By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[Rott Mom]

Yeah, a fruit cocktail - LOL!!!

 

[Ambitioned]

Moving the body wasn't practical given their time constraints and I'm betting John nor Patsy had a clue that JBR ate a little pineapple until after the autopsy. So nice that Patsy still has a good friend in "journalist" Paula Woodward who waved her magic wand and turned it into fruit cocktail though.

I'm waiting for someone to come along with water.

Oh, what a world. What a world.

 

[Rott Mom]

That's why I think it was the baseball bat found in the backyard with JB's hair on it.

 

[andreww]

...but why in the world did they go through the trouble of wiping it down (batteries included), only to leave it there in plain sight.

When you say "they" we are probably talking about Patsy. Lack of sleep, and stress, she probably overlooked it.


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[andreww]

I saw a movie in which the older criminal was teaching 'the ropes' to a younger and inexperienced criminal. He instructed the young one to wipe down the flashlight batteries in case he accidentally left the flashlight at the scene.

I am not in the least bit curious as to why they left the flashlight in plain sight. The pineapple was left out and for pity's sake, the body was still in the house.

PR was very inquisitive in her interview when the subject of the 'pen from the house' was brought up. She wanted to know how they could tell it was the same pen. Same with the pineapple, 'how do you know it was fresh pineapple and not canned?', 'show me the proof that she was sexually molested prior to that night. PR was clever, but knew only a little about forensic evidence - enough to drape herself over the body wearing the exact same clothes as the night before, spreading fibers, but not enough to know that the pad and pen could be scientifically matched to those in her kitchen.

As far as whether the murder was accidental or purposeful, I think the evidence is clear that both the head blow and the strangulation were purposeful and intended to cause death.

I don't think the head blow was intended to cause death. In anger, yes, but I don't believe anybody in that family intentionally set out to kill JB that night. I believe it snowballed in to that.


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[andreww]

The plain sight thing has always bugged me too, but assuming it was the flashlight - and the nature of the injury and the lack of prints leads me to believe it was - they had only a few choices.

They could have hidden it in that huge messy house. But they risked LE finding it and connecting it to the head injury. Why would a intruder bother to find a hiding spot in the house for the murder weapon?

They could have tried to dispose of it, but it was a heavy object, and it probably would have been much more difficult to dispose of than some tape or string, especially with the clock ticking that night.

They could have left it where the head strike happened, but this would have potentially left clues they didn't want left behind. And this would have confirmed without question that it was the weapon used.

Without actually hiding it, they could have put it in a kitchen drawer or cabinet. But, assuming the cops figured it was the weapon, why would an intruder bother doing this? (Although he was nice enough to put Patsy's pen and pad neatly away, so maybe this would have worked.)

They may have figured leaving it print-less on the counter was the safest, most neutral option of all. Not hidden, not put away, not randomly tossed where the head strike occurred. If the cops determined it was the murder weapon, it could have just been where the murderer put it down. Or maybe they wouldn't connect it at all. Whatever the reasoning, it worked for the Ramseys.

They were attempting to blame on an intruder. If they had put it back where it belongs and LE connected it to the crime, it looks suspicious. The fact that the Rs never admitted ownership tells you something.


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[TeaTime]

That's why I think it was the baseball bat found in the backyard with JB's hair on it.

It was alleged somewhere that a golf club had a blonde hair on it, not the baseball bat. My understanding is that the word 'baseball bat' was typed in error on a report and later corrected.

I could be wrong.

 

[andreww]

It was alleged somewhere that a golf club had a blonde hair on it, not the baseball bat. My understanding is that the word 'baseball bat' was typed in error on a report and later corrected.

I could be wrong.

The baseball bat had carpet fibres consistent with those in the basement, thats it. My thinking is that a baseball bat would have made a bigger impression in the skull. Also, it would be difficult to swing a bat or golf club in the tight confines of the basement, if that is in fact where she was hit. I personally don't think she was.

Furthermore, I feel that the Ramsey's changing gears on the flashlight by claiming John used it to take Burke to bed, and Burke's non committal response when asked if he used it when he went back downstairs shows that a nerve has been touched. Not once in 20 years has any Ramsey admitted to being anywhere around the flashlight, then after the promos for the CBS special show forensic testing on a flashlight, there is a change in their story.

 

[AmyPond]

I saw a movie in which the older criminal was teaching 'the ropes' to a younger and inexperienced criminal. He instructed the young one to wipe down the flashlight batteries in case he accidentally left the flashlight at the scene.

I am not in the least bit curious as to why they left the flashlight in plain sight. The pineapple was left out and for pity's sake, the body was still in the house.

PR was very inquisitive in her interview when the subject of the 'pen from the house' was brought up. She wanted to know how they could tell it was the same pen. Same with the pineapple, 'how do you know it was fresh pineapple and not canned?', 'show me the proof that she was sexually molested prior to that night. PR was clever, but knew only a little about forensic evidence - enough to drape herself over the body wearing the exact same clothes as the night before, spreading fibers, but not enough to know that the pad and pen could be scientifically matched to those in her kitchen.

As far as whether the murder was accidental or purposeful, I think the evidence is clear that both the head blow and the strangulation were purposeful and intended to cause death.

Which evidence shows the blow to the head was purposeful and intended to cause death? I do agree about the strangulation.

 

[andreww]

Which evidence shows the blow to the head was purposeful and intended to cause death? I do agree about the strangulation.

The sheer force of the blow would suggest it was intentional. Whether it was meant to cause death? Depends on how messed up you believe Burke was.

