Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[Abitcountry]

If the seats were too cumbersome/large to incinerate in the incinerator, they would have had to burn them in an open fire. I am certain that there are bylaws in effect to prevent open fires in the industrial area at the airport. So they could have planned ahead to kill 2 birds with one stone, incinerating the body at the hangar while taking care of the seats at the farm. MOO

Point well made and I am inclined to agree with you.
The penny dropped for me when I saw the photo of the forensic anthropologist standing inside of the incinerator....she was shoulder deep. With a little effort I think the bulky seats from the truck would have fit into the hatch and easily been dropped inside. The problem is getting them out---I rather doubt than one of the culprits was willing to reach deep inside sometime later to fish the metal frames out and they had to come out. Easier to douse them with gas and torch them out in the field. All those synthetics and gas would go up like a torch and burn fast. Easy peas you---early in the morning ( only the dairy farmer actually notice) and over quickly ( that's why the dairy farmer did not bother to report it).
Open fires are not allowed in the country either unless you secure a burn permit and declare a burn date.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

There is a photo of the anthropology students working under the tents on the scorched areas. One is marked with ribbon along the edge. It looks about 8 feet on one side. JMO

Yes, that is the picture I'm referring to. Our 2003 Ram seats are about 6 feet from seat side to seat side.

 

[billandrew]

If the seats were too cumbersome/large to incinerate in the incinerator, they would have had to burn them in an open fire. I am certain that there are bylaws in effect to prevent open fires in the industrial area at the airport. So they could have planned ahead to kill 2 birds with one stone, incinerating the body at the hangar while taking care of the seats at the farm. MOO

The dairy farmer saw plumes of smoke from DM's farm while milking his cows, so wouldn't that imply the farm burnings took place when there was daylight? The incinerator was running through the night. I do agree that the body was likely incinerated at the hangar and the seats were burned at the farm, but IMO they occurred at much different times.

 

[Abitcountry]

Agree with you totally....just barely daylight and usually very quiet in the country.

 

[Wollander77]

The dairy farmer saw plumes of smoke from DM's farm while milking his cows, so wouldn't that imply the farm burnings took place when there was daylight? The incinerator was running through the night. I do agree that the body was likely incinerated at the hangar and the seats were burned at the farm, but IMO they occurred at much different times.

I took deugirtni's comment to mean that DM and MS planned to burn all incriminating pieces of evidence before late morning the next day, May 7? If the incinerator burned through the night, they might have thought it logical to move the eliminator after it's done its job to the farm (a ten minutes' drive), hide it away in the trees, and finish burning through pieces of clothing or other items stained with blood by 6 am.

At least, that's what I assume happened... But I'm up for other theories, especially since I haven't kept a running track of all the deets of the trial.

 

[matou]

I wonder if the propane tank attached to the incinerator was empty? so burn seats with loose fuel

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Anyone know anything about "controlled burning"? I'm just reading on it now, so I don't know.

Farmers and forestry use this method to contain forest fires or farmers to burn off old crop and weeds before planting new crop.
DM having access to Aviation fuel would be the perfect accelerant and I imagine would be very powerful in smell. Now mix that with not so dry corn husks and wetter ground, this may be possible to contain the fire where they wanted it. When I was looking at some of the images of controlled burning, there were some pretty straight lines and even one with a squared corner.

 

[matou]

Anyone know anything about "controlled burning"? I'm just reading on it now, so I don't know.

Farmers and forestry use this method to contain forest fires or farmers to burn off old crop and weeds before planting new crop.
DM having access to Aviation fuel would be the perfect accelerant and I imagine would be very powerful in smell. Now mix that with not so dry corn husks and wetter ground, this may be possible to contain the fire where they wanted it. When I was looking at some of the images of controlled burning, there were some pretty straight lines and even one with a squared corner.

I'm not sure DM is that intelligent. JMO

 

[ArianeEmory]

Anyone know anything about "controlled burning"? I'm just reading on it now, so I don't know.

Farmers and forestry use this method to contain forest fires or farmers to burn off old crop and weeds before planting new crop.
DM having access to Aviation fuel would be the perfect accelerant and I imagine would be very powerful in smell. Now mix that with not so dry corn husks and wetter ground, this may be possible to contain the fire where they wanted it. When I was looking at some of the images of controlled burning, there were some pretty straight lines and even one with a squared corner.

This just pinged a memory for me. Did we ever find out what was in all those industrial barrels at the barn?

 

[swedie]

Rogers also testified about the detailed grid search of two "burn sites" on the farm. A tent was erected around the two circular sites — which reeked of gasoline — as a team of anthropology students combed the charred sections of corn field looking for evidence.

