Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

[earlygirl]

Perhaps DM intended a head shot, and missed, and shot TB in the neck instead, as TD suggested. Perhaps DM knew from experience with WM that a head shot was less messy. Brain stops the heart. The unexpected mess then would be due to DM being a bad shot rather than that he didn't intend to shoot at all.

I was rather stunned, and not surprised a legal argument started when TD suggested 'the driver shot TB in the neck' ... Where did that come from?
That was quite the 'seed' to plant. Good thing I am not on the jury. It created a visual that I have been unable to shake. I imagine the weapon is pulled out and instantly fired..I think Tim was already dead when they pulled over at the bobcat place. I suspect I won't let go of that until other testimony paints a different picture ....

 

[Inspector_North]

If he was shot at the Bobcat dealership, there would be glass fragments.

 

[palisadesk]

IMO, TB was shot somewhere north of Super Sucker, quite possibly along Wilson St W. I have lived in this area my whole life and can attest that on a Monday evening after 9pm in 2013 there may have been no other vehicles approaching for a good distance in either direction.

I'm going to put your summaries of the pertinent info together in one place here, as I think you have possibly nailed it.

Here (from post #404) you have:

8:46 pm Yukon driving south
9:05 pm Black pickup driving north
9:15 pm Black pickup driving south
9:20 pm Black pickup driving north, followed by Yukon

IMO the 9:05pm and 9:15pm sightings are also the Bosma truck, but the video times are slightly out of sync - say 2-3 minutes out - with the cell tower data (e.g. the Bate phone called Bosma's phone at 9:05pm, which does not line up with the 9:05pm video event).

There's a good 10 minute period between 9:05 to 9:15 where the black pickup is driving around somewhere beyond Super Sucker. I'm taking the position that TB was shot during this time. By 9:15pm, they are driving back toward the hayfield to pick up the Yukon. The neighbour's (Bullman's) sighting was not a precise time and could have easily happened between 9:15-9:20pm



Wilson St. is also very straight so you can see if anyone's coming from a long distance away. There is a lot of empty land and farm land around there, with lots of places like this or this where it would be easy to pull over and shoot somebody without being seen or heard.

IMO there is still a bullet and possibly some shattered glass lying in the dirt somewhere within a 5 minute drive of Supersucker.

This pretty well obviates the issues I had with whatever scenarios I could conjure up. We have DM, TB and MS in the Dodge Ram heading north on Trinity for the appointed "test drive." They pass the corner of Wilson and Trinity. I'm betting, like you, that DM turned left on Wilson - going straight would take him up to the 403 cloverleaf and traffic coming and going, while as you observe, Wilson is often deserted at night (I don't live there but drive that particular stretch at night several times a month, and between Trinity and Alberton Rd. there's nothing). An easy place to pull over. Poorly lit, no buildings close to the road. I can visualize that as the possible crime scene.

DM might well have done a quick scouting run around the area before going down to TB's house, to pick a spot for the Yukon and to plan the test drive route. And in your scenario, both accused are in the truck; the idea that the Yukon followed on the "test drive" didn't sound feasible.

Still, I'm not sure that the intent was to commit the murder that soon (or maybe at all), but possibly TB realized something was up, or tried to jump out, or something that startled one of the accused into shooting and then there was nothing for it but to hustle back, get the Yukon quickly and try to cover things up. If the shooting took place along Wilson, the glass would have been shattered there and that would explain why none was found in the field.

 

[Claroon]

That is an interesting comment you made re thinking Dellen M would do more compartmentalizing of his social circles and there are examples where he did. IMO there was no reason to compartmentalize the Toronto ones from the others as they were all cut from the same cloth. If they were friends of DM then they were sycophants.

Once Millard got into buying a gun for himself he wrote his own life sentence. I find it interesting that, correct me if I'm wrong, MarkS lived in the basement of DM's home just prior to his death.

 

[hellkat2]

I am sorry. I am too ignorant in regard to all of this to understand what you mean by the search engines would be flooded with references to WS. I don't know what WS stands for? Can you explain it in a way a dummy can understand it? I know you probably think you have...but you have a big one on your hands here when it comes to this.

 

[brightii]

IMO, unknown others were involved in the TB truck theft mission. I don't think there is evidence that LE has that can prove it, hence no additional charges for others - YET - but I really think others were in on the whole thing that fateful night of May 6th. What if there were the usual suspects used as "lookouts" nearby TB's home that indeed dropped off DM and MS at TB's home and then parked and later pulled out of the field and drove ahead to the chosen Bobcat location to meet up with DM and MS? It is possible, IMO.

