Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[dar107]

I'm guessing the defense team or teams want stuff thrown out. JMO

http://www.chch.com/112193/

Yes and seeing as they are speaking of the incinerator at this point I'd think it has something to do with that . The video or the pole used to clean it out..or both.

 

[Juballee]

The black box switch seen inside the Yukon I suspect is an active plate obscurance system.

There is more to those plate covers than a simple passive covering lens. I suspect a flip of that switch the entire lens goes black. IMO

Search on Amazon and Google, there are plenty of different models. (see Ghostplate or 12VoltVillains and others)

I wonder if DM was using this to simply evade tolls on the 407 or to avoid being plated during other nefarious activities? JMO

This to me says alot about character, willing to break the law as the plate obscure devise IS illegal in Ontario.

all MOO

To me, the idea that DM had a switch that electronically obscured his licence plate at will doesn't mesh with the typical portrayal of him being a bumbling idiot who couldn't even turn his phone off. If only he also had an ejector seat we may have never heard of him!

<modsnip>

Just my opinion only.

 

[qdm]

That was exactly my point, if they were planning on painting it to match the red Dodge for a switcheroo, why didn't they remove/ grind off the VINs when they were removing the other impediments to painting?

The VIN plate is secured to the top of the dash tight against the windshield. To alter it, you would have to either remove the windshield or remove the entire dash. The vin numbers are also located in other areas as well. Most domestic vehicles have them on the inside of the drivers door, as well as stickers attached to major body panels, depending on the model year. Frames may have a partial vin number stamped on them. Sometimes there is a sticker in the glove box with a vin.

I am also surprised that the glove in the duffle bag has not been mentioned yet, just photographed (or did I miss that?). It certainly does appear to have ash on it. The bottom door of the incinerator also appears to have ash on the outside of it in one of the photographs of it while sitting in the wooded area as if it were cleaned out. Im curious if they can get prints/dna from inside of that glove. It appears to be rubberized

 

[MsSherlock]

The VIN plate is secured to the top of the dash tight against the windshield. To alter it, you would have to either remove the windshield or remove the entire dash. The vin numbers are also located in other areas as well. Most domestic vehicles have them on the inside of the drivers door, as well as stickers attached to major body panels, depending on the model year. Frames may have a partial vin number stamped on them. Sometimes there is a sticker in the glove box with a vin.

I am also surprised that the glove in the duffle bag has not been mentioned yet, just photographed (or did I miss that?). It certainly does appear to have ash on it. The bottom door of the incinerator also appears to have ash on the outside of it in one of the photographs of it while sitting in the wooded area as if it were cleaned out. Im curious if they can get prints/dna from inside of that glove. It appears to be rubberized

Nice to see so many new WS's on the forum!! IMO, the Crown is introducing it's evidence in a very planned and deliberate fashion and will tie everything together at some point down the road. My thoughts are that if there is DNA, evidence from the incinerator or anything else, that will be dealt with over the next several weeks.
Since this whole investigation was so complex, there are probably still numerous forensic collection officers and analyst that we will be hearing from over the weeks ahead. Remember, we only finished up Week 3 in what they've indicated could be a 16 week trial. I wouldn't consider anything to be overlooked at this point. MOO

 

[Juballee]

The VIN plate is secured to the top of the dash tight against the windshield. To alter it, you would have to either remove the windshield or remove the entire dash. The vin numbers are also located in other areas as well. Most domestic vehicles have them on the inside of the drivers door, as well as stickers attached to major body panels, depending on the model year. Frames may have a partial vin number stamped on them. Sometimes there is a sticker in the glove box with a vin.

I am also surprised that the glove in the duffle bag has not been mentioned yet, just photographed (or did I miss that?). It certainly does appear to have ash on it. The bottom door of the incinerator also appears to have ash on the outside of it in one of the photographs of it while sitting in the wooded area as if it were cleaned out. Im curious if they can get prints/dna from inside of that glove. It appears to be rubberized

I'm not saying that it would be easy, it has just been a theory that has been bouncing around here for some time, the idea of switching the two trucks or changing/obliterating VINs. I'm not even sure if I believe that it is possible or that it was their intention, I'm just pointing out that it appears to be an inconsistency that they would remove the other decals without at least starting to remove the ones that actually identify the vehicle. If they had, AJ would have had nothing to give the CS, maybe he would have lead LE to the truck to check.

I think it may be possible that the powder on the gloves was ash, GSR or maybe just the powder that is needed in gloves to help them slide on your hands. I bet that the inside and outside of a rubber glove is the perfect place to get fingerprints, though, I bet they hold prints really well.

