Boulder Grand Jury Voted To Indict-Boulder Dailey Camera

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Ok then why the ransom note?

The burglars were caught off guard. They thought the Ramseys were in Michigan. They never expected to be discovered by a six year old who could identify them to police. They were not sure what to do next. They considered kidnapping (hence, the ransom note) but ultimately decided upon murder (or at least one of them did).
 
I suspect that this was a burglary gone bad. I suspect the burglars thought the Ramseys had already left for Michigan. I suspect that JonBenet heard them fumbling about downstairs and thought it was Santa Claus. I suspect she came down the stairs to investigate and discovered the burglars, one of whom she knew and could identify to police. I suspect that the burglars took her down to the basement until they could decide what to do next. I suspect that they considered kidnapping JonBenet and even wrote a ransom note, trying their best to sound like genuine kidnappers by quipping lines from various kidnapping movies they had seen. However, as the terrible realization that they would have to eventually kill JonBenet (since she could identify them) became an undeniable comprehension, at least one of them decided to murder her, then and there. They then left the body of JonBenet in the basement, made their exit, and swore to God that they would never burgle another home again if only they could get away with the horrible crime they had just committed.




So,who made JonBenet bleed from a injury to her vagina that night? Which one wiped down JonBenet genitals and thighs leaving the fibers from the shirt John wore to the Whites the night before behind?

Which one was wearing Pasty's red sweater, leaving behind the fibers in the paint tray and entwined in the cord around JonBenet's neck and on the duct tape that was placed on her mouth?
 
exactly-would you leave your handwriting at a murder scene?

If I was a young adult female who knew and liked JonBenet and my depraved boyfriend was already talking about killing her so to avoid being identified to police, I might consider the risk of leaving a sample of my handwriting behind in the form of a ransom note rather than be party to the murder of an innocent child.
 
Kolar is going to be on Monday with Tricia again-can't wait for that!!
 
I suspect that this was a burglary gone bad. I suspect the burglars thought the Ramseys had already left for Michigan. I suspect that JonBenet heard them fumbling about downstairs and thought it was Santa Claus. I suspect she came down the stairs to investigate and discovered the burglars, one of whom she knew and could identify to police. I suspect that the burglars took her down to the basement until they could decide what to do next. I suspect that they considered kidnapping JonBenet and even wrote a ransom note, trying their best to sound like genuine kidnappers by quipping lines from various kidnapping movies they had seen. However, as the terrible realization that they would have to eventually kill JonBenet (since she could identify them) became an undeniable comprehension, at least one of them decided to murder her, then and there. They then left the body of JonBenet in the basement, made their exit, and swore to God that they would never burgle another home again if only they could get away with the horrible crime they had just committed.

Interesting theory. Extremely unlikely, so improbable that it can be dismissed IMO, but I thank you for sharing it. I do enjoy thinking of any & every possible angle on this case, each time we can connect or dismiss bits & pieces edges us a bit closer to answers. :)

That said, I have some questions for you.

Going along with your hypothesis, let me ask you this: Why would a mere burglar or two sexually assualt JB? If-- in your theory-- they came to the reluctant conclusion they had to kill JB to keep her from identifying them, then how much of a bigger leap would it have been to sexually violate her? What purpose would it serve? And was it simply dumb luck that the coroner's report indicated prior sexual abuse? In your opinion, did the alleged burglar JB may have been able to identify know that the sexual dynamic in the R household was, umm, well, not the norm and took advantage of that fact to muddy the waters?

How did they enter? Why were there no signs of forced entry? What do you think they were out to take in the first place? If they were after large items, how would they get them out of the house without being seen? How would they transport them? If they were an experienced team of burglars, wouldn't they have cased the R home prior to hitting it? Would they not have noticed the Rs arrived home that evening? Why not wait for the next night, when the Rs would have been away in Charlevoix? (The "insider" burglary suspect you theorise of might have known that, right? Or maybe not. What do you think?)

If they had entered the home and suddenly came upon JB, why not simply grab her and get out? Why the ransom note, the search for objects in the household to tie & restrain her... wouldn't that all have taken a long time and put them in greater risk of discovery? Why not just grab her & leave?