Also the Crown does say in its OS to consider the evidence and witness testimony as it given and to go by that essentially should things come up in trial that point in other directions than what the Crown asserts. IMO, the Crown has its case and its own theories and is presenting it as such. In order to prove any other theories the defense would have to call witnesses or present evidence to the contrary to make a case for reasonable doubt about the involvement of either accused, IMO. I don't think either defense will be able to prove others are involved, yet they may try to allude to it by exposing through witness testimony that others are unsavory and criminal characters known to one or both of the accused and have motive to frame one of the accused?

My personal theory and all MOO is that MS was set up on a casual bet among thieves, as sick as that sounds, and outright devilish. DM wanted TB's truck for his future Baja race escapade with closest partners in crime, AM and SS, JMO. DM was both cash poor and morally bankrupt. DM was intent on having his mission accomplished and so he recruited his go-to gang, those who were ever ready and willing to help him realize his harebrained schemes on a moment's notice, all for the fun of it, no harm done, just a promise of some excitement to distract from their otherwise boring lives, and I do believe the others involved may have included CN. DM never acts alone. They just planned to be there for DM to help him on his mission to steal the truck which was scoped out for months before. All fun and games. DM chose MS as his primary accomplice much to the delight of the others, not because MS was the most trusted thief among them, but rather because he was the least stable, the one with the criminal record, Say10 video history, the wannabe rapper, the cagey demeanor, the desperate drug addict lacking confidence and needing somewhere to fit in, the one with an all around blatantly loser lifestyle as their Mark, and just on the off chance they were ever caught, they were prepared to throw him swiftly under the bus, and would make sure it was going downhill fast and completely out of control. If caught, the joke would be at the expense of dispensable and pathetic MS that night for sure! Hahahaha!

I can see them all laughing and thinking how funny such a scenario might be, not truly expecting it might happen, and likely honestly hoping it would not . . . but just in case, they had to have someone in the shadows to blame, the same story to stick to, and neat and tidy alibis all lined up, just in case LE caught them red-handed or came around asking questions, after the fact. They'd all plead ignorance and surprise and point fingers at MS! I believe DM then veered off the chosen path unbeknownst to any of them and he impulsively escalated from wanting only a truck, he wanted to use his gun and prove it was no toy and he was not one to be trifled with, to feel the ultimate power and relive it as he had known it before, (LB and WM) and chose to display it for his enamored audience, and so he went full speed ahead with his own twisted plan to kill for the thrill of it and shot TB in truck at the Bobcat location. When DM parked at the Bobcat location (so familiar with Bobcats) with the Yukon right behind, and the others were already waiting to help him subdue the driver for a time until they could all get away. DM and MS then jumped out of the truck and suddenly DM shot TB point blank while standing outside the truck but with his arm extended deep inside the cab. Silence. Shock. The laughter stopped. I think when this happened his gang was immediately awestruck and in the presence of the all-powerful DM after witnessing firsthand his blood-lust, and they were forever changed and tarnished by DM's actions. After all it was supposed to just be a simple truck theft and they didn't consider a murder, but they were all there. Now what? In the aftermath, a barrage of tense words were exchanged: WTF man! Why did you do that? OMG! and then they all scrambled to come up with a new plan, an escape route, a fresh story to tell among themselves, because now they were implicated in a murder, and they then all got into their vehicles and someone took TB's phone and on their way to wherever next, threw the phone outside the vehicle.

What were they feeling then? Panic. Pandemonium. Exhilaration. The thrill and the horror of having been a part of a gamer's fantasy that in a flash became a reality that would take time to process, knowing it could never be undone. DM had MS convinced that since DM used MS's gun, DM would have no problem accusing MS of TB's murder and DM knew none of the others would go against DM and tell the truth. MS knew it as well. Therefore, fearful of DM and the threat of TB's murder pinned on him MS agreed to help DM get rid of TB's body in the incinerator because he felt he had no other choice. MS likely thought if he didn't cooperate he too would end up killed and incinerated. He was paranoid in the days after, he was petrified and all for good reason.

Okay, now let the heckling begin...lol

Just wild speculation by me and All MOO.

 

[Lorelei1]

I think this happened May 10, the same day DM had been visited by LE. Maybe they were discussing what questions DM had been asked by LE earlier in the day and the answers that he gave so they could get their stories straight. Maybe they even discussed escape plans if necessary?

ETA - Forgot to choose reply with quote. I was referring what may have happened during DM's 50 minute visit to MS at the Speers Rd apartment.

 

[mimimic]

Anyone have any theories why the stop in Brantford at the Bobcat dealer? Were they to meet someone there? Was TB shot there?

There was a lot of blood in the back of the pick up truck. it is hard to type that

 

[Inspector_North]

...............

Okay, now let the heckling begin...lol

Just wild speculation by me and All MOO.

I would assume that all LE questioning started with. "Where were you the night of.....".

