Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

[CJPRINCESS]

.
Red Herrings vs Satin White

If I had to make a guess DM meant to say .... pick up a couple of cases of Satin Black (not satin White)
--- he had just used up several cans of satin black on TB's truck .... (also called semi-gloss black) (or flat black)
--- I have done lots of auto painting , aircraft painting and used tons of black and never used white
--- and if a person was to order white it would be one can , not 2 boxes
--- black is excellent , and is the preferred color for covering truck floors , frames , engine compartments , nobody uses white
--- painting (house - building) walls with a spray can of white would stick out like a sore thumb

I could be wrong , but one way or the other the Satin White text is likely a red herring that has nothing to do with the truck or the trailer .... unless the crown knows something we have not been told yet .... makes me wonder why it is even mentioned in court other than it was mixed in with other texts and timelines

.

But SS testified to keeping cases of black and white on hand for painting trailers. I believe he even stated that he didn't know why DM would want satin white paint. IMO, I don't think that was an error.

Arnie, I agree 100% with what you are saying but if EVERYONE is on the lookout for a black truck, do you think DM would respray it black? I'd think he'd want a different color that wasn't being looked out for? He wanted the diesel truck for BAJA, so IMO he'd want the VIN and color changed ASAP! IMO, it was brought up just as the windshield removal (tool and SS to remove it) was to put it in the Jury's minds...DM intended to swap VIN'S and paint TB's truck red, when that failed due to "heat" coming on strong, he intended to paint it white. MOO

On another note, we have a black Dodge Ram dually, identicle to DM's red one but ours is diesel. Looks nothing like TB's, except for the color and the front clip and NO Chrome. When TB's truck was still being looked for, people were slowing beside ours and trying to see the driver. My hubby even seen a few people make calls. He assumed it was to call in his truck as a sighting. I couldn't tell you how many black Rams that I seen pulled over during that time. So again, do you think DM would really keep it black?

Not at your post Arnie, just a general comment/question to those that think it was to paint the trailer. I don't think it was intended for the 5th wheel trailer (inside or out) as it would take 10 to 14 cans to do a truck (again, not showroom ready paint). How many for a large 5th wheel trailer? Also, the trailer wasn't being saught out, why paint it? LE was looking for a truck.

 

[serenitynow123]

Alex Peirson. I generally use ABro's list or reporters https://twitter.com/AnnB03/lists/tim-bosma-trial who are at the trial daily when I transcribe tweets, and she's on it. I only don't do AC, Adam Carter, who someone picks up through his live blog, which is more detailed.

SnooperDuper, thanks for answering my question. I like the variety of different takes on a witnesses testimony and court proceedings.
You do a fantastic job of transcribing tweets. I especially like the purple ink.. It's easy on my eyes.

 

[SnooperDuper]

SnooperDuper, thanks for answering my question. I like the variety of different takes on a witnesses testimony and court proceedings.
You do a fantastic job of transcribing tweets. I especially like the purple ink.. It's easy on my eyes.

I think it is more interesting with the full variety of opinions. Colin Butler - CBC KW - has used a few harsh words that turned people off. AP does radio, so she tends to be quite colourful. Susan Clairmont and Molly Hayes of the The Spec and AC from CBC - fastest, clearest, just the facts tweeters. ABro - Ann Brocklehurst - tweets rarely, but always has a hint on what people missed and should consider again. And so on.

If you haven't followed SC on Twitter, she's quite chatty and answers just a ton of reader questions every day. We can't post a lot of these questions because we can't post non-MSM tweets and if the reporter just answers yes or no, their tweets aren't very meaningful, so if you want to catch the whole show, do check out her feed.

 

[swedie]

Are you suggesting when he found out DM had been arrested connected to the TB disappearance (was in his car at that point), that he should have driven to police?

IMO, I can see being scared and annoyed at what some criminal just passed off on me and to show up to police without consulting a lawyer or anyone with wisdom I might very well have ditched it too. At least he gave the MS name to CS.