Most of all-- why would they bother to redress her and leave her covered in a blanket? That could show (and does especially if we consider JR/PR to be involved) remorse and a wish to "comfort" the now dead child. But why do you feel a burglar would go to that step?

If these experienced burglars made a mistake, and the result was that they had to kill JB, and then made a solemn vow to walk the straight and narrow from then on, how long to you think that vow of goodness would last? Look at the recidivism rate on crime-- if these were professional burglars, one's who were engaging in crime for reasons other than survival (e.g. stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving child) do you think they could really stay clean-- or quiet-- this long? if so, it's a conversion far more effective & "real" than any the R's seem to claim in their "perfect Christian" attempt at appearance.

If they (the hypothetical burglars) were truly that remorseful, then why basically torture the child? Not just the vaginal penetration with what may have been a paintbrush of PR, but the head blow, the marks elsewhere on the body, the slow strangulation, etc. Did the remorse come after a snap that made them act so viciously?

Most of all, given the rates of family homicides, how does burglary gone wrong seem more plausible? Is there a particular piece or pieces of evidence that really stick out to you on this, and what is it?

I think that is all I have for now, am looking forward to reading more from you... even if I don't agree. :) Discussion on this topic is always insightful even when we aren't all of the same mind.
 
I would have no trouble, were I a member of the jury, in understanding why Patsy wrote the ransom note and then left JB's body in the house.

Patsy kept all her dirty secrets in that house.

Outside, to the world, she wished to show only perfection, beauty, wealth, accomplishment...but in that house, her child wore fecal stained underwear, there was mess and disorder, dirt..and God knows what else. Children still wetting and defecating in their beds. Far from the "she's-got-it-all" image that Patsy worked so hard to project every time she stepped outside. In that house, the masks came off...but reality was hidden. And the outside world remained in utter admiration of the Perfect Ramseys.

Patsy also saw the world as her stage...with the rest of the population waiting breathlessly for the next appearance of her "total package" perfection. (if my child were brutalized and found dead in my home, I doubt I could get out of my nightgown,much less assemble a wardrobe of Jackie Kennedy mourning ensembles complete with hats) If she left the house, even in the middle of the night, I think Patsy feared being seen. Because when you live for attention, you think you ALWAYS have it.

Much better chance of bluffing your way through the scenario of your dead child in your basement..then in the trunk of the car you are driving in the middle of the night.

Patsy wasn't a woman of action, ready to bundle up JB and drive away with her dead body in the cold nasty night...but she was a woman of drama...and she fell back on that skill. Patsy created a drama...a made for TV movie: the over-the-top ransom note, the staging...all Patsy the Drama Queen, using her most reliable skills to deal with her most horrific problem.

A drama produced and staged in that SAFE house where all her other dirty secrets were kept. Her dead child nestled next to her favorite blanket..not freezing on a mountainside, left to be ravaged by animals or the cold. I think JR was part of it, but the stage play was written and directed by Patsy. And I do believe it began with BR.

Patsy would wait till morning..then like the Paegant Winner she was...on with the show...on HER stage...where she felt in control.
 
I would have no trouble, were I a member of the jury, in understanding why Patsy wrote the ransom note and then left JB's body in the house.

Patsy kept all her dirty secrets in that house.

Outside, to the world, she wished to show only perfection, beauty, wealth, accomplishment...but in that house, her child wore fecal stained underwear, there was mess and disorder, dirt..and God knows what else. Children still wetting and defecating in their beds. Far from the "she's-got-it-all" image that Patsy worked so hard to project every time she stepped outside. In that house, the masks came off...but reality was hidden. And the outside world remained in utter admiration of the Perfect Ramseys.

Patsy also saw the world as her stage...with the rest of the population waiting breathlessly for the next appearance of her "total package" perfection. (if my child were brutalized and found dead in my home, I doubt I could get out of my nightgown,much less assemble a wardrobe of Jackie Kennedy mourning ensembles complete with hats) If she left the house, even in the middle of the night, I think Patsy feared being seen. Because when you live for attention, you think you ALWAYS have it.

Much better chance of bluffing your way through the scenario of your dead child in your basement..then in the trunk of the car you are driving in the middle of the night.