 

[hellkat2]

I think that Tim B's cell phone getting texts and calls may have triggered them to tell him to shut his phone off because they were nervous he would answer it . I don't think he would turn it off by just being asked to. I think he may have been persuaded to do so with the use of a gun pointed at him. I know others feel the cell phone could have turned off because the battery died but they said it turned off before 9 pm so....i think it is more likely it was turned off. At that moment I think the fight was on and Tim B may have knocked the gun that one of them had and got it with the other. Tim B had time to shut it off and throw it. I know others feel it was a planned murder but this just doesn't make sense to me. At one point did one of Dellens sycophants say that Dellon told them he felt bad for stealing the truck and was thinking about returning it??? What the heck?? Was Dellen attempting to infer that he had no awareness that anything other than a theft occured and had no idea about T. Bosma???

 

[Gibson67]

I think this happened May 10, the same day DM had been visited by LE. Maybe they were discussing what questions DM had been asked by LE earlier in the day and the answers that he gave so they could get their stories straight. Maybe they even discussed escape plans if necessary?

Forgot to choose reply with quote. I was referring what may have happened during DM's 50 minute visit to MS at the Speers Rd apartment.

so LE followed DM to Smich's? and MH told crimestoppers that Smich was the other guy and Smich never got arrested until the 22nd? Why? I am not getting why he was not arrested sooner...if they had arrested him on the 10th like they arrested Dm then they might have the gun, no?

 

[HackD]

Unlikely that any of these monsters wasted time on a firearm safety course. MOO

I'm definitely thinking along this line also - if DM or MS had either the PAL, or R-PAL firearm safety course, they would likely have legitimate access upon RCMP screening and approval to buying a non-restricted long-gun, and restricted semi-automatic pistol, respectively. DM to my knowledge had no criminal record on file - as such it shouldn't have been an issue for him to purchase legitimate firearms with a PAL, if he presented as a 'good boy' to the RCMP. MS .. not so much, given he's already got a few 'bad boy' credits on his rap sheet, that likely would have disqualified him from a PAL.

Point of the above - if DM and MS haven't been exposed to proper, safe firearms handling through a course (which would explain the safety off thing in one photo) then they could well have been waving a hypothetical hand-gun around with the finger on the trigger - even if the intent was to intimidate, all it would take is a good pothole jounce in the truck, or too much pressure on the trigger, and "blammo".

MS - i can definitely see either ignoring or being ignorant of the trigger finger safety position .. DM, strikes me as someone who simply wouldn't care where his finger is at.

If TB was shot by accident, or design.. the end result is the same for TB, and for MS/DM .. he was shot in the commission of a crime, being held at gun-point, therefore 1st degree murder charges for both. Red-dot == safety off.

Evidence photo as found on MS's i-pad.

 

[hippy_chic]

Do do you think that just maybe the sheer sight of a gun or two might have been enough to persuade TB to co-operate at least for a time......I know if it happened to me, I would be doing what I was told until--or at least until I finally figured out this was not going to turn out well for me and then I might try to leave the vehicle by jumping out as a last resort....I think anyone would soon figure the further they get you from the pick up spot the more serious the trouble you are likely in. MOO

MOO, I agree that the sheer sight of a gun would be enough to persuade most people to co-operate, at least until they believed fighting for their life was the only option, or until they thought they had an opportunity to escape. I only wonder about the possibility of drugging TB, in the case that murder wasn't part of the original plan...due to their faces having been seen. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised that a thrill kill was part of the plan in the first place. It will be interesting to hear the testimonies of AM, MM & CN...though I doubt the entire truth will ever be known.

 

[Lorelei1]

I am sorry. I am too ignorant in regard to all of this to understand what you mean by the search engines would be flooded with references to WS. I don't know what WS stands for? Can you explain it in a way a dummy can understand it? I know you probably think you have...but you have a big one on your hands here when it comes to this.

I think it's the name at the top of this page.

 

[brightii]

...............


I would assume that all LE questioning started with. "Where were you the night of.....".

I've considered this of course, but anyone can come up with an alibi, especially if there are others in their group willing to corroborate them, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Inspector_North]

Once it was established there were only two people involved and they wouldn't want to wreck the truck interior, I thought it would be most effective for the back seat guy to garrotte the passenger before hopping into the chase vehicle. Maybe that's how the rearview mirror got knocked off? It's not a slow process. If TB came-to on the way to the incinerator however, desperate measures would be required by the now lone driver.

There are so many possible scenarios for what happened with only two involved. For example, he could of restrained him before jumping into the Yukon. As simple as tying him up with something, tie wraps with hands behind the seat. He got free, and DM had to shoot him. And that is why MS says he f'upded.

