Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[CJPRINCESS]

Been following since 2013....first time posting.
Am relieved to finally be in the trial stage....and am very much appreciating the the thought and effort in all the posts so far.

Something has been on my mind for sometime now.....has to do with the 2 scorch patterns in the farm field--One looks quite irregular as might be expected from a bonfire ( and it does look like it has been roughed up either to disguise it or to put it out more thoroughly after being lit right on top of cornstalk stubble)......But the other has very clear borders on all sides and distinct 90 degree corners as one might expect could be found under a not incinerator after it had been fired up.

Checking back on the testimony I twigged on the horse farmer who spotted lights on the barn silo at 11:30 pm on May 7 or 8......the dairy farmer (spotted dark smoke on Millard far at 6am on May 7 or 8......and then omg today with the commuter guy spotting something weird on a trailer on Kossuth Road at 5 am possibly on the 8th.....I am positively vibrating. Seem to recall that DM's phone pinged off the tower nearest the farm Tuesday morning (when he texted AJ & SS not to go to the hangar???)

I am thinking that DM and his posse were exceedingly busy in the hours following the deed in Ancaster and possibly did a first burn at the hanger (maybe even have burned enough material to require that the incinerator be cleared of ash before proceeding).
A second burn may have been required and a separate bonfire to to get rid of the soiled seats with an accelerant (they would have been to difficult to have been burnt and the metal retrieved from deep inside the incinerator)--definitely something they would not want to do behind the hanger next to a busy road.

I think they were in a hurry starting Monday night right thru to the morning of Wed. May 8.....So when AJ arrives at work Wednesday morning he sees a truck that is stripped down on a tarp looking staged and looking pretty respectable with some spray cans around it
as if someone has been working on for a couple of days. I will just bet there was no 'big redneck smoker' just sitting out in the parking lot for AJ to think on when he arrived. ( But I will not put any bets on SS if you know what I mean).

I think I just scared myself.......

Valid questions and thoughts for sure.
But, this unit is probably 4,000lbs and would not be something you would lift on and off a trailer to place on the corn field. The Incinerator is very well insulated to keep majority of the heat in and was on a trailer.

It has been mentioned that there was a strong smell of accelerate at the burn sites (they had to take breaks) as well as there were springs, seat belt buckles (3) and coins found in burn site. And the other appeared to have been attempted to be cleaned up.

Yes the almost completely squared burn is odd, maybe controlled burning with accelerate? Or the rectangular shape of the seat? Being May, the old corn stocks may not have been dry and the ground may have still been wet (I know my farm was a mud pit around May till end of May) I don't have an answer either, just my own thoughts but I'm sure we'll know for sure at some point.

The insinerator is big but not big enough to put the actually Dodge seats in it. Sorry if I read that wrong? but that is what I thought you were asking/implying?

 

[matou]

from very reliable sources "a very very close friend of dellen m. going against him in next coming days" so deep dark days ahead for DM.

Hahaha. Good on him. We know of two close friends who will testify for the Crown, SS (his mechanic) and AM (his ex roommate and Baja racing partner.)

 

[ArianeEmory]

Smiling and waving at Millard in court? Pretty gutsy.

A relative ... Or a groupie?

 

[matou]

Valid questions and thoughts for sure.
But, this unit is probably 4,000lbs and would not be something you would lift on and off a trailer to place on the corn field. The Incinerator is very well insulated to keep majority of the heat in and was on a trailer.

It has been mentioned that there was a strong smell of accelerate at the burn sites (they had to take breaks) as well as there were springs, seat belt buckles (3) and coins found in burn site. And the other appeared to have been attempted to be cleaned up.

Yes the almost completely squared burn is odd, maybe controlled burning with accelerate? Or the rectangular shape of the seat? Being May, the old corn stocks may not have been dry and the ground may have still been wet (I know my farm was a mud pit around May till end of May) I don't have an answer either, just my own thoughts but I'm sure we'll know for sure at some point.

The insinerator is big but not big enough to put the actually Dodge seats in it. Sorry if I read that wrong? but that is what I thought you were asking/implying?

I wonder if everything was placed on a tarp and then the accelerant was poured over everything. The edges of the tarp may have created the boundary of the burned area. JMO

 

[matou]

from very reliable sources "a very very close friend of dellen m. going against him in next coming days" so deep dark days ahead for DM.

Welcome farzaanagill!

:welcome4::welcome4:

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'll admit, absolutely nothing is coming to mind for me about the square burn area. I've never lived anywhere one could have a bonfire or a burn pit. Carefully creating a square line of accelerant seems weird and pointless. The seats would be in a heap and wouldn't form a perfect square. How does one even prevent the fire from spreading into the adjacent corn? (City girl here all the way.)

Even if I try to get creative, and I try to picture a large square object that would contain a burn, I can't. The Eliminator has no removable metal tray or anything , it's up on a trailer and unlikely to create a scorch on the ground, and it empties through the side. Something like a bed liner for a truck would be made of plastic.

Could they have created a square pit with bricks? If so, surely LE would have found them.