Patsy wasn't a woman of action, ready to bundle up JB and drive away with her dead body in the cold nasty night...but she was a woman of drama...and she fell back on that skill. Patsy created a drama...a made for TV movie: the over-the-top ransom note, the staging...all Patsy the Drama Queen, using her most reliable skills to deal with her most horrific problem.

A drama produced and staged in that SAFE house where all her other dirty secrets were kept. Her dead child nestled next to her favorite blanket..not freezing on a mountainside, left to be ravaged by animals or the cold. I think JR was part of it, but the stage play was written and directed by Patsy. And I do believe it began with BR.

Patsy would wait till morning..then like the Paegant Winner she was...on with the show...on HER stage...where she felt in control.

:rocker:
 
As the cliche goes, any prosecutor worth his salt can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. Hunter would have been massacred at trial and he knew it.

Forget the ham sandwich, send up a Monte Cristo. The trial would be a proving ground and the FBI has already stated they will help prosecute the case. I can imagine Boulder would have a lot of pro bono lawyers, jumping at the chance to right the wrongs and get justice for JonBenet.

Besides, AH retired.

I'm not a mind reader. You need to ask John Ramsey that question.

Thank you!! Logic!!

I suspect that this was a burglary gone bad. I suspect the burglars thought the Ramseys had already left for Michigan. I suspect that JonBenet heard them fumbling about downstairs and thought it was Santa Claus. I suspect she came down the stairs to investigate and discovered the burglars, one of whom she knew and could identify to police. I suspect that the burglars took her down to the basement until they could decide what to do next. I suspect that they considered kidnapping JonBenet and even wrote a ransom note, trying their best to sound like genuine kidnappers by quipping lines from various kidnapping movies they had seen. However, as the terrible realization that they would have to eventually kill JonBenet (since she could identify them) became an undeniable comprehension, at least one of them decided to murder her, then and there. They then left the body of JonBenet in the basement, made their exit, and swore to God that they would never burgle another home again if only they could get away with the horrible crime they had just committed.

:waitasec::floorlaugh::please::banghead:

I'm not sure if you are joking, as there is no way. For one, a person attempting to rob a house, then killing a child in said house, would not know the bonus amount JR got that year, so as to request that amount as a ransom demand would probably bee a million to one against using the same dollar figure.

Secondly, as you yourself stated, why wouldn't they say they were going to kill JonBenet, since they did, instead of writing the 'war and peace' ransom novel.

Thirdly, If two robbers were rummaging in the house, for paper, pen, flashlight etc, wouldn't Burke, who stated he could hear the refrigerator door, hear them and investigate also?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: And that is just the two minute response to your post. Awfully smart or totally dumb robbers.
 
I would have no trouble, were I a member of the jury, in understanding why Patsy wrote the ransom note and then left JB's body in the house.

Patsy kept all her dirty secrets in that house.

Outside, to the world, she wished to show only perfection, beauty, wealth, accomplishment...but in that house, her child wore fecal stained underwear, there was mess and disorder, dirt..and God knows what else. Children still wetting and defecating in their beds. Far from the "she's-got-it-all" image that Patsy worked so hard to project every time she stepped outside. In that house, the masks came off...but reality was hidden. And the outside world remained in utter admiration of the Perfect Ramseys.

Patsy also saw the world as her stage...with the rest of the population waiting breathlessly for the next appearance of her "total package" perfection. (if my child were brutalized and found dead in my home, I doubt I could get out of my nightgown,much less assemble a wardrobe of Jackie Kennedy mourning ensembles complete with hats) If she left the house, even in the middle of the night, I think Patsy feared being seen. Because when you live for attention, you think you ALWAYS have it.

Much better chance of bluffing your way through the scenario of your dead child in your basement..then in the trunk of the car you are driving in the middle of the night.

Patsy wasn't a woman of action, ready to bundle up JB and drive away with her dead body in the cold nasty night...but she was a woman of drama...and she fell back on that skill. Patsy created a drama...a made for TV movie: the over-the-top ransom note, the staging...all Patsy the Drama Queen, using her most reliable skills to deal with her most horrific problem.

A drama produced and staged in that SAFE house where all her other dirty secrets were kept. Her dead child nestled next to her favorite blanket..not freezing on a mountainside, left to be ravaged by animals or the cold. I think JR was part of it, but the stage play was written and directed by Patsy. And I do believe it began with BR.

