Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[billandrew]

What were MS's prior convictions again? All I can ever remember was the silly graffiti one, but I can't even remember how he spelled satan, I have the hardest time when people start putting numbers in their words.

"say10"

Info about his prior convictions: http://globalnews.ca/news/585372/who-is-mark-smich/

"He was convicted of drug possession in 2005 and 2006, for failing to comply twice in 2006 and impaired driving in 2009. He is also facing a charge of mischief for allegedly spray-painting a highway overpass."

 

[Ontario Mom]

Have any of you guys been to the actual trial itself so far? I went Friday and I must say it's an awesome experience. I'm extremely bummed out that I can't go everyday like that hipster reporter Adam Carter (and get paid for it and get a great seat) However I will take a day off again next Monday and attend. Very excited for that.

I thought I would but so far I have not. I'm honestly not sure I could stomach seeing either MS or DM in person, and I'm 100% sure I'd start crying my eyes out to see SB and Tim's parents. I think staying home and following here & via twitter is better for me, personally.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

Why would he have no choice? Regardless of whether it was planned or not, it happened. Either one of them could have come forward at any time BEFORE LE caught up with them, and told the truth about what really happened. Neither did. To this DAY, neither are coming clean with what happened. So why would anyone assume one or the other had no choice?

Well for one they are both charged with first degree murder of LB thus if one goes down for TB both go down for LB.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

I thought I would but so far I have not. I'm honestly not sure I could stomach seeing either MS or DM in person, and I'm 100% sure I'd start crying my eyes out to see SB and Tim's parents. I think staying home and following here & via twitter is better for me, personally.

SB and family seemed in great spirits. SB was joking and smiling with her friend at numerous times. MS was just emotionless. Didn't talk to anyone not even his counsel. DM looked grim when walking in but was chatting smiling and joking with Pillay throughout. BTW MS is SHORT lol DM is tall and skinny like a toothpick.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I just wanted to point something out. Do you remember when the police officer was being cross examined by TD, and he saying that it would have been impossible for the officer to have entered the trailer via the side door, and gone into the truck.. and that instead, he had to have gone in the side door and been at the box part of the truck?

I noticed that each side of the trailer has the doors at very different locations.. the driver's side, side door, definitely goes into the box portion, while the passenger side looks much more forward, so that it would open up to the passenger door. Did the officer say which side of the truck was entered?

Passenger side trailer door is showing on this photo

Driver's side showing in this photo below

Interior photo showing where the driver's side box is located in relation to the side door of the trailer:

Thanks for this insightful post, that is a good catch. I wish we could see more clearly where the man door on the passenger side opens up to in relation to the truck. It looks to me like it would be about at the hinge and just in front of the passenger door, but I could be wrong. Would climbing through that door force the person to go up over the hood to enter the trailer? I'm sure they wouldn't have climbed through the broken window.

I must be confused, was the testimony that the officer climbed in through either of those side man door to access the truck interior? Because that would seem I possible to me after looking at how tight of a squeeze it was in these photos. I would have to assume that he climbed through the back window after accessing the trailer from the rear doors, (but now that I am looking at this photo, I cannot see the back window of the truck, is it safe to assume that is a trick of the lighting?)

The tweets were a little skimpy on this, but based on the cross by the defense, I got the impression that the police report said he went in the side door on the driver side of the trailer. I can't imagine he would have went through the broken window so climbing around the hood would be the only option if he entered on the passenger side. That looks like a very small space to be able to do that in. Also, the back window of the truck does not appear to be one that opens so that would remove that option too IMO.

Feb 11 2016 2:59 PM Adam Carter
To get the truck out of the trailer (where it was jammed in really tight), a local tow truck driver came with a flat bed. "He winched it back. It did get stuck," she says, because the front wheels were turned slightly inside the trailer. A key had to be cut at a local dealer for the truck, and then an officer had to go in through the side door of the trailer and then the truck window to unlock the steering wheel.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont
Got key cut so could put in ignition and straighten wheels. Did not start truck because that would change dash readings.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
When they went to remove the truck from the trailer (onto a tow truck flat bed to keep it level) the wheels got stuck. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
They had to get a key cut to stick in ignition to turn wheels. Didn't turn it on, so as not to disturb or change anything. #Bosma

Feb 16 2016 12:16 PM
Dungey now asking about when the officers had to get a key made and go through the side door of the trailer to put the new key inside the ignition because the wheels were locked.
Adam Carter

