Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[ADAWG]

Yes I agree way to close for comfort. We regularly ride our bikes past the Bosma house in the summer. The Walmart and Canadian tire plaza we are in weekly. I meet friends at the Brassie for a beer fairly frequently. It's crazy how close to home this really is. I also remember how much our community came together and there wasn't a pole or mailbox without a poster. After they announced finding his remains how fast everyone took the posters down so there wasn't that reminder of Tim at every corner and window front in town


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[musicaljoke]

Yes I agree way to close for comfort. We regularly ride our bikes past the Bosma house in the summer. The Walmart and Canadian tire plaza we are in weekly. I meet friends at the Brassie for a beer fairly frequently. It's crazy how close to home this really is. I also remember how much our community came together and there wasn't a pole or mailbox without a poster. After they announced finding his remains how fast everyone took the posters down so there wasn't that reminder of Tim at every corner and window front in town


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This trial challenges our faith in humanity, but your message is a timely reminder of how good and kind are the vast majority of people.

 

[palisadesk]

Perhaps DNA can be extracted from some of the larger pieces of bone? . Just a hopeful thought.

Someone asked on the closed thread if DNA can be extracted from very old bones in poor condition, say from 100 years ago, and yield data on sex, age and the like. That and your query made me think of a case where yes, this did happen.

It's moving story. In the cemetery in Halifax where Titanic victims are buried, there's a grave with a large monument to the Unknown Child. This beautiful boy, between 12 and 24 months of age, approximately, was the first body found by the crew of the salvage ship that went out to retrieve the dead. Although the baby was photographed, and his clothes and shoes kept for identification, besides the likelihood of his being a third-class passenger, nothing was known for sure. In the hopes of finding DNA, the grave was exhumed but only two tiny arm bones and some even tinier baby teeth still remained after 100 years in the soggy soil.

There are twists and turns to the story, but in the end, scientists from Lakehead University were successful Here's a bit of what the Encyclopedia Titanica had to say about the child:

He boarded the Titanic with his parents, Frederick,and Augusta and siblings Lillian, 16; Charles, 14; William, 11; Jessie, 10; and Harold, 9.The entire family was lost in the sinking.
One of the first bodies recovered by the cable ship Mackay-Bennett was of that of a small fair haired boy. The sailors involved in the expedition were so moved that when no relative came forward to claim the child, they personally escorted the child's coffin to Fairview Lawn Cemetery in Halifax and paid for a large monument in memory of the "unknown child". (His was the only burial service that day - 4 May 1912).

The sailors from the recovery ship, when no one came to claim the child's body, called him "Our Babe" and paid for a nice coffin, flowers, and a funeral for the boy, too.

Here's the story of the DNA process by which they identified this baby after nearly 100 years:

http://www.livescience.com/13859-titanic-unknown-child-identification-sidney-goodwin.html

For those with more interest in DNA, here's a paper that explains in more detail (with illustrations) but quite comprehensible to the lay person:

http://www.nyu.edu/projects/mediamosaic/thetitanic/pdf/nicholas-lori.pdf

If DNA can be identified under such challenging conditions, I'm optimistic there will be DNA evidence in this case.

 

[Factoria]

The jurors wouldn't have seen Hank hug Dr. Rogers and neither would DM or MS have seen that very personal exchange, as it was done in the hallway outside the courtroom after her testimony. I doubt it would have had any affect on DM anyhow. MOO.

I gathered, from tweets posted on a previous thread, that reporters situated within the courtroom were able to witness the exchange through the glass doors leading out into the hallway. Provided I have not misunderstood the seating arrangements within the room, I don't see why the jury wouldn't have had the same opportunity.

I'm not sure how to quote from a previous thread, but here's a link to the page... post #126: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?300950-Bosma-Murder-Trial-02-18-16-Day-11/page9

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 23s23 seconds ago Hamilton, Ontario
Hank Bosma follows Dr. Rogers out of the courtroom. Through the glass door, we see him embrace her in a hug #Bosma

 

[amis_]

I gathered, from tweets posted on a previous thread, that reporters situated within the courtroom were able to witness the exchange through the glass doors leading out into the hallway. Provided I have not misunderstood the seating arrangements within the room, I don't see why the jury wouldn't have had the same opportunity.

