Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

[Abitcountry]

I brought up the white paint last night before I went to sleep because I'm still skeptical that DM was planning to paint TB's truck with it. I'm not ruling it out, but if it was true it makes no sense why DM would want the boxes of paint loaded into the Yukon. If he was planning to paint TB's truck somewhere besides the hangar (say, at the farm), why not load the paint into the 5th wheel trailer, the red Dodge Ram, or even into TB's truck itself? Having the paint in the Yukon is pointless because he'd have to use the red Dodge Ram to tow TB's truck anywhere.

The white van is a good thought, but my mind can't make any sensible explanation of it. The truth might actually be something trivial, like he was transporting the paint to Villada for some renovation job he was doing at the time. The other questions I have are:

• How many cans of paint were in a box?
• Why did DM keep a stock of boxes of white spray paint?

The answers to these questions might provide some better insight as to what DM was going to use the paint for.

Be assured billandrew it is impossible for a mind that is sane to ever completely comprehend the mind of the likes of Millard and the gang members that he had literally been grooming for quite some time.
I can't imagine using boxes and boxes of spray paint either...not on a vehicle and not in a home.....strictly for garden stakes or diy projects and cheap ones at that. He didn't have a proper paint booth in the hangar and so the cans of paint were his default setting when he wanted to do a touch up or full body job.
Lovely compliment earlier...it's all true IMO as well :toast:

 

[matou]

I think DM shot TB:

- he had gun pics that were older/earlier on his phone
- GSR in the front of cab, DM was the driver
- the gun ended up with DM afterwards
- DM was charged with buying a gun
- DM bought holsters for the gun online, and I generally feel it was his gun
- DM was gaining a wanted truck; MS was gaining only what DM doled out to him
- DM was a thrillseeker, racing and skydiving
- DM smiles and chuckles in court
- I think it was intentional, but DM had bad aim.

I don't think it matters but I also think DM shot TB. I think he shot him in the eye, just like his father. Of course he denies doing it. He would probably explain it in the same way as he did when his father died "by a sudden bleed to the brain." I didn't kill him, the bullet did. JMO

 

[cansleuther]

DM was charged with buying a gun

<rsbm>

When did this happen? Do you have a link? TIA

 

[billandrew]

A trophy.... Ugh, you may be right. It's possible too that he handed it to CN (that's whose closet the machine was in?) instructing her to throw away or destroy but she chose to hang on to them like the letters.
I'm also glad it survived to be used as evidence....

IMO the DVR, the gun(s), and the drugs were moved rather than destroyed simply because DM thought he'd be able to get them back soon. He expected the police to come back to investigate him and possibly search the hangar, his farm, and his house. He expected that in doing so, the police would come up empty handed and then basically leave him alone. IMO, DM thought that all he had to do was:

• Move TB's truck and the DVR out of the hangar. Hangar is now clean of evidence.
• Move the drugs and the gun(s) out of his home. Maple Gate is now clean of evidence.
• Hide the incinerator in the trees at the farm. They'd never think to look beyond the barn, right?

Without any other evidence or leads, how could the police ever suspect him or think to look any further? IMO this was DM's thought process and it really wasn't very sophisticated. I don't believe he was devising any elaborate plans to frame anybody.

The ambition tattoo really did DM in, and the police were able to come down on him way faster and harder than he expected. He really, really underestimated the cops. JMO.

 

[Abitcountry]

And, if we go back and look at the boatload of witnesses that have already testified, and the vast majority of whom none of us had any idea about, it will not surprise me in the least to learn of a few more that'll make our jaws hit the floor with just how much LE uncovered in this investigation. I think they did a truly phenomenal job.

And perhaps we will hear the answers to simple questions like--where were you on the night of May 6,2013 ?

Maybe there are more images on the DVR that was in the hangar....after all we have only seen mere seconds showing Smich,Millard and PEDO?....seriously , nothing else is showing up on that DVR's memory (Or is it like some witnesses?)