Feb 16 2016 12:21 PM
Dungey now asking about the police statement that they went in through one side door to get to the cab and put the key in the ignition. "Contrary to the evidence, if he went in to that door, he would be in the back of the trailer." Dungey says. "If you open that door, you couldn't possibly reach the cab."
Adam Carter

Feb 16 2016 12:23 PM
This is the door on the left side of the trailer from the back. Dungey asking why no photos were taken of the officer actually going through the side door to unlock the truck and put the key in the ignition. "We don't take action photos of what we're doing," McLellan says. "It would have been great assistance here, would it not?" Dungey says. "I suppose it would," she responds.
Adam Carter

Feb 16 2016 12:25 PM
The point Dungey is making is that he doesn't think the officer who went into the trailer through a side door would be able to get to the cab at all. "It only hits the back of the truck, not the cab," he says. McLellan says she believes it's closer to the back of the cab.
Adam Carter

Feb 16 2016 12:26 PM
"This is one of these cases where if we had a video or you'd taken a photo of when this is going on, this wouldn't be an issue." Dungey says.
Adam Carter

Feb 16 2016 12:27 PM
Dungey says getting into the cab in the way the police had described would be "almost impossible."
Adam Carter

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2HcLKBpswT4aEswVnRPbTVmbjQ/view?pref=2&pli=1

 

[Alethea Dice]

I must note that this is considered rumour...

My son knows a guy who just spent 3 months in jail where DM is. He said a laptop is brought to DM's cell twice a week to do trial research. DM doesn't have much opportunity to talk to other inmates, but only ever talks about the trial, never about his past. He commented after one trial day that someone called he and MS *advertiser censored**ers.

Just random stuff, but I was surprised about the laptop use.

This may answer your question about the laptop use.

Millard also noted he is having trouble getting access to the disclosure material he needs for the Babcock case.

“I have an issue at the Hamilton jail with getting access to the disclosure on Laura Babcock material,” Millard said, adding that he is unable to view the CDs and DVDs provided by the prosecution.

The judge replied that it was clearer than his. Then for the record, he stated, “The court orders Dellen Millard full and unfettered access to the CDs and DVDs in the Laura Babcock matter.”

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2015/12/dellen-millard-turns-jailhouse-lawyer.html

 

[Juballee]

Why would he have no choice? Regardless of whether it was planned or not, it happened. Either one of them could have come forward at any time BEFORE LE caught up with them, and told the truth about what really happened. Neither did. To this DAY, neither are coming clean with what happened. So why would anyone assume one or the other had no choice?

It could be that one was not familiar with the specifics of the law previous to attending the test drive. It is not hard for me to see one telling the other that "It's too late now, you are already implicated because you called to set up the appointment, and everyone has seen your face. If you tell anyone, you'll go to jail right along side me. Your only chance now is to help me cover this up completely and make sure we don't get caught."

Someone unfamiliar with with the law would probably find themselves in quite a quandary in that scenario, in my opinion.

All my opinion/speculation only.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Well for one they are both charged with first degree murder of LB thus if one goes down for TB both go down for LB.

To be perfectly honest, everyone has a choice whether or not they're going to go along with a murder & cover up. I don't buy for a moment either of these tools pressured the other into doing anything they didn't want to do. I know some do believe that, and I'm just trying to understand why - what evidence there may be that I'm missing, that allows folks to see it that way.

 

[Abitcountry]

Have any of you guys been to the actual trial itself so far? I went Friday and I must say it's an awesome experience. I'm extremely bummed out that I can't go everyday like that hipster reporter Adam Carter (and get paid for it and get a great seat) However I will take a day off again next Monday and attend. Very excited for that.

I am glad you mentioned having been there.
I live not an impossible distance from Hamilton and was thinking of doing the same. I know you are not allowed to tell u what was discussed and that is perfectly understandable.
But if you can talk about your own experience having been there then
I have a few questions:

--Did you have any reaction when you saw both of the accused sitting there side by side?
--Did you personally observe DM gleaning around, looking for possible acquaintenances in the gallery?....or grinning as he has been reported to have done at times.
--How did you feel about seeing the family in this setting?
--Did you find that the proceedings moved along at a reasonable pace...that is, slow enough for you to follow but not so slow and tedious that it was painful especially during legal arguments with objections flying etc.
--How was the crowd, if there was one given the topic for the day?