I'm not sure how to quote from a previous thread, but here's a link to the page... post #126: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?300950-Bosma-Murder-Trial-02-18-16-Day-11/page9

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 23s23 seconds ago Hamilton, Ontario
Hank Bosma follows Dr. Rogers out of the courtroom. Through the glass door, we see him embrace her in a hug #Bosma

The seats where the media sits are directly beside the door going in/out of the courtroom. The jury is on the other side of the room. If I remember correctly it is a small pane of glass, not the whole door being glass. In my opinion I don't believe the jury would be able to see that. MOO

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[Factoria]

The seats where the media sits are directly beside the door going in/out of the courtroom. The jury is on the other side of the room. If I remember correctly it is a small pane of glass, not the whole door being glass. In my opinion I don't believe the jury would be able to see that. MOO

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Thanks for the clarification, amis_! I haven't attended the courtroom in person (yet), despite the fact that I work just two blocks away!

 

[ABro]

They were only able to track the three phones because Millard had been identified by the bate phone. The wouldn't have been able to identity him because of similar tower usage.

On what basis do you say that? It would be a pretty basic algorithm that you could run in Excel. All you would have to do is track which numbers were present with the Bate phone and and Igor on May 5, and also present in Ancaster May 6 at the time of arrival at the Bosma house. They would have turned up both Smich's and Millard's phones pretty quick.

The only hitch is a legal one, namely the recent court ruling on tower dumps, but that will likely end up at the Supreme court (or a similar case will). Also, this case has some differences from the jewelry heist case in that they already had one known number so it may not even be covered by the recent ruling.

So technically very feasible. Legalities up in the air. It's an interesting legal debate.

 

[HackD]

They were only able to track the three phones because Millard had been identified by the bate phone. The wouldn't have been able to identity him because of similar tower usage.

They allowed their easily identifiable primary phones to cross-talk with the burner phones.. which linked anonymous to known. Entirely defeating the purpose of a burner phone for nefarious purposes.

 

[Ontario Mom]

They allowed their easily identifiable primary phones to cross-talk with the burner phones.. which linked anonymous to known. Entirely defeating the purpose of a burner phone for nefarious purposes.

I wonder if it's dawning on either of them at this point, just how stupid they really were, in all this? I sure hope so...

 

[matou]

The jury had a day off from the Tim Bosma murder trial but lawyers were in court for in camera legal arguments. We can’t tell you about the arguments today because it concerns evidence that hasn’t been heard by the jury yet.

I'm guessing the defense team or teams want stuff thrown out. JMO

http://www.chch.com/112193/

 

[justwannano]

I don't think there is any way to match ashes. I think the totality of the evidence leads to the obvious conclusion that those remains are Tim's.

And I was just saying that the other day. I live literally steps from where Millard grew up, went to school and was arrested. Very unsettling to know that such evil was so close. An in an upscale neighbourhood no less!

Hi there everyone. LONG time lurker on the Bosma case. Feel like I know you all. (and I really appreciate all that you do and share - thank you!).
Just to echo a couple of others (not sure I'm copying quotes properly here) - i too live close to the accused (DM). Hard to believe someone in the neighbourhood could be that evil.
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[kramkat]

The jurors wouldn't have seen Hank hug Dr. Rogers and neither would DM or MS have seen that very personal exchange, as it was done in the hallway outside the courtroom after her testimony. I doubt it would have had any affect on DM anyhow. MOO.

Totally agree that no affect would have been had on DM. I was and still am uncertain as to where the door is in that courtroom. I just know that reporters saw through the glass panel of this embrace. I am actually sort of happy that the jury didn't see this. No matter how you look at it, this must be emotionally draining on the jury as well.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Totally agree that no affect would have been had on DM. I was and still am uncertain as to where the door is in that courtroom. I just know that reporters saw through the glass panel of this embrace. I am actually sort of happy that the jury didn't see this. No matter how you look at it, this must be emotionally draining on the jury as well.