IMO they didn't go to LE (after hearing the news on the way to Oakville) because at least one of them knew already what DM was arrested for (at least truck theft). We will hear from AM who knew DM was planning on stealing a truck and I wouldn't be surprised AM knew DM had carried it out, which of course he wouldn't admit to, as that would put him in the same hot seat as CN. MH and AM needed time to get together and concoct a story to try and put them in a better light. They had been involved in at least one serious crime DM that we know of, theft over $5000. It took MH being questioned four times before he finally divulged this to LE. Their criminal past played a role in them not going to LE. They were afraid LE would extract this info from them and they feared facing charges themselves. IMO ditching some of the evidence was very selfish on their part. They are lucky if they have avoided any charges. MOO.

 

[swedie]

I'm sure they wouldn't have ignored it, if they had been able to find the shoe with the matching tread. I wonder what they did with their clothing and it would be interesting if MM could recall which shoes MS had been wearing when he had been picked up by DM on the evening of May 6th. I believe MS is shown both before and after in those white ones with the velcro over the laces? If the two burned their clothes.. oh nevermind, I guess they could have removed their clothing while in the hangar. I was going to say.. driving a truck while sitting naked on a bucket. Sorry, it's late.

BBM :silly::hilarious:

 

[MsSherlock]

Three of the DC 3's were purchased by company called Gateway Airlines. Two were made airworthy and the third was used for parts. Buffalo Airways bought one of the DC4s. The plane hadn't flown for years and had been sitting outside. AMEs from Buffalo came and worked on it for a while and flew it out of there. It was pretty exciting to see it fly again. Those airplanes are a piece of history. As far as I know, Millard never had a hanger at the Brantford airport.

Having an association with the Canadian aviation industry, I can say that Millard Air was well known and not always in a good way. Aviation is a close knit community here. People I know were blown away when DM was arrested. That's certainly one of the reasons that I became interested in this case.

Actually, the plane that flew out to Buffalo was C-GQIC and it didn't live long after it left in 2000. Buffalo wrote it off in 2002 after it hit the approach lights and landed a few feet short of the threshold at Diavik, NT.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20020828-0

Personally, I only ever heard CM's name during conversations over a beer or two with the old timers at the 447 Wing in Hamilton. By all accounts, CM was no different than a lot of operators from that era. Knew of DM's flying achievements because I was doing a flight test right around the same time- figured if some 14 yr old could solo fixed and rotary, I should be able to pass one simple thing. I wasn't the only one surprised when MA was referred to as an aviation dynasty. For a lot of us, all we knew were the old Millardair gals rusting away on the ramp at Brantford and an old hangar at Pearson. There was no "going concern" business. It wasn't until WM started to build the hangar at Waterloo that the Millardair name really came up in conversations- it was a beautiful hangar and there were definite employment hopes for some maintenance guys and yes, there were a few of us familiar with MA dropping our coffee cups that morning when we heard DM had been arrested. MOO

 

[swedie]

So is there any proof that the toolbox and bag were left where Hagerman said?

Picking a random secluded spot, they went to the rear of a pharmacy in an Oakville strip mall and left the box and bag at the bottom of a set of service stairs. Hagerman assumed Michalski told Smich where they dumped it.

Brendan Daly, who considered Smich his best friend, told court Smich told him he had another friend collect the tool box, a man named Arthur.

Even for the brief moment Arthur had the tool box, it caused him grief — for some reason he felt compelled to tell his mother about it and she was furious. She even started yelling at Smich in Russian.

Also with this article, a photo of the toolbox and a young lady, a photo of DM I have not seen before and AM. MOO.
http://www.lfpress.com/2016/04/08/did-party-tool-box-hold-gun-that-killed-tim-bosma

 

[swedie]

I always thought the white, if it really was white spray paint DM requested, then i thought it was for the outside of the trailer..

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Spray paint...party favours? :crazy: :dunno: While some party goers indulged in "treats" from the toolbox, others may have enjoyed DM's spray paint. MS used his for graffiti. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Car cloning is a problem in Canada, says Edmonton cop

http://myinforms.com/en-ca/a/29771989-car-cloning-is-a-problem-in-canada-says-edmonton-cop/

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe DM sucked at painting? He sucked at everything else! JMO
My answer tho (from my experience) hopefully I can explain in text. Easier to show for me then it is to explain.....if the spray wasn't aimed directly into the bolt holes and only misted across the surface, the paint wouldn't directly go into the holes. It would to a degree but not fully. When I painted my 40' trailer frame. I used a combination of spray and canned Tremclad. When I had a bolt hole, just a regular pass didn't fully paint into it. I had to aim directly into the hole from a few angles (which runs occured) so I used a small detail brush to get the bolt hole fully painted.