Overall I find you enthusiasm is quite infectious.....I am hopeful that you can share with us your personal experience.
Abitcountry

 

[Ontario Mom]

It could be that one was not familiar with the specifics of the law previous to attending the test drive. It is not hard for me to see one telling the other that "It's too late now, you are already implicated because you called to set up the appointment, and everyone has seen your face. If you tell anyone, you'll go to jail right along side me. Your only chance now is to help me cover this up completely and make sure we don't get caught."

Someone unfamiliar with with the law would probably find themselves in quite a quandary in that scenario, in my opinion.

All my opinion/speculation only.

Such a scenario almost makes one of these guys come off as a naive, 8 yr old boy, while the other was an adult, master manipulator. I don't think this is accurate of either of them really. Or, that there was ever any quandary at all. I think they're both equally wicked, and they both equally did exactly what they wanted to do, damn the consequences. Then, came the sloppy cover up that didn't work for either of them.

moo.

 

[paris_paris]

This may answer your question about the laptop use.







http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2015/12/dellen-millard-turns-jailhouse-lawyer.html

Oh, thank you. So it's probably just a DVD player.

 

[Juballee]

Such a scenario almost makes one of these guys come off as a naive, 8 yr old boy, while the other was an adult, master manipulator. I don't think this is accurate of either of them really. Or, that there was ever any quandary at all. I think they're both equally wicked, and they both equally did exactly what they wanted to do, damn the consequences. Then, came the sloppy cover up that didn't work for either of them.

moo.

Maybe some people have a better grasp of the law than other people. I for one did not know anything about the specifics of the law in regards to the particulars of this case without reading hundreds of pages here, and I'm much older than 8. And even with all the experience here, there has still been lively debates about whether or not it is first degree murder if the truck was stopped compared to if the truck was in motion and other finer points of the law. What would have been really useful would have been legal advice, but I doubt either had the luxury of calling a lawyer at that time. It would be interesting to see if either consulted a lawyer after TB's death but prior to their arrest.

The sloppy cover up keeps suggesting that this crime was not planned in advance, again, least not by DM in my opinion. All his involvement so far as I have seen in court has been either centered on actual test drives, or in covering up the crime after the fact. Even just a tiny bit of advance preparations on his part would have eliminated nearly every single clue that Points to his involvement, from covering his tattoos with a long sleeve shirt to shutting off the cameras at the hanger to bringing the incinerator their ahead of time.

All my opinion only.

 

[swedie]

IMHO, DM had absolutely no agricultural or aviation related need for an incinerator designed for industrial poultry operations. Perhaps the defence plans on showing the Jury how him, SS and AJ produced bags and bags of garbage in their trailer or e-bike making endeavours and he somehow needed an incinerator with a 500 lb capacity to dispose of it. But now that I think about it, he could have probably filled it from the contents of his Yukon! He purchased it in June, 2012. Millardair already had their occupancy permit for the hangar; construction was complete. The MRO was in the tooling phase. WM had a team looking after things-DM was the figure head CEO who didn't seem to have a schedule. And besides, if it was legit, why the heck didn't DM keep it in the hangar? mmmm

Excellent points MsSherlock. It's not like he didn't have the room for incinerator at the hangar if its purpose was to take care of wastes from the hangar. Just too coincidental it was purchase just before LB went missing. And then coincidentally TB's remains were found inside. The incinerator at the hangar makes about as much sense as the wood chipper being there. Was he going to feed wastes from the hangar through the chipper like one would destroy documents through a paper shredder?!

I wondered what was under the huge cover. Anyone care to guess? ABro stated there was a lot of garbage and furniture piled up in MA's parking lot. Seems Pillay was trying to establish a need for the incinerator at the hangar by pointing out MA didn't have a dumpster IMO. Then he tries to establish, because security checks are regularly done around the hangar, DM knew better than to do anything illegally and/or nefarious around the hangar. Wouldn't it have made more sense, cost wise for DM to rent or buy a dumpster and have it periodically emptied, instead of purchasing a $15,000 incinerator?!

Pillay establishes that airport security checks out the hangar area regularly. Then he asks: “There were no garbage dumpsters at the hangar, right?”

“Good question. I can’t remember. I know there was a lot of garbage piled up in the parking area — furniture.”

“You would frequently see Mr. Millard take garbage away?”

“Shane would give bags to Dell and Dell would take them away.”

