Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[swedie]

Tim Bosma and his baby daughter
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family


Tim and Sharlene Bosma's wedding pic displayed at the memorial for Tim
from: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6258681-clairmont-sharlene-bosma-brings-loving-laughter-to-court/

Every time I see this picture of Tim and his new, baby girl, I think how fragile life really is. She is a cookie cutter image of her daddy that's for sure. A little "mini me". I hope she has her daddy's personality through and through, as that would be such a precious gift to Sharlene, Mary and Hank. It's terribly upsetting and heartbreaking to know one day Sharlene will be faced with telling her what happened to her loving, fun and wonderful daddy. MOO.

 

[amis_]

I don't think there is any way to match ashes. I think the totality of the evidence leads to the obvious conclusion that those remains are Tim's.

And I was just saying that the other day. I live literally steps from where Millard grew up, went to school and was arrested. Very unsettling to know that such evil was so close. An in an upscale neighbourhood no less!

Same here I am very close by as well. Its very unsettling.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Juballee]

Perhaps if DM brought a truck with the VIN removed into the body shop, they would not accept it since that would be a clear indication it was stolen. JMO. He could have removed the VIN later, after cancelling the appointment, but by that time he was probably so frantic and feeling the heat of LE coming down on him that it just didn't happen. MOO.

If if he was concerned with the painter'sossible concerns over the VIN, why not switch it out with the ones from the red dodge, as it is allegdged he planned on doing?

What day and time did he cancel the appointment to paint it, again? Was that after he heard from SS that AJ had called CS?

 

[ADAWG]

I could never imagine how hard it will be for SB to tell their daughter what happened. I still can't imagine hard it must be to tell that little girl when she asks where her daddy is. The family times without your spouse and seeing that little girl grow up without him is just awful.

The best years and best times of his life were taken in a senseless act. These are the years a family cherishes and remembers for the rest of their life and SB had those replaced with nothing but sadness.

 

[Juballee]

I am sorry in advance if this was addressed already, but I am JUST catching up.
I know that no evidence was submitted about DNA, but with Dr. Rogers stating at the end of her testimony that she vacuumed the rest of the remains to give to the family, getting choked up about it, Mr. Hank Bosma hugging her in the hallway, there must be evidence of DNA of what she found. If I were on the jury panel, this scene would have definitely helped with my thoughts of whose remains were found. :moo:

BBM. I hope that's not the case, because that would be good grounds for a mistrial.

Hopefully there is DNA and evidence to base that on, and not just emotional scenes being witnessed outside of the courtroom.

 

[amis_]

BBM. I hope that's not the case, because that would be good grounds for a mistrial.

Hopefully there is DNA and evidence to base that on, and not just emotional scenes being witnessed outside of the courtroom.

The jury did not see this anyway. They saw Dr Rogers get emotional on the stand for a brief second but not the interaction with Tims father.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[billandrew]

If if he was concerned with the painter'sossible concerns over the VIN, why not switch it out with the ones from the red dodge, as it is allegdged he planned on doing?

My best guess is lack of time.

What day and time did he cancel the appointment to paint it, again? Was that after he heard from SS that AJ had called CS?

The body shop owner was unclear which day DM initially phoned him. He said "It may have been Tuesday or Wednesday." So the cancellation was likely either Wed or Thurs.

 

[swedie]

I don't think we've had DNA or dental experts yet. They've referred, in their opening statement, to the blood in the truck and the blood on the incinerator hatch as being TB's. They didn't use weasel phrases like 'consistent with being that of TB's'. So I assume they intend to provide their proof.

Edit: Not sure we will get a 100% positive ID on the cremains. I don't think they made that claim.

The dental expert is to testify new week regarding the one tooth found in the incinerator. I would hope somehow forensics were able to come to reasonable conclusion the bones being that of Tim. Again, I cannot see them turning over a small box to SB if they weren't fairly certain those were Tim's ashes, bones and tooth found in the incinerator. There are also the 41 fragments which we haven't heard anything about. I suspect we may hear more about them through another expert. MOO.