Just going on forensic testimony and common sense. If the cab of the truck smelled of paint...the plastics (dash, door panels etc) obviously weren't painted (lots of DNA) the overhead liner, obviously not painted (DNA and GSR) seats were burnt (so obviously not those) So what else, other then the floors in the cab could have been painted?

As I know, the running board (passenger side?) was painted too.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

<RSBM>

I believe the same. DM may be the more likely of the two of them to arrogantly defy his lawyers' advice, and testify anyway. But it's possible TD wouldn't urge MS to set the record straight, even if DM decided to rat him out before the jury.

I've a feeling TD will do whatever he can to prevent MS from taking the stand, especially if he can throw doubt on or manufacture his own interpretation of witness accounts regarding the events of week of May 6 (as a poster from a previous thread mentioned). If TD can secure MS a reduced sentence without ever getting him to confess to any part of the crime, I think he would. Perhaps that's part of the job of being a Defense lawyer? Same goes for RP, but sadly for him, DM seems to a bit of a loose cannon where reason is concerned. MOO. But who knows, they might still testify or surprise even the D. lawyers with their decision to do so.

No matter who testifies: no one will say the whole truth, neither the accused nor the friends ("gang members"), IMO.

 

[chaines]

Like I said, the defense is confusing to me, and the less-than-truthful witnesses haven't helped. While I do agree that the gun most likely was in the tool box, what I don't agree with is the idea that MH actually knew that. When AM met up with MH, according to MH's testimony he claims AM told him, that DM wanted both the back pack and the tool box to go to MS. Whether we can believe that or not, is really up in the air I guess. The thing is though, I'm not sure it would have made any difference at all where the gun ended up (as in who's possession it was in) because it has already been established MS and DM were the two, and the only two, together, in Ancaster, in Tim's truck the night he was shot and killed, and then together again at the hangar, on video, when the incinerator was used to dispose of him. No matter where the gun ended up, the defense can't argue the rest of it. And even if DM is the one who fired that gun, it still doesn't matter to the Crown, according to their opening statement because it can't be proven who actually fired it and they were both there. I just can't see how MH doing the right thing would have helped MS in any way, but I think TD is spinning a lot of smoke and doing it very effectively.

Great points..I'm in full agreement 99% and the 1% comes with a huge 'if'.

 

[chaines]

Wow, with the last few days testimony and with what is upcoming how many of us wish trials in Canada were televised?

 

[andreww]

But SS testified to keeping cases of black and white on hand for painting trailers. I believe he even stated that he didn't know why DM would want satin white paint. IMO, I don't think that was an error.

Arnie, I agree 100% with what you are saying but if EVERYONE is on the lookout for a black truck, do you think DM would respray it black? I'd think he'd want a different color that wasn't being looked out for? He wanted the diesel truck for BAJA, so IMO he'd want the VIN and color changed ASAP! IMO, it was brought up just as the windshield removal (tool and SS to remove it) was to put it in the Jury's minds...DM intended to swap VIN'S and paint TB's truck red, when that failed due to "heat" coming on strong, he intended to paint it white. MOO

On another note, we have a black Dodge Ram dually, identicle to DM's red one but ours is diesel. Looks nothing like TB's, except for the color and the front clip and NO Chrome. When TB's truck was still being looked for, people were slowing beside ours and trying to see the driver. My hubby even seen a few people make calls. He assumed it was to call in his truck as a sighting. I couldn't tell you how many black Rams that I seen pulled over during that time. So again, do you think DM would really keep it black?

Not at your post Arnie, just a general comment/question to those that think it was to paint the trailer. I don't think it was intended for the 5th wheel trailer (inside or out) as it would take 10 to 14 cans to do a truck (again, not showroom ready paint). How many for a large 5th wheel trailer? Also, the trailer wasn't being saught out, why paint it? LE was looking for a truck.