 

[Juballee]

Nice to see so many new WS's on the forum!! IMO, the Crown is introducing it's evidence in a very planned and deliberate fashion and will tie everything together at some point down the road. My thoughts are that if there is DNA, evidence from the incinerator or anything else, that will be dealt with over the next several weeks.
Since this whole investigation was so complex, there are probably still numerous forensic collection officers and analyst that we will be hearing from over the weeks ahead. Remember, we only finished up Week 3 in what they've indicated could be a 16 week trial. I wouldn't consider anything to be overlooked at this point. MOO

I wish I could understand the crown's pattern for presenting evidence a little better! I sometimes have a hard time keeping things straight when we flip between the witness testimony and the expert testimony.

I'm really glad we have so many people here dedicated to keeping the facts straight from the opinions and personal theories that we've bandied about for the last couple of years. I'm especially thankful for Bessie's recaps.

 

[MsSherlock]

I'm not saying that it would be easy, it has just been a theory that has been bouncing around here for some time, the idea of switching the two trucks or changing/obliterating VINs. I'm not even sure if I believe that it is possible or that it was their intention, I'm just pointing out that it appears to be an inconsistency that they would remove the other decals without at least starting to remove the ones that actually identify the vehicle. If they had, AJ would have had nothing to give the CS, maybe he would have lead LE to the truck to check.

I think it may be possible that the powder on the gloves was ash, GSR or maybe just the powder that is needed in gloves to help them slide on your hands. I bet that the inside and outside of a rubber glove is the perfect place to get fingerprints, though, I bet they hold prints really well.

We don't know what DM's plans were for TB's truck, but we do know the following:

DM stripped down the interior of TB's truck
DM was going to have TB's truck painted red
DM's red 2005 Dodge Ram was running. (caught on video towing the trailer in Kleinburg)
TB's truck had the correct VIN number plate on the dash.
DM's truck was a gas engine
TB's truck was a diesel engine

The following have been speculated on:
VIN switch between the two trucks
Engine swap between the two trucks
DM going to Baja race in May

There are witnesses that may shed some light.
1) friends were told they were going to steel a truck- where they ever told "why" DM & MS were going to steel a truck.
2) SS was DM's personal mechanic- he may know what work DM wanted done on the stolen truck.

Also, IMHO, we didn't know about the "auto paint shop" guy until he took the stand, so there's the possibility that the Crown will have other witnesses that will shed some light into what DM was planning to do with TB's truck. MOO

 

[billandrew]

We don't know what DM's plans were for TB's truck, but we do know the following:

DM stripped down the interior of TB's truck
DM was going to have TB's truck painted red
DM's red 2005 Dodge Ram was running. (caught on video towing the trailer in Kleinburg)
TB's truck had the correct VIN number plate on the dash.
DM's truck was a gas engine
TB's truck was a diesel engine

The following have been speculated on:
VIN switch between the two trucks
Engine swap between the two trucks
DM going to Baja race in May

There are witnesses that may shed some light.
1) friends were told they were going to steel a truck- where they ever told "why" DM & MS were going to steel a truck.
2) SS was DM's personal mechanic- he may know what work DM wanted done on the stolen truck.

Also, IMHO, we didn't know about the "auto paint shop" guy until he took the stand, so there's the possibility that the Crown will have other witnesses that will shed some light into what DM was planning to do with TB's truck. MOO

DM also told Igor he was planning to tow racing vehicles to Calgary. And AJ testified that DM's employees were under pressure to finish building a trailer quickly.

There were off-road races in Alberta in 2013. One that is similar to Baja was called the "Best In The West 4x4 Shootout", which took place over the May 18/19 weekend in 2013. It kinda fits the timeline of needing a truck and trailer quickly around early May. So one could speculate that they planned to go to this particular race or a similar race in Alberta that year.

More about the race: http://www.worr.ca/about/media/2013-past-events/

 

[palisadesk]

I noticed the black glove as well when the photo first came out. I had similar thoughts about what it was used for.

I seem to recall police testimony last week that they found a similar black glove near the barn on the ground when they did their first search of the Roseville Road site at the beginning of May. Perhaps it's the mate of the other? There was also a photo of it, I think in one of the slide montages Susan Clairmont put together for the Spec, but I can't find it now.

The discovery of the glove is mentioned in this article:

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6310632-bosma-trial-hears-details-about-discovery-of-incinerator/

 

[matou]

The Mob Reporter's channel on Youtube belongs to National Post reporter Adrian Humphreys. All the exhibits are in there, I think. I like individual slides myself but not everyone can access those in the google docs from mobile.

Here is the link to the youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA

 

[matou]

Also, people were wondering about the cell phone activity on certain days, the 7th I think? Everything is here: [video=youtube;zyR9hgUntwI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyR9hgUntwI&index=7&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA[/video]

 

[ArianeEmory]

This is probably silly, but I can't help thinking: "uh, nitrile gloves don't have to be black, did DM specifically buy them in black so he'd look more like an evil mastermind?"