 

[swedie]

I am sorry in advance if this was addressed already, but I am JUST catching up.
I know that no evidence was submitted about DNA, but with Dr. Rogers stating at the end of her testimony that she vacuumed the rest of the remains to give to the family, getting choked up about it, Mr. Hank Bosma hugging her in the hallway, there must be evidence of DNA of what she found. If I were on the jury panel, this scene would have definitely helped with my thoughts of whose remains were found. :moo:

The jurors wouldn't have seen Hank hug Dr. Rogers and neither would DM or MS have seen that very personal exchange, as it was done in the hallway outside the courtroom after her testimony. I doubt it would have had any affect on DM anyhow. MOO.

 

[Juballee]

If I remember correctly, I don't think he prepared any of the interior of the vehicle for painting, and in fact DM told the paintshop that he only wanted the exterior painted. I am not sure on this, but if a vehicle is missing its VIN, I would think it would be a huge red flag. He couldn't exactly replace it with his *own* VIN, since the bodyshop likely already had a record of DM's VIN since they had previously done work for him, which would again be a red flag. TB's VIN, AFAIK, was never published, so there was nothing to check it against, in the event the bodyshop wanted to do so.

RSBM

Why would the paint shop have the VIN of the red Dodge, was it previously painted? Do they take the VIN of every car they paint? If that is standard practice, then I imagine that LE had informed auto painters to be on the lookout for a truck like that or that particular VIN. Does anyone know if this is standard procedure?

 

[Hez]

The dental expert is to testify new week regarding the one tooth found in the incinerator. I would hope somehow forensics were able to come to reasonable conclusion the bones being that of Tim. Again, I cannot see them turning over a small box to SB if they weren't fairly certain those were Tim's ashes, bones and tooth found in the incinerator. There are also the 41 fragments which we haven't heard anything about. I suspect we may hear more about them through another expert. MOO.

BBM - If they weren't able to use DNA, perhaps they used his dental records instead. However, would a comparison of his dental records with only one tooth be enough to make the identification?

 

[dar107]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/RE39442.pdf

I'm sure this link is somewhere in previous threads, it looks like the incinerator drawings well still in the patent stage. A few things of note...it seems it was designed to be more efficient and more rapid combustion then prior models, along with more reduction of offensive odors. Just thinking of the time frame between the hanger, incineration and moving it back to the farm. Also talks about the bottom door for easy cleaning, I think whoever cleaned it out after used that, no way either accused got in there to really clean it out. I was reading another link here from one of you about the cremation process in general...and it basically said there is always some left over cremains if only a minuscule amount, that would be mixed in with the next person when someone is cremated. If this was used for LB, unless someone got right in there and cleaned it as well as Dr. Rogers, there would have to be some, if only minuscule cremains of LB still there, would there not?

 

[SnooperDuper]

RSBM

Why would the paint shop have the VIN of the red Dodge, was it previously painted? Do they take the VIN of every car they paint? If that is standard practice, then I imagine that LE had informed auto painters to be on the lookout for a truck like that or that particular VIN. Does anyone know if this is standard procedure?

The truck was the hottest truck in Canada at that time, on the news every day. You don't think someone who works at a body shop who has to be on the lookout for hot vehicles to protect themselves wouldn't be curious?

 

[Claroon]

I know I saw a tweet early in the trial that I am desperately trying to find so I can link..(I think it was first fingerprint testimony---Feske) that said they sent that fingerprint in to compare to unsolved cases on file. But I myself would assume they would do that anyway. Would just make sense...


Too bad there is not an easy way to search through all these tweets.

I believe it was in reference to the bullet casing they were going to see if it matched unsolved cases.

 

[Gibson67]

So the truck was moved on Thursday night, after SS found out about AJ's call to Crimestoppers and "blew up" on him. A possible correlation there? Imagine if the truck had still been at the hangar when the police came by the next day.

I dont think AJ went to police until Friday..he never called back crimestoppers and gave them information.

On May 8, a day after Millard told all employees to not show up for work due to “airport politics” — Jennings said he came across the truck in the hangar in Waterloo, Ont.

Jennings said the truck’s interior was stripped, except for the rear seat, and it sat on a green tarp with paint cans nearby. There was no license plate.

“My exact words to myself were: ‘Oh my god, could that be the truck?“’

But he kept to himself that day continuing work on a trailer for Millard.