May be the surveillance expert will show the computer enhancements of certain portions of the Bobcat surveillance videos so that we can make out how many figures were out and about on the grassy area when the trucks were parked. Maybe those tapes show another vehicle??? Maybe we have yet to hear from the forensic gunshot acoustics experts who can add some enlightenment to the 2 booms and 1 bang recorded on the Bobcat surveillance tapes.

Maybe the Masonry videos across the road from the hangar will be extended to show the images of the hangar beyond what was shown to the court....is there anything else on those tapes....any other vehicles coming and going besides the Bosma truck the Yukon and the infamous trailer.

Maybe we will finally hear what had Smitch paranoid and paralyzed with fear...what did he see or hear that traumatized him.....and reduced Hagerman to a shaking tearful mess for 2 days on the stand some 3 years after the incident.....let's see how traumatized is Michalski.....In MH 's case his carrying on put me in mind of PTSD....what the hell did he go through that week in May 2013

The Crown has so impressed me with their methodical approach so far that when I am able to list more than a couple of things that have not yet come up....I am immediately suspicious that the Crown has not yet brought it up for a very good reason - to which now my response is now..it is getting very late and we still have miles to go before we sleep.

 

[napper505]

WM was an "animal activist". I would be very surprised to find out that WM had any guns registered to his name. Ever...MOO

Long ago before the current gun legislation in Canada, Pilots and especially bush pilots were allowed (might still exist) to fly with weapons for personal protection. CM was a pilot during the glory years of flying in Canada, Bush, far North etc.

Was it CM's PPK handed down through a couple of generations? "bugging me for weeks"

P.S. Was DM still registered as a licensed private/helicopter pilot? Transport Canada requires a medical in order to maintain that certificate every so often.

DM solo'd for Helicopter pilot @ 14 years of age, this means he is very ambidextrous. (e)Specially for a Lefty.

Napper505

 

[serenitynow123]

IMO the DVR, the gun(s), and the drugs were moved rather than destroyed simply because DM thought he'd be able to get them back soon. He expected the police to come back to investigate him and possibly search the hangar, his farm, and his house. He expected that in doing so, the police would come up empty handed and then basically leave him alone. IMO, DM thought that all he had to do was:

• Move TB's truck and the DVR out of the hangar. Hangar is now clean of evidence.
• Move the drugs and the gun(s) out of his home. Maple Gate is now clean of evidence.
• Hide the incinerator in the trees at the farm. They'd never think to look beyond the barn, right?

Without any other evidence or leads, how could the police ever suspect him or think to look any further? IMO this was DM's thought process and it really wasn't very sophisticated. I don't believe he was devising any elaborate plans to frame anybody.

The ambition tattoo really did DM in, and the police were able to come down on him way faster and harder than he expected. He really, really underestimated the cops. JMO.

I agree, billandrew. DM completely underestimated the cops. I think he was completely caught off guard by the immediate response of 150 officers and detectives that were hot on his trail within hours of his arrival at TB's home.
The moving around of the evidence and where TB's cellphone was dumped tells us a lot about DM's spatial perception. His comfort zones. I'm thinking that DM thought these locations, including the previous test drive, were geographically separate enough so as not to be easily connected to one another. Very naive on his part. He didn't even think to change his long sleeved orange shirt.

 

[Claroon]

Were you at the trial? It's hard to know about a person's remorse as it is, and it is not accurate to read between the lines of tweets only.

 

[Claroon]

I don't use LE for law enforcement, 'cause we don't use that term here in Canada, do we? I think perhaps that it's used mainly in the US. So I just type out the word 'police'. Sometimes it's hard to keep up with all the initials, but it protects innocent people from having their names connected to crimes in google searches.

I assume the term "law enforcement" covers local police, OPP, RCMP and any other type of detective. So LE is a fair use of term to not confuse who did what. imo.