I was leaning towards the theory that Millard was planning on swapping the VINs, but I still have my doubts. In Ontario all vehicles need emission tests every two years. During that test the VIN number is entered in a computer linked to the government database. The fact that one truck was a diesel and the other wasn't would have immediately been detected the first time either vehicle needed that test. And Millard would still need to get a green ownership for his red truck which would now have Bosma's VIN, as the red trucks ownership would presumably gone with Tims repainted truck.

So even though that plan sounds pretty straightforward, it's not really as simple as it sounds. I still think the windshield removal tool was ordered to get at the vin plate as most people don't remove a windshield to paint a vehicle, I just don't think the plan was to swap it with Millards VIN.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Wow, with the last few days testimony and with what is upcoming how many of us wish trials in Canada were televised?

I think with what's coming we're going to wish it even more. It's clear the Crown has saved the most damning testimonies to end their part with. I suspect we're about to find out even more details we had no clue about.

 

[matou]

Picking a random secluded spot, they went to the rear of a pharmacy in an Oakville strip mall and left the box and bag at the bottom of a set of service stairs. Hagerman assumed Michalski told Smich where they dumped it.

Brendan Daly, who considered Smich his best friend, told court Smich told him he had another friend collect the tool box, a man named Arthur.

Even for the brief moment Arthur had the tool box, it caused him grief — for some reason he felt compelled to tell his mother about it and she was furious. She even started yelling at Smich in Russian.

Also with this article, a photo of the toolbox and a young lady, a photo of DM I have not seen before and AM. MOO.
http://www.lfpress.com/2016/04/08/did-party-tool-box-hold-gun-that-killed-tim-bosma

Thanks Swede, I mean is there any video of any of these guys dropping off said items or picking them up? A medical center would have cameras. Them not remembering the place is pretty convenient IMO. I'm just curious about this. I know testimony is supposed to be considered evidence but I have doubts about a lot of the testimony. MOO

 

[Coldpizza]

Susan Clairmont 10m10 minutes ago
Former Dellen Millard roommate Andrew Michalski set to take the stand today at the Tim #Bosma murder trial. #HamOnt

 

[andreww]

But SS testified to keeping cases of black and white on hand for painting trailers. I believe he even stated that he didn't know why DM would want satin white paint. IMO, I don't think that was an error.

Arnie, I agree 100% with what you are saying but if EVERYONE is on the lookout for a black truck, do you think DM would respray it black? I'd think he'd want a different color that wasn't being looked out for? He wanted the diesel truck for BAJA, so IMO he'd want the VIN and color changed ASAP! IMO, it was brought up just as the windshield removal (tool and SS to remove it) was to put it in the Jury's minds...DM intended to swap VIN'S and paint TB's truck red, when that failed due to "heat" coming on strong, he intended to paint it white. MOO

On another note, we have a black Dodge Ram dually, identicle to DM's red one but ours is diesel. Looks nothing like TB's, except for the color and the front clip and NO Chrome. When TB's truck was still being looked for, people were slowing beside ours and trying to see the driver. My hubby even seen a few people make calls. He assumed it was to call in his truck as a sighting. I couldn't tell you how many black Rams that I seen pulled over during that time. So again, do you think DM would really keep it black?

Not at your post Arnie, just a general comment/question to those that think it was to paint the trailer. I don't think it was intended for the 5th wheel trailer (inside or out) as it would take 10 to 14 cans to do a truck (again, not showroom ready paint). How many for a large 5th wheel trailer? Also, the trailer wasn't being saught out, why paint it? LE was looking for a truck.

I'm guessing as the heat increased and the reprinting appointment was cancelled, the new plan was to paint the truck white until the heat died down.

 

[Inspector_North]

I'm guessing as the heat increased and the reprinting appointment was cancelled, the new plan was to paint the truck white until the heat died down.

I have done a considerable amount of spray painting of my old vehicles. One thing about canned spray paint is, it is very thin and would not cover black very well without first covering with a base primer.

However, if you give a black truck a quick go over with white, it will be a grayish colour using automotive white spray can paint.

MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

Wow, with the last few days testimony and with what is upcoming how many of us wish trials in Canada were televised?

I don't. Selfishly, of course it would be fascinating and "entertaining". But I would never wish the sensationalism and distortion that television coverage can create in high profile cases on our justice system. Live coverage via mediums like Twitter is an imperfect but good compromise for society I think.