Bruce Jenner Becoming a Woman and more...

[newone]

I'm curious what his children think about all of this? We can all have comments over this, but the people that matter are his kids and what toll it has taken on them. His kids can say it is what he wants, and whatever else they are saying publicly, but is it really what they think?

his kids are all grown....I would 'hope' that they would just want to see their Dad happy...I would be pretty stunned if my dad had opted for gender reassignment but I would have to say I wouldn't toss him to the curb. He would still be Dad to me. MOO

 

[TripleA]

There are much worse things that one could find out about their dad - trust me.

 

[leah]

his kids are all grown....I would 'hope' that they would just want to see their Dad happy...I would be pretty stunned if my dad had opted for gender reassignment but I would have to say I wouldn't toss him to the curb. He would still be Dad to me. MOO

I understand that, but whether they are grown or not, it is a big shock. One questions if you ever knew your dad, was it all a sham, was he always this unhappy, and I could go on and on. When you have something like this happen, those thoughts never go away, and even if you want your dad or another family member to be happy, it doesn't change the betrayal one may feel. I had this happen to me, with not one but two loved ones that meant everything to me, wasn't a sex change, but it might as well been in my eyes. I haven't and never will trust anyone again, and I was older than BJ's kids when this all went down. Just saying, I do feel for his kids IMO I kind of feel what they may be feeling. My life experience has me confused with all this.

 

[newone]

I understand that, but whether they are grown or not, it is a big shock. One questions if you ever knew your dad, was it all a sham, was he always this unhappy, and I could go on and on. When you have something like this happen, those thoughts never go away, and even if you want your dad or another family member to be happy, it doesn't change the betrayal one may feel. I had this happen to me, with not one but two loved ones that meant everything to me, wasn't a sex change, but it might as well been in my eyes. I haven't and never will trust anyone again, and I was older than BJ's kids when this all went down. Just saying, I do feel for his kids IMO I kind of feel what they may be feeling. My life experience has me confused with all this.

I hear you......

Discovering that a loved one is not what they have appeared to be is more than ''confusing'' and has the potential to be devastating for sure.

 

[OldSteve]

How can you possibly form an opinion on this subject without the benefit of undergoing a transition? How could I?

Personally, since I have no desire to be anything other than male, I'm not so arrogant as to think I can judge the the costs v. the benefits.

So I take those directly affected at their word. Well, their word and that of their doctors.

Hope you do not think I am for expressing my opinion.... mention of doctor's has me thinking of the trust Joan Rivers had in her doctors...

 

[OldSteve]

Some of us just can't fathom what the "big deal" is. I'm female but if I were born male that would be fine too. Of course there ARE differences, and part of me thinks it would be nice to have more physical strength and be less affected by mood/hormones.

But beyond that I see gender as very much being about sex, as in using it to GET sex with the partners/gender of your choice. When I intentionally dress or act in a "feminine" manner there is always a reason behind it, to attract partners, to use it in business, to talk a man into changing a tire, or even to calm animals. Without "the other" it doesn't exist.

If your gender does not hinder you with regard to attracting sexual partners (and in the Western world it doesn't) I don't get what the big deal is.

I am not saying others can't feel that way, I am simply saying that is how some of us feel and it is hard to understand why it is such an obsession for others.

Well said! I can't help but think the crazy things sex pushes us humans into. Wow! all the pain and time one would have to spend with doctors, hospitals, recovery...
But, it's his life and choice... as for me, just to be healthy, oh that would be so nice!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It's great everyone voicing their opinions and concerns, but some are way off the mark.

Unfortunately, people throw transsexual men/women into the 'sex pervert' category, it's a shame because it's very far from the truth.

This is the fallacy that 'tranny chasers' believe in, which for them is all about the sex. If these men visit the 'ladies' of the night, who have a functioning penis and have cosmetic surgery to look female, their opinion would be trans women are equal to them with their sexual urges, and they're probably right. These 'ladies' still have a decent amount of testosterone coursing through their veins to keep the sex drive going and the penis functioning. Some take the fast route to transitioning if they're broke/unemployed by selling their bodies, so that they can eventually take the full hormones/complete their transitioning and leave that world behind. This isn't typical, but the uneducated public like to believe so.