 

[Ontario Mom]

This is probably silly, but I can't help thinking: "uh, nitrile gloves don't have to be black, did DM specifically buy them in black so he'd look more like an evil mastermind?"

I did a rather intense google research on them (just because I'm weird that way) and it seems the most common color is black. Especially the ones used in auto/mechanic/machinery shops. Or, illegal chop shops run out of hangars.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The Mob Reporter's channel on Youtube belongs to National Post reporter Adrian Humphreys. All the exhibits are in there, I think. I like individual slides myself but not everyone can access those in the google docs from mobile.

Here is the link to the youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA

The background music they've chosen for these slideshow videos makes me cry. I have to turn the volume down.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I did a rather intense google research on them (just because I'm weird that way) and it seems the most common color is black. Especially the ones used in auto/mechanic/machinery shops. Or, illegal chop shops run out of hangars.

Fair enough. I've only seen them in white-ish, but I work in a big biotech town with lots of universities and labs. That one in the duffel bag looked super bizarre to me as a consequence.

 

[redwing7225]

glove found in bag is different than the gloves found on DM during arrest

 

[amis_]

The background music they've chosen for these slideshow videos makes me cry. I have to turn the volume down.

Me too! :hug:

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Kamille]

We don't know what DM's plans were for TB's truck, but we do know the following:

DM stripped down the interior of TB's truck
DM was going to have TB's truck painted red
DM's red 2005 Dodge Ram was running. (caught on video towing the trailer in Kleinburg)
TB's truck had the correct VIN number plate on the dash.
DM's truck was a gas engine
TB's truck was a diesel engine

The following have been speculated on:
VIN switch between the two trucks
Engine swap between the two trucks
DM going to Baja race in May

There are witnesses that may shed some light.
1) friends were told they were going to steel a truck- where they ever told "why" DM & MS were going to steel a truck.
2) SS was DM's personal mechanic- he may know what work DM wanted done on the stolen truck.

Also, IMHO, we didn't know about the "auto paint shop" guy until he took the stand, so there's the possibility that the Crown will have other witnesses that will shed some light into what DM was planning to do with TB's truck. MOO

I think there is also the question of why DM had a regular auto body shop and why he was willing to haul a truck from Waterloo to North York to use this particular shop. I'm sure there are a lot of shops in Waterloo that he could have used for a quick paint job.

He sure didn't appear to use an auto collision/body shop for his personal vehicles like the Yukon or the Ram so why was he so loyal to this particular shop? I found it interesting that the Crown did not ask the owner of that shop how many vehicles DM had brought to him with or without the "moldy" interiors ripped out and all identifying stickers and emblems removed and/or sanded down. Why did SS consider this standard practice? Or did he? Did he know it was stolen and just lied to AJ about the "mold" to explain the missing seats?

I think the VIN swap would not have been done until the truck was ready to be used. He still needed to use his Ram in the interim to tow the truck to the autobody shop. And it would have just been the plate in the windshield IMO. Pretty sure after seeing all the dash modifications in the Yukon that removing and replacing the dash was not a problem for these guys. When he made the call to the body shop, he probably didn't realize how big the story of TB's disappearance would get. Probably figured it would stay local to the Hamilton area. When he cancelled the appointment, he had to have realized how wide spread the story had become.

MOO

 

[matou]

I also think there is also the question of why DM had a regular auto body shop and why he was willing to haul a truck from Waterloo to North York to use this particular shop. I'm sure there are a lot of shops in Waterloo that he could have used for a quick paint job.

He sure didn't appear to use an auto collision/body shop for his personal vehicles like the Yukon or the Ram so why was he so loyal to this particular shop? I found it interesting that the Crown did not ask the owner of that shop how many vehicles DM had brought to him with or without the "moldy" interiors ripped out and all identifying stickers and emblems removed and/or sanded down. Why did SS consider this standard practice? Or did he? Did he know it was stolen and just lied to AJ about the "mold" to explain the missing seats?

I think the VIN swap would not have been done until the truck was ready to be used. He still needed to use his Ram in the interim to tow the truck to the autobody shop. And it would have just been the plate in the windshield IMO. Pretty sure after seeing all the dash modifications in the Yukon that removing and replacing the dash was not a problem for these guys. When he made the call to the body shop, he probably didn't realize how big the story of TB's disappearance would get. Probably figured it would stay local to the Hamilton area. When he cancelled the appointment, he had to have realized how wide spread the story had become.

MOO

Maybe he was going to pay him with some ebikes? JMO

 

[Kamille]

glove found in bag is different than the gloves found on DM during arrest

Maybe the files in the hangar are dusty.

That looks possibly like a "garden" or "work" type glove with a lighter coloured rubber palm?

MOO