I'm sure it's unbelievably exhausting for the jury. That's why I've tended to speak up for them when people complain about their "short work days".

 

[Prairie_dawg]

Hi all, I have been a long time lurker following this case and a couple of others, sadly intrigued by the sheer horror of how this could have happened to anyone of us or our families.


Did anyone else notice what appeared to be a black glove in the red/orange duffle bag in the photos from the back of the Yukon?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2HcLKBpswT4UDdFTW1nZXA2REE/view?pref=2&pli=1 (slide 28)

It seemed to have white/grey powder on it.

I then saw photos of Dr. Rogers gloved hand inside the incinerator with a similar white/grey powder on them. (slide 26)

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/17/tim-bosma-murder-trial-continues-in-hamilton

Would it be safe to say LE would conduct tests on the powder on the glove from the Yukon?
Given the vastness of the investigation, I was just wondering at what point do they stop testing things as they did with the numerous blood samples in Tim's truck.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/RE39442.pdf

I'm sure this link is somewhere in previous threads, it looks like the incinerator drawings well still in the patent stage. A few things of note...it seems it was designed to be more efficient and more rapid combustion then prior models, along with more reduction of offensive odors. Just thinking of the time frame between the hanger, incineration and moving it back to the farm.

This really makes me wonder what they tested it on prior to using at the airport? (Possibly not the first time it was used I hate to say) They would have had to know it was not going to raise attention sitting at the airport. JMO

 

[Prairie_dawg]

The black box switch seen inside the Yukon I suspect is an active plate obscurance system.

There is more to those plate covers than a simple passive covering lens. I suspect a flip of that switch the entire lens goes black. IMO

Search on Amazon and Google, there are plenty of different models. (see Ghostplate or 12VoltVillains and others)

I wonder if DM was using this to simply evade tolls on the 407 or to avoid being plated during other nefarious activities? JMO

This to me says alot about character, willing to break the law as the plate obscure devise IS illegal in Ontario.

all MOO

 

[Juballee]

The truck was the hottest truck in Canada at that time, on the news every day. You don't think someone who works at a body shop who has to be on the lookout for hot vehicles to protect themselves wouldn't be curious?

That was exactly my point, if they were planning on painting it to match the red Dodge for a switcheroo, why didn't they remove/ grind off the VINs when they were removing the other impediments to painting?

 

[carebearmik]

Hi all, I have been a long time lurker following this case and a couple of others, sadly intrigued by the sheer horror of how this could have happened to anyone of us or our families.


Did anyone else notice what appeared to be a black glove in the red/orange duffle bag in the photos from the back of the Yukon?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2HcLKBpswT4UDdFTW1nZXA2REE/view?pref=2&pli=1 (slide 28)

It seemed to have white/grey powder on it.

I then saw photos of Dr. Rogers gloved hand inside the incinerator with a similar white/grey powder on them. (slide 26)

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/17/tim-bosma-murder-trial-continues-in-hamilton

Would it be safe to say LE would conduct tests on the powder on the glove from the Yukon?
Given the vastness of the investigation, I was just wondering at what point do they stop testing things as they did with the numerous blood samples in Tim's truck.

I noticed the black glove as well when the photo first came out. I had similar thoughts about what it was used for. &#55357;&#56867;

 

[Juballee]

Hi there everyone. LONG time lurker on the Bosma case. Feel like I know you all. (and I really appreciate all that you do and share - thank you!).
Just to echo a couple of others (not sure I'm copying quotes properly here) - i too live close to the accused (DM). Hard to believe someone in the neighbourhood could be that evil.
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Welcome Justwannano! :welcome:

 

[Juballee]

I noticed the black glove as well when the photo first came out. I had similar thoughts about what it was used for. &#55357;&#56867;

It sure wasn't used to hide his prints in the truck. Unless that glove belonged to MS.

I can imagine DM trying to keep evidence that would show MS was the shooter. That could explain why he didn't give the gun to MS, why MS had to go to great efforts to retrieve it, because it was his prints on it, not DM's.