Of course that is one of hundreds of possible scenarios that fit the evidence up to this point in the trial.

MOO

They did find and mention a box cutter. No mention if it was Tim's, used in the crime, or was simply part of the tools used to strip the truck.

 

[mimimic]

I am sorry. I am too ignorant in regard to all of this to understand what you mean by the search engines would be flooded with references to WS. I don't know what WS stands for? Can you explain it in a way a dummy can understand it? I know you probably think you have...but you have a big one on your hands here when it comes to this.

Search engines is the term used when just using the internet to look up any thing... on say... google or what ever you use to do a search for anything not on this site or even on this topic
WS shortform for this site websleuths

 

[brightii]

Don't want to totally disagree with you guys (yeh, I'm the one that would rescue the pit bull puppy too..lol) but I think I'm putting a lot more emphasis on how well developed DM was as a psychopath. He was able to keep everything organized and apart. So my theory is that for this particular mission, all that AM would have known is that DM and MS stole a truck- no mention of incinerating the owner. DM had them all on a need to participate-need to know basis.

I believe MH when he says that they were shocked and I also believe that they just could never believe that their buddy Dell, the guy that had the whole world by the tail would ever be involved in someones abduction, let alone their murder. What they did not know is that they were, and had always been nothing to Dell. Think of the emotional turmoil caused when someone marries a person from another country and then after they get their status here they take off with someone else. The left spouse feels used, abandoned-left dealing with the fact that the person wasn't who they believed they were. They're left knowing that the entire relationship was a scam. Same thing here. I do believe that AM and MH were in total and absolute shock to hear that DM may be involved with a missing person, BUT, I do believe that a little, teeny weeny part of their brains may have believed it was possible- that something had gone wrong. At that point, it still couldn't be Dell- it had to be the sketchy MS. A call from CN or perhaps MB's implicating MS right after DM was arrested would have been all they needed.

IMO, DM kept them all apart and on a need to know basis for a very good reason. DM is an actor, a fraud, a compulsive liar and a master manipulator- to continue he needed people who believed he was just doing things for fun. Psychopaths destroy many lives and I believe WM & MB's had major concerns about DM. Good cop, bad cop? WM holding DM accountable, MB's making excuses? There seems to be a common emotion with all of DM's friends: fear. Perhaps DM was portraying JV as a bit more than the low paid general contractors they really were? There's been a few mentions of "The Columbians". IMO, not one of DM's friends knew everything. DM just had them all positioned-manipulating them all, just like men on a chest board. MOO

“I aspired to that image in some ways because people wanted that of me,” he says pulling up his orange sleeves, revealing large tattoos across both arms that read “I am heaven sent” and “Don’t you dare forget.” Meaning? I did everything just for my friends- casually pulling up his sleeves to remind anyone reading.

“I threw some parties. I tried to make that a reality for my friends.”I did so much for my less fortunate friends

“He was probably the person I loved most in the world, even more than myself,” he says. “We would have deep discussions. He needed me a lot for the business.”Yep- they got so deep and WM's demands so great that WM had to go.

“I took it all pretty hard. It was a responsibility I didn’t want at that time. I was angry at (Wayne) for the things I had to do because he wasn’t there to do them.”Meaning- now tell me why I would bring this on myself?

Millard can’t speak to the woman he had been dating for two years because she is on the list of people the court says he may not contact.
But he hopes to one day. “We were in love.”Hahaha as the letters are about to surface. Simply reinforcing his commitment and love to CN- just in case she's reading

And the Baja race?
“That’s postponed,” he says, smiling. “You can predict things in life, the way things will go. But plans never go as you expect.”Very interesting choice of words here. Sounds like an apology and attempt to keeping supporters on board- hey SS/AM, things are only postponed.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html

Great post, MsSherlock! :cheers:

I think that last comment in your list of quotes (BBM) is DM getting his message out there to MS in particular, and others, that he was only intending to buy a truck but someone else i.e. MS changed the plans unexpectedly and unpredictably.

I of course don't believe DM at all.

I love your analysis of what DM was really saying in that interview.

All MOO.

 

[Errrr]

so LE followed DM to Smich's? and MH told crimestoppers that Smich was the other guy and Smich never got arrested until the 22nd? Why? I am not getting why he was not arrested sooner...if they had arrested him on the 10th like they arrested Dm then they might have the gun, no?

LE may not have had enough evidence for a search warrant at that time. Unfortunately, the media got to his house first, inducing him to bury the gun.

 

[ABro]

I've considered this of course, but anyone can come up with an alibi, especially if there are others in their group willing to corroborate them, IMO.

All MOO.

There were production orders on the phones of almost everyone in the inner circle. The phone records were entered as exhibits at trial. The tower pings show where their phones were and can be used to show if they were lying.