Patsy would wait till morning..then like the Paegant Winner she was...on with the show...on HER stage...where she felt in control.

....just to add to such an excellent summary-post: the PROPER BURIAL was very much important to Patsy! Like 'proper' house and 'proper' family's update news-letters, Patsy was driven on show-off the final event. She would never miss the apportunity to perform the final 'proper' act of showing-off her princess in coffin. In proper way, in proper dress, by the final curtain.

An excellent portrait of John Ramsey wife: the beauty queen Patsy Ramsey!

Thank you stmarysmead
 
Not sure what happened. Double post, once before and once after another poster?
 
I found out about this just by chance this afternoon. Shepard Smith and Andrew Napolitano were talking about it. I was not surprised. Am I not the one who has been saying this for YEARS? Far be it from me to say, "I told you so," BUT...

I TOLD YOU SO!

Alex Hunter says that he didn't think he could win a case, so he shut it down. Of course HE couldn't win a case! He had not taken one to trial in ten years! He was afraid that he would work up a sweat, and we couldn't have that! Not so close to retirement!

Don't get me wrong, folks: normally I appreciate it when a person knows their own limitations. But Alex Hunter was not a plumber or an accountant; he was a prosecuting attorney elected to protect society from the criminal element. His job is too important to be held by a hack. Moreover, we as a society cannot afford our DAs to be second best. I have no problem with him realizing his own faults as a prosecutor. BUT, if he had truly cared about justice in this case, he would have stepped aside and placed it in the hands of someone who COULD do it.

I too am interested about the timing of this.

I truly wanted to post something about this breaking news of a case I've been following for years. But, I'm still trying to pick my lower jaw up off the desk.

Thank you Super Dave for this post. You've said it all when it comes to the reasons behind Alex Hunter's rash decision about the GJ findings.

I am waiting to see where this leads. I hope this news uncovers more behind the scenes actions by officials in the DAs office on handling the death of a little girl and why she didn't receive justice.

It's never too late to roll this out again and put JR in the hot seat along with Hunter and other DAs who followed over the years.

With the release of this news, I am encouraged.
 
Wow - it's been an amazing 36+- hours. Most of us are on the same wave length of emotions bouncing between shock, glee, anger, loathing, hope, and even apprehension. We feel so vindicated in learning the truth about the work of the GJ. I am exhausted from being glued to the forums and shortchanging my sleep, but it's like the kind of exhaustion a new mother has when tending to her baby in those early weeks -- the tasks wear you out, but oh, the reward that comes from that nurturing.

In the days ahead, we can keep any apprehension we might have, of no response from credible parties who could bring us more truths and answers, at bay by being diligent in continuing to seek out any additional information that could assist in moving this case forward. :eye:

Forget about trolls, naysayers, or those who are uninformed and want to stay that way so they won't have to look at any truths that require them to use common sense they don't have. :ignore:

Justice for JonBenet won't happen overnight - it's taken 16 years to get this far. There's an old saying: Nothing worth having comes easy. :fight:

Though I do think it might be easier if I would get some sleep! :eek:fftobed:
 
BBM WHAT REAL EVIDENCE??

In answer to your question about the War & Peace of ransom notes: For the obvious reasons! To deflect suspicion away from the family! HELLO!

Nom de plume, can I add another reason for the ransom note being composed and left for officials to consider?

I have always viewed the ransom note as a blueprint to explain why after the fact LE would find a dead child in the basement of the home. Even though it turned out it was a family member who would make it appear they "found" the body.

Sooner or later, the parents knew Jon Benet's body was going to be discovered. They set it up thinking LE would be the ones who would find her. The Ramsey's had few options of how to put an outcome on their daughter's death.

I am sure John and Patsy considered leaving the home and dumping her body elsewhere. After all, kidnapping means "gone," not at the house. But they must have seen this was not possible. So, they invent a kidnapping which required evidence - a note explaining her disappearance and later in foresight, her dead body would be in the basement of the home where she lived.

The note itself, if looked at carefully, is not a ransom note. Notice that it does not approach a real kidnapping plan which would be to exchange the child for money. Within that long ransom note there is no care given to explaining how the exchange would be conducted.