Women/men should educate themselves before listening to the men who spout this kind of misinformation. If one only meets prostitutes, (and I must add, I have no problem about the sex industry, there's a need for it), the men are in for a rude awakening when they meet the real deal out in the world.

Those trans women who are known by a derogatory name in the *advertiser censored*/sex industry, do not represent the 'average' trans woman taking hormones and t blockers, it's like comparing women in the *advertiser censored*/sex industry to the 'average' woman in the street. It is insulting to say the least. It's truly a shame that some people get their education from *advertiser censored* sites, is that where a young man should forge his opinion on women, his mother, his future partner? I don't think so.

Most boys/girls are transitioning before the full effects of puberty take hold, so the general public will interact on a daily basis with transitioned individuals and never know. It's pretty disrespectful to imply it's about the sex act for these young people. It's about their identity, their mind matching their bodies. It's NOT about a fetish.

 

[Nova]

Some of us just can't fathom what the "big deal" is. I'm female but if I were born male that would be fine too. Of course there ARE differences, and part of me thinks it would be nice to have more physical strength and be less affected by mood/hormones.

But beyond that I see gender as very much being about sex, as in using it to GET sex with the partners/gender of your choice. When I intentionally dress or act in a "feminine" manner there is always a reason behind it, to attract partners, to use it in business, to talk a man into changing a tire, or even to calm animals. Without "the other" it doesn't exist.

If your gender does not hinder you with regard to attracting sexual partners (and in the Western world it doesn't) I don't get what the big deal is.

I am not saying others can't feel that way, I am simply saying that is how some of us feel and it is hard to understand why it is such an obsession for others.

Sonya, I have to admit I've had the same thoughts myself. Since we now allow women to vote, work outside the home, dress in traditionally male shirts and pants, etc. and so forth (and we could make a similar list for biological men), why is it necessary to make a formal (and even surgical) change?

I don't know the answer, but the fact is people undergo considerable expense and pain to transition, so I have to conclude gender still matters.

And the fact is we all "perform" gender in every waking moment, whether or not we are aware of it. So if John Doe wants to become Jane Doe, what's it to me?

 

[MsFacetious]

Many of the people who have transitioned have explained these things.
Kids have been known to try and cut off their male genitalia.
It disgusts them, haunts them, horrifies them because it feels so WRONG.

I can completely see why one would want to have the surgery.
People have surgery because they hate their nose, their *advertiser censored*, their flabby stomach.
I highly doubt that level of hatred is as strong as those born in the wrong body. :twocents:

 

[SStarr33]

Bruce to Family
I Knew I Was a Woman
Since Age 5
2/16/2015 1:00 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF


http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/16/bruce-jenner-transgender-sex-change-woman-kardashians-diane-sawyer/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2955424/Bruce-Jenner-known-female-aged-5.html

 

[SStarr33]

Taking charge of his gender transition, Bruce Jenner tapes a TV interview - only to endure a deadly crash days later

http://www.bostonherald.com/inside_...his_gender_transition_bruce_jenner_tapes_a_tv

 

[Donjeta]

'I can't believe Bruce Jenner is trying to become a woman? He was a hero of mine since I was involved in track long ago.#Sayitsnottrue,' the 81-year-old tweeted on January 31.

Doyle added to another Twitter user: 'This man was an Olympic champion that set all kind of records. That's a woman? My hero? Come on!

'I remember the pride I felt when Bruce Jenner ran around the track waving an American flag after setting records in the Olympics.

'Bruce's transition to a woman was confirmed today. He may still be some peoples hero, but not me.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Jenner-known-female-aged-5.html#ixzz3Rv8scggs

Everybody's got the right to pick their heroes but I still find this rather sad. How does transitioning take anything away from his sports achievements? A man can be a hero but a woman can't? If you pass for normal your strength and speed are worth something but if you express your gender confusion they suddenly aren't?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Jenner-known-female-aged-5.html#ixzz3Rv8scggs

Everybody's got the right to pick their heroes but I still find this rather sad. How does transitioning take anything away from his sports achievements? A man can be a hero but a woman can't? If you pass for normal your strength and speed are worth something but if you express your gender confusion they suddenly aren't?