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

When did this happen? Do you have a link? TIA

Sorry it was the 3 M's who were charged with SELLING a gun to DM.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

 

[napper505]

I've been trying to figure this one out since 2013

Here's the Kijji text as posted on May 8[/COLOR]: from a former user again i dunno ?

[COLOR="#FFFF00"]2007 Dodge Power Ram 3500 Pickup Truck

Please keep a look out for this truck. Our friend had it up on here 2 nights ago 3 guys came to look at it in ancaster 2 got dropped off And the other guy said he would be back. Our friend tim bosma took the other 2 guys for a test drive near the fair grounds in ancaster. No one ever came back Thay was 2 nights ago. Lisence plate 726 7zw.[/COLOR] Please call police even If u find a phone on the ground[/B]. Thanks go to the hamilton police services facebook Page.

Pasted from <http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...eywordZ2007Q20dodgeQ20ramQ203500+&cd=1&hl=en& ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a>

orange section? who would ask this question?

 

[Claroon]

Respectfully, SnooperDuper, no one has suggested that they participated in TB's murder. All that has been speculated AFAIK is that the crew that were involved in previous thefts could have been involved in the TB truck theft, and that speculation has arisen from direct evidence give by MH last week, IMO. My theory or others that I've seen doesn't say any of those mentioned above murdered TB, and in fact my theory says they were all not expecting to become involved in a murder and that DM was the murderer to their great shock and awe.

All MOO.

IMO, yes, if the jury is told to follow the evidence, the evidence seems to be setting up the theory of group fun nights of thefts. The testimonies seem to be setting up the theory that all acquaintances were in shock and thought it was out of character for DM to murder, so while DM & MS might have gone through what might go down, the others imo didn't know guns would be involved. I agree they may have been out in the field or hiding behind a bobcat but were not necessarily active participants. Evidence is pointing to DM & MS, imo.

 

[Claroon]

Wow...if just the simple act of pointing a gun at someone would be a powerful pursuader----can you imagine the impression created amongst Millard's crew if he murdered TB right before their eyes.....what a no nonsense message in a millisecond.
No wonder Smich was scared out of his mind and kicking his own azz at every turn,repeating over and over ---I eff'd up.
No wonder AM was on the phone in the middle of the night to MH.
No wonder AM and MH were sweating and all too ready to ditch a toolbox+gun and $1800 worth of pot in an empty stair well !!!!
And no wonder 3 years later, Hagerman is whimpering on the witness stand at the Bosma trial.
They were all threatened within an inch of their lives and they got an eye full how it all would end!!!...If Millard had not been arrested so swiftly, l have no doubt that this was the first step of the next level and the Eliminator was going to
start paying for itself.
Just when I thought I had pretty much heard it all.....you have taken me to a whole other level of consideration.....unfortunate as it all sounds it is nevertheless, completely believable.
Not easy to read and I am sure not easy to write....thanks Brightii :therethere:

It would be interesting to know if Dellen had lots of guns and if his father had lots as well.

Back to my quote I, of course, mean illegal unregistered guns.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Were you at the trial? It's hard to know about a person's remorse as it is, and it is not accurate to read between the lines of tweets only.

Reading the tweets initially I felt very sorry for MH as I felt he had come clean and had his trust betrayed by DM, and he was grief stricken by that.

Listening to AP's take on SoundCloud though https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/ma...he-ditched-key-evidence-in-the-tim-bosma-case it seems to me that instead MH did everything he absolutely could to cover for DM and he wept because he was forced to testify against DM or face criminal charges of his own in relation to the case.

ABro pointed out:

Ann Brocklehurst &#8207;@AnnB03 Apr 8
For the record, Tom Dungey accused Matt Hagerman of still not coming clean in his 4th, final police intvu: MH failed to mention Bobcat heist


Some things just do not come across. I didn't realize how obstructive MH truly was.

