each other backs. The bro code. So Im quite sure DM was counting on everyone to say nothing, not just MS if stuff ever went sideways.
I would say based on his letters to CN plus how out in the open he talked to AM, dropping the gun off at MH, asking CN along etc, he really wasnt worried about anyone squeeling on him, but instead
he counted on all of them to help cover it up. MS included.
This seemed to be the case for most, if not all the key players. They gave up very little in their testimonies even when subpoena to court. They told only what they had to, had sketchy memories and didnt know much at all. MOO

We've seen lots of texts of MS suggesting missions for DM to check out. And MS testified that they did many missions together and only a couple involved walkie talkies, and suggested that there were a lot that did not involve the other people.

 

[canadiangirl]

We've seen lots of texts of MS suggesting missions for DM to check out. And MS testified that they did many missions together and only a couple involved walkie talkies, and suggested that there were a lot that did not involve the other people.

I saw 3 texts in 2012 around the same days and 2 in 2013 IIRC, but it's unclear what these other so called missions were. Or if it was MS trying to talk the talk? I know he was on the stand for many days and I don't recall that but I won't ask you to source it either lol

 

[Alethea Dice]

BBM

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by the bolded part. Could you please elaborate? TIA



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The Crown has not been able to establish who brought the gun nor who shot TB. They have presented it as that it doesn't matter who did it because the murder was planned by both. None of the experts could establish even where the gun was shot from. All we have to go on is our own opinions of the various things presented. So one would have to have no reasonable doubt that it was DM who fired the shot in order to believe that MS could possibly not be guilty of murder.

I'm not sure I'm explaining this right, but for example, if it was actually MS who did the shooting, which many believed here not too long ago, than it would be impossible for this to be only DM's plan and for MS to be unaware of the plan and,therefore, only guilty of AATF.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

The Crown has not been able to establish who brought the gun nor who shot TB. They have presented it as that it doesn't matter who did it because the murder was planned by both. None of the experts could establish even where the gun was shot from. All we have to go on is our own opinions of the various things presented. So one would have to have no reasonable doubt that it was DM who fired the shot in order to believe that MS could possibly not be guilty of murder.

I'm not sure I'm explaining this right, but for example, if it was actually MS who did the shooting, which many believed here not too long ago, than it would be impossible for this to be only DM's plan and for MS to be unaware of the plan and,therefore, only guilty of AATF.

Thank you ... I understand what you mean now [emoji846]


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[Alethea Dice]

I saw 3 texts in 2012 around the same days and 2 in 2013 IIRC, but it's unclear what these other so called missions were. Or if it was MS trying to talk the talk? I know he was on the stand for many days and I don't recall that but I won't ask you to source it either lol

Maybe he was just trying to talk the talk, but he also said that other scoping missions for a truck never turned out so maybe that was some of them. He said there were so many, he couldn't remember what they were.

...Cause all of the other times that we scoped out the exact same kind of vehicle, nothing ended up coming of it." #Bosma May 24, 2016

Thanks for not asking me to source, but I remembered the testimony and did double check it on the tweets spreadsheet, so I'm glad I don't need to look up the line number again. I'm pretty sure it was AC's page for the others as well as the one above. I only checked his and MH's.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zxyo_MC4bf28IMfFvSuu5ETlebQlyw__2QSDhYkGxMU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1345322707

 

[NashBridges2]

Does everyone understand that it doesn't matter who shot him, or who was in what vehicle when the shot was fired. Even if MS was not in the truck, it doesn't make him not guilty.

 

[DMB]

Does everyone understand that it doesn't matter who shot him, or who was in what vehicle when the shot was fired. Even if MS was not in the truck, it doesn't make him not guilty.

Actually it does matter very much, because, as we have been told repeatedly it is the totality of the evidence and if this is not proven I really don't feel that there is any more premeditation on MS part then there is with AM, CN or SS. Apparently what sets MS apart from the rest of the gang IS the fact that he WAS with DM on that night

 

[Alethea Dice]

Does everyone understand that it doesn't matter who shot him, or who was in what vehicle when the shot was fired. Even if MS was not in the truck, it doesn't make him not guilty.

That would only apply if the jury was to determine that the Crown has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the murder was planned and deliberate by both MS and DM. If they feel there is reasonable doubt to meet first degree for both, then they would need to decide whether one or both were guilty of which lesser charge.

JMO

 

[Oreck]

I found this. Worth a read.
Accessory-after-the-fact charge rarely used.

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=975b2445-fd9d-4005-bebc-9dc1ba429b18

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Actually it does matter very much, because, as we have been told repeatedly it is the totality of the evidence and if this is not proven I really don't feel that there is any more premeditation on MS part then there is with AM, CN or SS. Apparently what sets MS apart from the rest of the gang IS the fact that he WAS with DM on that night

No disrespect here, but from what you have stated in this post, you don't seem to be basing your conclusion on the totality of the evidence at all. You seem to be stuck on a single point here.

May I ask you what your impression is of all the text messages in context, combined with MS/DM purchasing gun(s) ammo, a livestock incinerator which MS researched.

Have you read billandrew's post where he reasons step by step through the timeline of those texts/actions? How would you respond to that post? ILovedateline kindly reposted the link to billandrew's post earlier today in this thread, just a few pages back.

I am sincerely trying to understand your perspective ... What am I missing? Is it a possibility that our personal perceptions of the term "reasonable doubt" are drastically different? Please let me know.