There are strict rules within the note for John to be rested and how to prepare the money. Even down to what type of container the money would be put in to. But when it comes to day and time for an exchange, the only thing mentioned in the note is "we will call you tomorrow." If the idea of a kidnapping is to be paid money, these kidnappers do not make that instruction, which would be ultimate point of a kidnapping, clear.

But that instruction is not based on any clarification of which "tomorrow" is the right tomorrow. No date within the note as to when the note was written, no date or day given to pinpoint the day for the exchange or an exact day the details would be give to the parents for the return of their daughter.

And, there didn't need to be with this bogus ransom note. If you work backwards from the discovery of a dead child, the note tells a story. The parents knew their child was dead and tucked away in the basement. They didn't need instructions for claiming their daughter, what they needed was something to hand to officials as to why in time, when a search was conducted inside the home, a dead body would be found. The object of the note was advance information for LE, not the parents. Which gives an idea of who wrote the note to begin with.

While your reason to shine suspicion away from the parents is certainly true, I think my idea of a ransom note presence is just as valid to protect the parents.
 
:goodpost:
I would have no trouble, were I a member of the jury, in understanding why Patsy wrote the ransom note and then left JB's body in the house.

Patsy kept all her dirty secrets in that house.

Outside, to the world, she wished to show only perfection, beauty, wealth, accomplishment...but in that house, her child wore fecal stained underwear, there was mess and disorder, dirt..and God knows what else. Children still wetting and defecating in their beds. Far from the "she's-got-it-all" image that Patsy worked so hard to project every time she stepped outside. In that house, the masks came off...but reality was hidden. And the outside world remained in utter admiration of the Perfect Ramseys.

Patsy also saw the world as her stage...with the rest of the population waiting breathlessly for the next appearance of her "total package" perfection. (if my child were brutalized and found dead in my home, I doubt I could get out of my nightgown,much less assemble a wardrobe of Jackie Kennedy mourning ensembles complete with hats) If she left the house, even in the middle of the night, I think Patsy feared being seen. Because when you live for attention, you think you ALWAYS have it.

Much better chance of bluffing your way through the scenario of your dead child in your basement..then in the trunk of the car you are driving in the middle of the night.

Patsy wasn't a woman of action, ready to bundle up JB and drive away with her dead body in the cold nasty night...but she was a woman of drama...and she fell back on that skill. Patsy created a drama...a made for TV movie: the over-the-top ransom note, the staging...all Patsy the Drama Queen, using her most reliable skills to deal with her most horrific problem.

A drama produced and staged in that SAFE house where all her other dirty secrets were kept. Her dead child nestled next to her favorite blanket..not freezing on a mountainside, left to be ravaged by animals or the cold. I think JR was part of it, but the stage play was written and directed by Patsy. And I do believe it began with BR.

Patsy would wait till morning..then like the Paegant Winner she was...on with the show...on HER stage...where she felt in control.

:goodpost: I totally agree !!
 
I have to concur with the estimable MM, Ignore the troll! DD, hand me some popcorn!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
BBM Where have you been? This has been discussed as nauseum! You have participated in these discussions!

2nd BBM Through Touch-DNA! Just like the other 5 unknown males and 1 unknown female. Yet he was a family member, and would have every innocent reason for his touch-DNA to be everywhere in the house and on JB! Again...his TOUCH-DNA has no more signifigance on the pink barbie nightie than any other TOUCH-DNA has in the house! Should they have found any of BR's direct DNA or fiber evidence in the WC, that would have made all the difference. How can you say that BR's Touch-DNA is any more relevant than the 6 partial unknown Touch-DNA samples?

Nom de plume,
There are two possible BDI's one with legal immunity, and another where BPD and the DA, have not considered BR as a serious suspect.

Is this the main thrust of Kolar's book?

BR's touch-dna is very relevant because its been identified, the other unknown touch-dna has not.

BR's touch-dna links him with the contents of the wine-cellar, never mind a potential direct connection to JonBenet, since she likely wore that bloodstained Pink Barbie Nightgown, i.e. thats why its in the wine-cellar.

All three Ramseys are now linked, via forensic evidence, with the wine-cellar!


.
 