 

[Gibson67]

<rsbm>

When did this happen? Do you have a link? TIA

I don't think it was DM charged with a gun, It was him purchasing a gun from MWJ

police believe Mr. Ward-Jackson, Matthew Odlum and Matthew Jackson Wawrykiewicz, sold Dellen Millard the gun he allegedly used to kill his father

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

looks like he may have bought this gun 2010 or 2011 even...so he has been involved with this group awhile and they don't look like people to mess with. Drugs, weapons, trafficking.

&#8220;I think you might think that I&#8217;m a little more involved in this than I am,&#8221; Odlum said. &#8220;We&#8217;re going years back, this is from two or three years ago.&#8221;

http://toronto1820.rssing.com/chan-24923084/all_p102.html


One of the accused, Mathew Odlum, 27, told the newspaper his case is connected, and as he understands the police allege he illegally sold a gun to Millard.

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/04/12/e...der-dead-before-even-reported-missing-report/

 

[serenitynow123]

Sorry it was the 3 M's who were charged with SELLING a gun to DM.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

Wowzers! I Maybe this who MH, AM, and MS were afraid might be coming after them.... Moo

 

[Boudica]

Reading the tweets initially I felt very sorry for MH as I felt he had come clean and had his trust betrayed by DM, and he was grief stricken by that.

Listening to AP's take on SoundCloud though https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/ma...he-ditched-key-evidence-in-the-tim-bosma-case it seems to me that instead MH did everything he absolutely could to cover for DM and he wept because he was forced to testify against DM or face criminal charges of his own in relation to the case.

ABro pointed out:

Ann Brocklehurst &#8207;@AnnB03 Apr 8
For the record, Tom Dungey accused Matt Hagerman of still not coming clean in his 4th, final police intvu: MH failed to mention Bobcat heist


Some things just do not come across. I didn't realize how obstructive MH truly was.

Disgusting and disappointing isn't it? Billandrew you were in the courtroom that day, can you tell us what DM and MS demeanor was like when MH was testifying?

 

[qdm]

I've been trying to figure this one out since 2013

Here's the Kijji text as posted on May 8: from a former user again i dunno ?

2007 Dodge Power Ram 3500 Pickup Truck

Please keep a look out for this truck. Our friend had it up on here 2 nights ago 3 guys came to look at it in ancaster 2 got dropped off And the other guy said he would be back. Our friend tim bosma took the other 2 guys for a test drive near the fair grounds in ancaster. No one ever came back Thay was 2 nights ago. Lisence plate 726 7zw. Please call police even If u find a phone on the ground[/B]. Thanks go to the hamilton police services facebook Page.

Pasted from <http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...eywordZ2007Q20dodgeQ20ramQ203500+&cd=1&hl=en& ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a>

Bolded section I dunno

I do not believe it means anything. It could be as simple as LE telling the family that the phone was shut off. IMO finding the truck or the phone would be important clues to find tim. Back when it happened I posted on some hunting forums (tim went missing during turkey season) to keep an eye out for anything out of place, including a phone.

 

[Claroon]

If I'm reading your message correctly, that would mean a lot of the "missing pieces" theories and arguments should not be openly discussed, not just mine?

I have no idea why anyone would be so resistant to speculating about and discussing all possibilities. We are not on the jury, we're amateur sleuths.

All MOO.

ETA: bbm Absence of evidence does not necessarily equate to others not being present, IMO.

Which brings me to a question (which I'm too lazy to research) whether this site is for entertainment, or true crime reporting? I do like that we are to post backup references like a school project. But I also like to hear theories.

 

[Claroon]

It's been shared before, had MH come forward straight away; we'd have the murder weapon. We'd have more answers than questions. There would be less angst regarding what the jury is going to decide.

Are you suggesting when he found out DM had been arrested connected to the TB disappearance (was in his car at that point), that he should have driven to police?

IMO, I can see being scared and annoyed at what some criminal just passed off on me and to show up to police without consulting a lawyer or anyone with wisdom I might very well have ditched it too. At least he gave the MS name to CS.