TIA



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[mskrisc]

First Degree Murder
This charge is laid when the prosecution’s theory of its case is grounded in the notion that the accused person had murdered someone with planning and deliberation. The prosecution must prove purpose and intent to kill someone at some level at some point in time; and the plan was successful. If the plan was not successful (i.e. the person was not murdered), the prosecution may charge an accused person with attempted murder. The Prosecution is not required to prove purpose and intent to kill when the alleged murder involved killing a police officer or if the purported murder was commtted in the context of the commission of one of the specified offences under the Criminal Code, namely terrorism, offences committed on behalf of a criminal organization, hostage taking, forcible confinement, kidnapping hijacking, (aggravated) sexual assault (with a weapon), and intimidation.

Upon the entry of a conviction for first degree murder, one is automatically sentenced to a life sentence with no option for parole for 25 years.

http://defence-law.com/homicide/ Excerpt above taken from this website. I think that DM and MS are both first degree murder and will be gone gone soon when I read the above paragraph. Guilty as hell. The jury I predict will be out deciding for about 4 hours if that and come back with a united guilty as hell of first degree murder for both. 25 years with no eligability. IMO

Let's hope you're right!


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[canadiangirl]

BBM

Except that isn't true with MS.


May 13 - Smich to Millard - I'm *advertiser censored***** hungry for a mission too and I know I've been slacking on that lately
May 30 - Smich to Millard - I need a mission or whatever/I gotta get out of this place bro....
May 30 - Smich to Millard - bringing mission stuff just in case
Jun 9 - Smich to Millard - I found some small missions easy s*** on the way. Not important but useful.
Apr 26 - Smich to Millard - Its almost mission time/
May 2 - Smich to Millard - oh wanna come by and run some missions with me while her and her friend pierce each other
May 3 - Smich to Millard - Yo holla back tomorrow when you back from Toronto. There's a bunch. Missions and more.

So to be clear, when it is said MS planned a bunch of missions. Going by this information we can confirm on May 13 2012 MS was slacking looking for any missions. Then on May 30 2012 bringing mission prep just in case. June 9 2012, he found some small missions but they weren't really important apparently.
I'd be curious to know if anything transpired from these. And this is an entire year before TB.

Fast forward to April/May 2013, 3 texts seemingly talking about the same mission which due to the date we can conclude it was the truck theft.

I'm not sure where the mountains of evidence is coming from. What other texts/evidence am I missing for this particular piece? Yes before anyone points it out I realize it's the "totality".

 

[andreww]

I saw 3 texts in 2012 around the same days and 2 in 2013 IIRC, but it's unclear what these other so called missions were. Or if it was MS trying to talk the talk? I know he was on the stand for many days and I don't recall that but I won't ask you to source it either lol

You keep making statement like "Millard being the ringleader" and "organizing ALL missions" , but once again you are simply incorrect. There are several instances that I recall where Smich asks Millard to join him. When someone points out that you are wrong, you just make excuses "maybe Smich was just trying to walk the walk".

Why do you consistently try to make excuses for this guy?


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[andreww]

So to be clear, when it is said MS planned a bunch of missions. Going by this information we can confirm on May 13 2012 MS was slacking looking for any missions. Then on May 30 2012 bringing mission prep just in case. June 9 2012, he found some small missions but they weren't really important apparently.
I'd be curious to know if anything transpired from these. And this is an entire year before TB.

Fast forward to April/May 2013, 3 texts seemingly talking about the same mission which due to the date we can conclude it was the truck theft.

I'm not sure where the mountains of evidence is coming from. What other texts/evidence am I missing for this particular piece? Yes before anyone points it out I realize it's the "totality".

Seriously? How many Millard planned missions have we heard about? Four or five? Obviously there were a lot more, just like there were likely more Smich planned missions. Simply put, these crimes have nothing to do with this crime so we aren't hearing about them.


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[Mscree]

Only ones received from ms on their phones, Or on IMessage

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Actually it does matter very much, because, as we have been told repeatedly it is the totality of the evidence and if this is not proven I really don't feel that there is any more premeditation on MS part then there is with AM, CN or SS. Apparently what sets MS apart from the rest of the gang IS the fact that he WAS with DM on that night

Being at a murder and helping dispose of a body/cleaning up a blood filled car does tend to be a bit more of an issue than not.

 

[Mscree]

See I don't think DM would expose them for the sheer fact, he needed them to half AZZ their testimonies. They tell all, DM finds out through disclosure and he tells all. I think he protected AM in his letters and AM down played his roll.

I see it differently. I believe yes he wanted him to change his testimony, however I don't believe Andrew was involved anymore then was said. I still stand by Dm was a selfish brat and would use anyone to his benefit willingly or not

 

[hellkat2]

Oh but according to MS, Lisho was a drug dealer :laughing:

MS perhaps got too old to be selling drugs to highschool kids and was reassigned to other criminal activities.?

 

[hellkat2]

DM and his gang were into thefts before MS was into the group. They (DM and MS) met through a drug dealing, no contact for two years then reconnected again over drugs. Or did I misunderstand testimony?

And does the criminal network that ISHO was involved in have a name?

 

[Mscree]

So reading the Tory case, McClintic plead guilty but that info was under public ban. Is it possible one or both (MS/DM) have done this and no one knows? Or is this just wishful thinking on my part?

Wishful thinking one or both of these creeps thinks they could walk away