And the trailer for the incinerator...custom built they say?! Modifications made to a stolen trailer? Perhaps SS will be able to clarify this when he eventually takes the stand. Apparently there was a collection of trailers at the hangar. In this photo you can see a couple being towed away. Could the enclosed one be that which was stolen from MM's parking lot, with his chopped HD inside? The stolen HD and its trailer...will we hear about that? Apparently MM was able to retrieve video and hand it over to LE. SS is going to have a lot to clear up when he finally gives testimony. Should be very interesting. ALL MOO.
ALL MOO.

 

[aawaterloo]

No convictions, he was carded http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/carding_by_toronto_police_drops_sharply.html

Could it also be that LE had questioned DM over the death of WM and the disappearance of LB.
JMO

 

[billandrew]

If it ends up being true that DM and MS killed LB together, and then almost a year later they killed TB together, then I would conclude that they were both willing participants in the murders. I don't see one being able to coerce the other into committing murder twice. IMO these guys were partners and they were getting some sick pleasure out of committing crimes together. Maybe drugs were a factor, I don't know.

 

[Kamille]

Oh, thank you. So it's probably just a DVD player.

Or a laptop without internet.

MOO

 

[swedie]

I don't think a photo of one incinerator in google maps shows "stock" in the yard. It may have either been theirs or one that was ordered by another customer and had just been shipped there. But I believe everything we've been led to believe states that MillardAir received the incinerator in July 2012? Ordered in June, received in July.

And for a purchase that large, coming across the border, the Canadian distributor would be required to make sure all tariffs and taxes were paid and the proper paperwork was taken care of. By using a Canadian distributor, DM did not have to deal with all of these regulations before bringing the incinerator into the country. So the company in Georgia would have either shipped the incinerator across border to Manitoba and then Tri Star would have arranged to have it shipped to MillardAir, or they may have arranged for a direct shipment to MillardAir once all the paperwork was completed. And in that case, the incinerator could have been shipped directly to the end user from the manufacturer, or perhaps, to make it quicker, the end user, with paperwork in hand, could pick up the product and present the paperwork at the border?

MOO

So BP was wrong when he said it was delivered to the farm?

Bill Penner of Tri-Star Dairy in Grunthal, Man. said he did not personally meet with Millard and would not reveal details of the actual purchase or how it was delivered to his farm.

http://www.nugget.ca/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying

 

[Tealgrove]

Have any of you guys been to the actual trial itself so far? I went Friday and I must say it's an awesome experience. I'm extremely bummed out that I can't go everyday like that hipster reporter Adam Carter (and get paid for it and get a great seat) However I will take a day off again next Monday and attend. Very excited for that.

I'll be there one day this week I think. Not tomorrow, more likely Thursday.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Maybe some people have a better grasp of the law than other people. I for one did not know anything about the specifics of the law in regards to the particulars of this case without reading hundreds of pages here, and I'm much older than 8. And even with all the experience here, there has still been lively debates about whether or not it is first degree murder if the truck was stopped compared to if the truck was in motion and other finer points of the law. What would have been really useful would have been legal advice, but I doubt either had the luxury of calling a lawyer at that time. It would be interesting to see if either consulted a lawyer after TB's death but prior to their arrest.

The sloppy cover up keeps suggesting that this crime was not planned in advance, again, least not by DM in my opinion. All his involvement so far as I have seen in court has been either centered on actual test drives, or in covering up the crime after the fact. Even just a tiny bit of advance preparations on his part would have eliminated nearly every single clue that Points to his involvement, from covering his tattoos with a long sleeve shirt to shutting off the cameras at the hanger to bringing the incinerator their ahead of time.

All my opinion only.

But premeditation can mean a thought that flickered through DM's mind minutes before, that he decided to act upon...premeditation doesn't necessarily mean months of planning. (Though it seems that DM did put months of planning into this, having bought the burner phone months before...)

 

[CJPRINCESS]

So BP was wrong when he said it was delivered to the farm?

Bill Penner of Tri-Star Dairy in Grunthal, Man. said he did not personally meet with Millard and would not reveal details of the actual purchase or how it was delivered to his farm.

http://www.nugget.ca/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying

Yes, according to new trial material. See we business people do not always Google te address we are sending our products too. We get paid, we ship the item. BP was also told the incinerator was going to be used for livestock. Which it was not! LE also probably told him where the incinerator was found (on farm) while telling him about the murder and what the unit was used for. Could be just sheer speculation on BP's part.