 

[Abitcountry]

I wonder if everything was placed on a tarp and then the accelerant was poured over everything. The edges of the tarp may have created the boundary of the burned area. JMO

Good thought but given that the tarp is of poly, I think it would melt a shrivel pretty quickly. I used to own a potters kiln that was lined with fire brick. Whenever I fired it I was very much aware that the outside surface did radiate heat and gloves were required to open it......I am thinking the large incinerator was on the trailer when it may have been fired up in the field and the scorch mark was created by the radiant heat of the incinerator and the metal floor of the trailer. I think the irregular scorch was where the seats were burnt yielding the heavy black and grey smoke observed by the dairy farmer. The seats likely could have fit into the incinerators' opening but I think they would have been a ***** to get back out especially if they were still warm. In all...I have been trying to reconcile the observations of a couple of witnesses and explain the marks on the field--seems my mind is fertile ground indeed and it may just be nothing more than a thought....or meanderings a to inspire others thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Kamille]

I wonder if everything was placed on a tarp and then the accelerant was poured over everything. The edges of the tarp may have created the boundary of the burned area. JMO

If you look at the picture of the burn area, only one is square IMO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?300950-Bosma-Murder-Trial-02-18-16-Day-11

So the idea that clothing or other evidence put there on a blanket or tarp and just flash burned with an accelerant seems quite possible to me. The other larger burn area, which is not so intense and square is where they found the items related to the seats.

MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

Thanks for the input. I just knew it was a puzzlement to me and if I put it out there others would have a go at it and maybe the answer would come.
Abitcountry...(used to be a city girl)

 

[musicaljoke]

glove found in bag is different than the gloves found on DM during arrest

Could the glove in the bag be a shooting glove? The one in the link isn't an exact match, but it looks close to the glove in the bag. My guess is that the glove must be rather special to DM, or he would have tossed it in the fire.

The glove in the photo seems to have a velcro strap to tighten the glove at the wrist, a safety feature found on shooting gloves.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/hatch-specialist-all-weather-shooting-duty-glove-ns430.html

 

[Boudica]

these are just a typical work glove..the brand is the same as this
http://www.bjs.com/ansellpro-hyflex-lite-size-10-work-gloves-12-pk.product.232666?dimId=2000581

it almost looks like white paint on them

Could it be bleach on the gloves?

 

[musicaljoke]

I wonder if everything was placed on a tarp and then the accelerant was poured over everything. The edges of the tarp may have created the boundary of the burned area. JMO

Good thinking! I'm going with this theory.

 

[ArianeEmory]

If you look at the picture of the burn area, only one is square IMO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?300950-Bosma-Murder-Trial-02-18-16-Day-11

So the idea that clothing or other evidence put there on a blanket or tarp and just flash burned with an accelerant seems quite possible to me. The other larger burn area, which is not so intense and square is where they found the items related to the seats.

MOO

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the square doesn't seem that large does it? I'm using the size of the corn stalks for scale, but maybe they're bigger than I think they are.

So a pile of clothes seems reasonable.

 

[Kamille]

Could the glove in the bag be a shooting glove? The one in the link isn't an exact match, but it looks close to the glove in the bag. My guess is that the glove must be rather special to DM, or he would have tossed it in the fire.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/hatch-specialist-all-weather-shooting-duty-glove-ns430.html

If you blow up the evidence pic and look at the features, it looks VERY much like the Atlas brand that billandrew posted in post #130. The blueish ribbing at the cuff and the circular logo appear to be similar. So I think it might be just a cheap work glove. And I think he may have worn them that first night at the farm and left one there? This may be the match? Shades of OJ.

 

[qdm]

Good thinking! I'm going with this theory.

square burn:
imho, the tarp would shrivel, but interior carpet may create that pattern

 

[matou]

Good overview article!

Tim Bosma trial: 5 key exhibits the jury has seen

1. Blood spatter on Bosma's truck

2. The Eliminator

3. Bosma's key found in Millard's SUV

4. Cellphone call records and GPS locations

5. Bosma's truck in the Millard Air hangar

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...al-5-key-exhibits-the-jury-has-seen-1.3455503

 

[billandrew]

square burn:
imho, the tarp would shrivel, but interior carpet may create that pattern

This makes sense. The carpet would have straight(ish) edges. They cut it out of the truck, toss it on the field, pour gasoline over it, ignite it, and a very defined scorch area is created on the ground.

 

[Juballee]

For the life of me....I cannot understand why DM would keep the file folder with the invoice and those gloves in his Yukon. Why didn't he destroy them?? Same with the surveillance DVR that he gave to CN. Why not just destroy it? Why keep the gun??

Anyone have thoughts on this? Was he really just that stupid??

These things bother me as well. These are all things that are easy to destroy, for example, a lighter would have quickly disposed of the incinerator invoice at the office, where he could have just brought it to the washroom for privacy.

Is it possible that DM had tried to protect these items to use in his defence? If the gun had MS's fingerprints, he had good reason to lock it in a box and give it to someone who wasn't MS. The crown's opening statement highlighted that MS was not given the gun back, but had to make an effort to retrieve it, which suggests to me that the person who was in charge of holding the box was possibly told to keep it from MS. Could that be why he involved CN in hiding the truck instead of someone already involved, perhaps he didn't want MS to know where it was. Or here is a possibility some people will like, perhaps he was saving it to blackmail MS later.

All my opinion only.

 

[farzaanagill]

Welcome farzaanagill!

:welcome4::welcome4:

thanks@matou.[emoji2]

 

[Abitcountry]

This makes sense. The carpet would have straight(ish) edges. They cut it out of the truck, toss it on the field, pour gasoline over it, ignite it, and a very defined scorch area is created on the ground.

I was almost there. The carpets would certainly hold the accelerant then burn and scorch the ground. The only thing is....the carpets in a vehicle are not such neat rectangles or squares. Any carpet or floor mat I ever stripped out of a car was cut to shape for the foot wells for the driver and passengers and sometimes with holes and slots for the brake and gas pedals etc.
I keep coming back in my mind to the radiant heat from the incinerator and trailer.....not unlike the radiant heat that would come off your hot coffee mug and spoil the wood surface of your once nice dining room table.
The irregular area in the photos definitely appears burnt......the square area appears to be scorched and I do believe that I see some corn stalks and leaves that actual remain inside the regular shaped area.
But it is interesting..