I truly wanted to post something about this breaking news of a case I've been following for years. But, I'm still trying to pick my lower jaw up off the desk.

Thank you Super Dave for this post. You've said it all when it comes to the reasons behind Alex Hunter's rash decision about the GJ findings.

I am waiting to see where this leads. I hope this news uncovers more behind the scenes actions by officials in the DAs office on handling the death of a little girl and why she didn't receive justice.

It's never too late to roll this out again and put JR in the hot seat along with Hunter and other DAs who followed over the years.

With the release of this news, I am encouraged.

azwriter,
Is it coincidental that it backs up Kolars suggestion that prosecution is still viable. Since the GJ voted to indict.


.
 
Let me start with a disclaimer that I have no where near the knowledge and expertise of this case that most of you "regulars" possess. But , if seated on that jury, I do know how I would argue against the Intruder theory with just plain common sense.

Most intruders have two things in common. They go into a house wanting something...and unless, they have everything and everyone IN THAT HOUSE under their complete control, they want to get in, get what they want, and get out.

So what did these mythical intruders want? Well, if kidnappers, they wanted a Ramsey child, or maybe, specifically, Jon Benet. Well, THEY HAD HER. Why not just get out? They might have taken her to a place where they had no risk, and amused their sexual fantasies to their wicked hearts content. Why stay in a house where their are two uncontrolled adults, probably a panic button on that security system, maybe a weapon. Why not take JB to THEIR safe place as quickly as possible?

If kidnappers, they had what they came for. Why not get out?

Then there is the ransom note. Okay, let's presume they just forgot to prepare and write one. Now, are we to believr that these Intruders are down there in the basement saying "gosh, darn...go back upstairs and hunt in the kitchen for paper and a pen!" Once again, in an unsecured location for them (and maybe a dead child on their hands)...are they such perfectionists that they write a practice note? Or a note of such unnecessary long length?

I would ask my fellow jurors if they ever wrote a note in an emergency, when they had an urgency to get out of the house (I would think a dead child would create a sense of urgency) Probably, any of us would scribble.."Dad fell. Going to hospital. Call later." NOT decide to ramble on in laborious detail, adding inside jokes, and descriptive passages. But we are asked to believe THESE intruders felt no sense of urgency to get out of the Ramsey house.

Which leads me to another thought. If they came to burgle, and not to kidnap, was there any evidence of another car or van being at the Ramsey's late that night? Because if I'm planning a robbery, it would be nice to be able to get the purloined items home with me. And what of value were they after on the first floor? Were they planning to haul antiques or steal TV's? I would think Patsy's jewelry would be of more interest...and that likely would be on the third floor with her. Otherwise, they have some heavy lifting to get anything of value out of that house.

But lets suppose these Intruders get into the house, realize the Family is upstairs asleep, and while they are pondering their options, are discovered by JB. Yes, I can see them leading her downstairs and I can see the blow on the head. But, really? are they going to take time for a little sex play?

Really? ("Hey, lets not leave...I' m really attracted to this kid and I dont want to wait till we get out of here.")

Please! that's when it seems to me ONLY LOGICAL...that our Intruders REALLY, really want to get out! Why assault her THERE or kill her there...when someone might press that panic alarm button on the security system or confront them, etc. at any second? Yes, I can see a blow to the head in a panic. But now, they decide to clean the dead child up, change her panties, wrap her in a blanket? And no, they STILL aren't ready to leave with a dead child now on their hands? If i believe this, I ask myself why they didn't go back upstairs and have a little breakfast!

But we are asked to believe the Intruders GO UPSTAIRS AGAIN...to forage around for pen and paper. They have already (by this theory) been discovered once by JB...but, hi-ho, back upstairs they go. And they not only write a long, folksy ransom note, they put extra effort in by doing a practice note first. Then they sashay to the back stairs, drop the note, and go back downstairs, to FINALLY crawl out the entry window...ONCE AGAIN without disturbing cobwebs.

Just one logical person,or one DA with compassion for a long dead child could make that logical case...if only this case could come to trial.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
101
Guests online
2,524
Total visitors
2,625

Forum statistics

Threads
603,449
Messages
18,156,801
Members
231,734
Latest member
Ava l
Back
Top