I think everyone has a right to their feelings and people should not have to defer to others whatever those feelings are. If that changes how they view that person, their feelings are their feelings. We say that all the time about the people who are pro changes but those who are not, are then shamed for not feeling the same way.
No one is saying he shouldn't do it, or does not have the right to do it, but we are all entitled to our feelings about it, good, bad or indifferent.
I don't know why there is a need to shame people for not feeling okay with everything that everyone does.

 

[Donjeta]

I think everyone has a right to their feelings and people should not have to defer to others whatever those feelings are. If that changes how they view that person, their feelings are their feelings. We say that all the time about the people who are pro changes but those who are not, are then shamed for not feeling the same way.
No one is saying he shouldn't do it, or does not have the right to do it, but we are all entitled to our feelings about it, good, bad or indifferent.
I don't know why there is a need to shame people for not feeling okay with everything that everyone does.

I think you're reading into things. There was no shaming, I did not say that anyone has to defer to others or that he doesn't have the right to his feelings.

If you read again you will notice that I said everyone has the right to pick their heroes. Then I shared my feelings, which, according to you, I am entitled to.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think you're reading into things. There was no shaming, I did not say that anyone has to defer to others or that he doesn't have the right to his feelings.

If you read again you will notice that I said everyone has the right to pick their heroes. Then I shared my feelings, which, according to you, I am entitled to.

You also then said it was sad that they felt that way.
This is about how people feel about the core issue. Bruce and his choice to change his identity. I just don't think people should have to be questioned about why they may not feel okay or good about it.

 

[Donjeta]

You also then said it was sad that they felt that way.
This is about how people feel about the core issue. Bruce and his choice to change his identity. I just don't think people should have to be questioned about why they may not feel okay or good about it.

Yes I said *I* think it's sad. That's about *my* feelings on the issue. I did not say that everyone has to feel the same.

I wonder why you feel the need to question me about why I feel.

Rhetorical question, no need to go around taking the thread OT.

 

[Nova]

I understand that, but whether they are grown or not, it is a big shock. One questions if you ever knew your dad, was it all a sham, was he always this unhappy, and I could go on and on. When you have something like this happen, those thoughts never go away, and even if you want your dad or another family member to be happy, it doesn't change the betrayal one may feel. I had this happen to me, with not one but two loved ones that meant everything to me, wasn't a sex change, but it might as well been in my eyes. I haven't and never will trust anyone again, and I was older than BJ's kids when this all went down. Just saying, I do feel for his kids IMO I kind of feel what they may be feeling. My life experience has me confused with all this.

With all due respect, Leah, you might want to try therapy if you haven't done so. Not because your reaction is "crazy", but because you say it has interfered with your ability to trust people.

The truth is EVERYBODY discovers his or her parents are not who they were believed to be. It's called growing up.

 

[Nova]

I'm curious what his children think about all of this? We can all have comments over this, but the people that matter are his kids and what toll it has taken on them. His kids can say it is what he wants, and whatever else they are saying publicly, but is it really what they think?

His "kids" are well into their 20s, no? I'm sorry, but they are NOT what matters. What matters is that BJ be allowed to feel comfortable in his own skin.

 

[Nova]

Hope you do not think I am for expressing my opinion.... mention of doctor's has me thinking of the trust Joan Rivers had in her doctors...

There's a word missing from your post, so I am just guessing. But, no, I don't think you are "unkind". I just think we need to be careful about projecting our feelings about what is necessary and important on those who feel very differently.

 

[katydid23]

His "kids" are well into their 20s, no? I'm sorry, but they are NOT what matters. What matters is that BJ be allowed to feel comfortable in his own skin.

I agree that his feelings are what matters most. But his two youngest girls are still pretty young. I think they are 16 and 18. So that is a bit of an issue for them I am sure.