“I kept looking at that truck and thinking of that poor man and hoping that Dell hasn’t gotten himself into something — I was also concerned for Dell,” Jennings said, referring to Millard.

He went home and spoke to his wife. He said he was confused and unsure what to do.

The next morning, on May 9, he went back to work at the hangar and was alone, he said, so he examined the truck. He photographed the vehicle identification number, snapped a picture of the truck and then called Crimestoppers.

He said he asked Crimestoppers if it was Bosma’s truck. The operator, he said, told him to call back in 45 minutes.

“Yes, it is the truck,” Jennings recalled the operator saying. “Please tell us where it is.”

He didn’t.

“I went in shock, walked outside and went inside my pickup truck and vomited,” he said.

He phoned his wife. Panic set in. So he calmed himself, returned to work and made it through the day.

When he returned to work the next day, Jennings said he noticed the black pickup truck was gone. Sometime later that day, he called police and told them what he knew.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rt-hangar-testifies-at-trial/article28553691/

 

[andreww]

Well no, they checked the phones that were pinging towers in the area and tracked DM's, MS's and the Bate phone travelling together. I read of a recent jewellery store robbery that they solved in a similar manner, by getting cell tower dumps of all activity in the area and tracking phones that were communicating and travelling together at the time of the robbery. They would have had to ditch all their cells and call from a pay phone out of their area to set up the appointment to avoid being traced in this way.

They were only able to track the three phones because Millard had been identified by the bate phone. The wouldn't have been able to identity him because of similar tower usage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tealgrove]

Perhaps DNA can be extracted from some of the larger pieces of bone? Dr. Rogers discussed, albeit small but not to the ash state, some larger pieces which we did not see in the pictures. LE saw bones in the Eliminator upon opening it up and looking in so perhaps the larger pieces would still be able to offer up DNA. Just a hopeful thought.

 

[andreww]

Even then... when AJ contacted CS regarding the truck, he did not identify who or where, although I believe he did say the general location was in Waterloo (IIRC). If police had not by then already been onto DM due to the tattoo, would they have ever been able to put 2 and 2 together to show up at the hangar? I believe it was only because they took AJ's little info - 'Waterloo' (or Kitchener, or whatever he said) - and matched it with a name that had already come to light in the investigation, that they were able to zoom into determining what properties DM was associated with. I truly believe this case would be nothing without Igor's fine observation of a simple tattoo.. whether or not his memory was exact, it was enough to move the case forward in a huge way.

Exactly. But whose to say whether AJ would have ever spoken up?

Regardless, I find it fascinating that Millard thought he could leave that truck in the open like that and not have anyone notice it. Those days following TBs disappearance saw nonstop reports about it in the media, and Millard is seriously thinking of sending it to a paint shop. I think their crew was simply tuned out to the news and they simply had no clue as to the media attention this story was getting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[palisadesk]

Same here I am very close by as well. Its very unsettling.

Yes, I'll bet a number of us have had close connections to the places involved. I got a mild shock when that neighbour on Book Road, Bullman I think the name was, was on the stand and talked about going out walking his dog and seeing the two vehicles pull out from his father's property. He explained that the entrance wasn't used much but that people would pull over in it and use their cell phones.

Yikes! I've done exactly that, in that very place, and more than once. It's perfect because you can (or could) get entirely off the road without blocking anybody's driveway, and it gave you room to turn around (3-point turn) and go back to Trinity Road with no problem.

I don't think I'll ever stop there again though. Just around the haystacks was the likely murder site. I'll take my chances on the shoulder of the road.

 

[Claroon]

Speaking of being too close for comfort, now that I know more memories are alert. My daughter worked near the airport and I recall driving her to work and we were all on alert everyone looking for the black truck. I now recall being behind a truck pulling something on its trailer that was odd and I said, "What the heck is that thing?" At the time I knew nothing of an incinerator. Now I'm wondering if I saw the incinerator being transferred back to the farm. If the dirt biker said it wasn't there Wed the 8th, but did see it the 10th, I wonder if they transferred it in daylight on the 9th. They would have needed the same truck to tow the trailer the same day moving the truck. I'm wondering where the incinerator was then between 5am on the 8th and the 10th when it was first spotted? I was either on Kossuth or Maple Grove that I saw the odd thing which is an alternate route to the 401.