I suspect Matou is right about the square burn pattern being from tarp. If DM had transferred things contained in a tarp and then opened it up on the ground, stands to reason for the square burnt area. Here are some of the items found within one of the burned areas. Not sure if the reporter made an error stating two "circular" sites, or if the other burnt area appeared to be two circular sites together and then the square area separate. MOO

In addition to three seatbelts — which the jury saw Wednesday — they also found grommets, a metal spring, glass, burned wood, a partially melted plastic bottle and coins.

http://m.therecord.com/news-story/6...ing-human-remains-for-family-s-peace-of-mind-

And if you look at the photo of the green tarp in this article it looks to be approximate in size of the burnt area. It also appears that the tarp has been cut and there are grommets on the tarp. MOO.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ncinerator-on-dellen-millard-s-farm-1.3451819

Added for Princess: this article says "reeked of gasoline." HTH.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Speaking of being too close for comfort, now that I know more memories are alert. My daughter worked near the airport and I recall driving her to work and we were all on alert everyone looking for the black truck. I now recall being behind a truck pulling something on its trailer that was odd and I said, "What the heck is that thing?" At the time I knew nothing of an incinerator. Now I'm wondering if I saw the incinerator being transferred back to the farm. If the dirt biker said it wasn't there Wed the 8th, but did see it the 10th, I wonder if they transferred it in daylight on the 9th. They would have needed the same truck to tow the trailer the same day moving the truck. I'm wondering where the incinerator was then between 5am on the 8th and the 10th when it was first spotted? I was either on Kossuth or Maple Grove that I saw the odd thing which is an alternate route to the 401.

In the meantime between hangar and farmland the eliminator was hidden in the barn, I think. DM and CN then moved the eliminator from the barn to the open field.

 

[billandrew]

I took deugirtni's comment to mean that DM and MS planned to burn all incriminating pieces of evidence before late morning the next day, May 7? If the incinerator burned through the night, they might have thought it logical to move the eliminator after it's done its job to the farm (a ten minutes' drive), hide it away in the trees, and finish burning through pieces of clothing or other items stained with blood by 6 am.

At least, that's what I assume happened... But I'm up for other theories, especially since I haven't kept a running track of all the deets of the trial.

That's plausible. AFAIK the cell phone activity does not support them returning to the farm on Tues morning, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.


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[swedie]

Point well made and I am inclined to agree with you.
The penny dropped for me when I saw the photo of the forensic anthropologist standing inside of the incinerator....she was shoulder deep. With a little effort I think the bulky seats from the truck would have fit into the hatch and easily been dropped inside. The problem is getting them out---I rather doubt than one of the culprits was willing to reach deep inside sometime later to fish the metal frames out and they had to come out. Easier to douse them with gas and torch them out in the field. All those synthetics and gas would go up like a torch and burn fast. Easy peas you---early in the morning ( only the dairy farmer actually notice) and over quickly ( that's why the dairy farmer did not bother to report it).
Open fires are not allowed in the country either unless you secure a burn permit and declare a burn date.

I believe Dr. Rogers in kneeling inside the incinerator. MOO.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Swedie......Aviation fuel is a type of gasoline.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_fuel

 

[Abitcountry]

Yes, that is the picture I'm referring to. Our 2003 Ram seats are about 6 feet from seat side to seat side.

Have looked at that picture and thought those seats were uncharacteristic ally neat and tidy given that they are in. Vehicle owned by DM. When you mentioned they are all welded together, I checked and they are indeed. So that changes a lot for me....of course they would have to be burnt in a open fire and likely the one that sent up black and grey plumes of smoke.
The size of one of the sites would easily be that welded row of seats.
The burn site is at least as wide as 3 rows of corn and parts of another on both outside edges....8 feet wide maybe.
Thanks for pointing out the fact the seats are a single unit !!!

 

[swedie]

 

[Wollander77]

That's plausible. AFAIK the cell phone activity does not support them returning to the farm on Tues morning, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I just checked the phone records on May 7, and you're right, it seemed that at 5:55 am, DM's phone was still pinging off at the airport. Either MS drove back to the farm to burn the evidence while DM alerted his employees to stay away from work, or they waited until the next day to finish the job (going off of the farmer's testimony). On May 8, at 5:42 am DM's phone pinged in Etobicoke, but by 7:30 am, it seemed he was back at the airport. One thing's for sure, they were busy little bees up to no good that week.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

View attachment 89454View attachment 89455

The platic tarp would have shriveled up an melted quite quickly. I IMO do not believe a tarp could have made that spot (time will tell as evidence comes out). It would have to be a very slow burning tarp IMO. I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right as anything seems to be possible.

 

[swedie]

Swedie......Aviation fuel is a type of gasoline.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_fuel

They smell different. Aviation fuel smells more like kerosene IMO.

 

[Abitcountry]

The platic tarp would have shriveled up an melted quite quickly. I IMO do not believe a tarp could have made that spot (time will tell as evidence comes out). It would have to be a very slow burning tarp IMO. I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right as anything seems to be possible.

Change green poly for rusty brown canvas and there you have it