 

[kanzz]

I saw a movie in which the older criminal was teaching 'the ropes' to a younger and inexperienced criminal. He instructed the young one to wipe down the flashlight batteries in case he accidentally left the flashlight at the scene.

I am not in the least bit curious as to why they left the flashlight in plain sight. The pineapple was left out and for pity's sake, the body was still in the house.

PR was very inquisitive in her interview when the subject of the 'pen from the house' was brought up. She wanted to know how they could tell it was the same pen. Same with the pineapple, 'how do you know it was fresh pineapple and not canned?', 'show me the proof that she was sexually molested prior to that night. PR was clever, but knew only a little about forensic evidence - enough to drape herself over the body wearing the exact same clothes as the night before, spreading fibers, but not enough to know that the pad and pen could be scientifically matched to those in her kitchen.

As far as whether the murder was accidental or purposeful, I think the evidence is clear that both the head blow and the strangulation were purposeful and intended to cause death.

BBM
Agree! :thumb:

 

[AmyPond]

The sheer force of the blow would suggest it was intentional. Whether it was meant to cause death? Depends on how messed up you believe Burke was.

Yes, I definitely agree that whoever delivered the blow, did it with force. But I don't know if there is evidence that can show intent to kill.

 

[UKGuy]

I saw a movie in which the older criminal was teaching 'the ropes' to a younger and inexperienced criminal. He instructed the young one to wipe down the flashlight batteries in case he accidentally left the flashlight at the scene.

I am not in the least bit curious as to why they left the flashlight in plain sight. The pineapple was left out and for pity's sake, the body was still in the house.

PR was very inquisitive in her interview when the subject of the 'pen from the house' was brought up. She wanted to know how they could tell it was the same pen. Same with the pineapple, 'how do you know it was fresh pineapple and not canned?', 'show me the proof that she was sexually molested prior to that night. PR was clever, but knew only a little about forensic evidence - enough to drape herself over the body wearing the exact same clothes as the night before, spreading fibers, but not enough to know that the pad and pen could be scientifically matched to those in her kitchen.

As far as whether the murder was accidental or purposeful, I think the evidence is clear that both the head blow and the strangulation were purposeful and intended to cause death.

TeaTime,
The thing about the flashlight is: did it play a substantial role in JonBenet's death?

Now just using it to see where you are in the dark is not a substantial role, its not much different from flicking a switch, i.e. same result.

Used as a guide in the dark is inconsequential, just as finding an R's prints on it would be, i.e. no smoking gun.

So unless it was used to whack JonBenet it's really not that important, yet we have JR claiming ownership, and not explaining how it went from his or BR's bedroom to downstairs the next morning?

If the case is BDI, maybe the parents never ever knew about the head blow, just the result, maybe BR never told them, maybe it was BR who, saw the same movie you recount, cleaned the flashlight?

If the case is JDI why would JR want to flag himself up as the last known person to use the flashlight?

Unless JR is going to say at some point in the future that he left the flashlight in BR's bedroom, and thereafter BR used it to return back downstairs, and snack pineapple, thus explaining all the evidence?

Of course if the case were JDI or PDI then surely the flashlight would not have been left out in the first place, alike the pineapple, etc?

So who is JR is revising his version of events for?

 

[Miz Adventure]

TeaTime,
The thing about the flashlight is: did it play a substantial role in JonBenet's death?

Now just using it to see where you are in the dark is not a substantial role, its not much different from flicking a switch, i.e. same result.

Used as a guide in the dark is inconsequential, just as finding an R's prints on it would be, i.e. no smoking gun.

So unless it was used to whack JonBenet it's really not that important, yet we have JR claiming ownership, and not explaining how it went from his or BR's bedroom to downstairs the next morning?

If the case is BDI, maybe the parents never ever knew about the head blow, just the result, maybe BR never told them, maybe it was BR who, saw the same movie you recount, cleaned the flashlight?

If the case is JDI why would JR want to flag himself up as the last known person to use the flashlight?

Unless JR is going to say at some point in the future that he left the flashlight in BR's bedroom, and thereafter BR used it to return back downstairs, and snack pineapple, thus explaining all the evidence?

Of course if the case were JDI or PDI then surely the flashlight would not have been left out in the first place, alike the pineapple, etc?

So who is JR is revising his version of events for?

Well the Ram's obviously had a lot on their minds once they found their daughter had been murdered and the pineapple would have no significance to them. They may not have been aware that JBR even ate pineapple and they would not know that pineapple would be found in JBR's small intestine and hence that JBR had been up and about when the R's insisted to the world that she had been in bed.

I think the R's were way over-confident in themselves and the flashlight, pen and that notepad were all left out because they did not think the police were bright enough to connect the dots.

The couple must have thought they were safe leaving these implements out in full view. Patsy had probably forgotten she had made a couple of false starts with the ransom note and didn't dream that the police would even think of taking the pad away, let alone turn the pages to the centre.

 

[Disgusted]

Furthermore, I feel that the Ramsey's changing gears on the flashlight by claiming John used it to take Burke to bed, and Burke's non committal response when asked if he used it when he went back downstairs shows that a nerve has been touched. Not once in 20 years has any Ramsey admitted to being anywhere around the flashlight, then after the promos for the CBS special show forensic testing on a flashlight, there is a change in their story.

So glad to see someone finally note that.

Here's my theory and humble opinion on how that played out:

Someone at CBS or with some very limited access to the production of the show, likely leaked to ramsey lawyers what info they knew. It was probably along the lines of the show knowing something huge about the flashlight and who was downstairs later that night. This leak probably thought the show had a smoking gun on those topics and possibly thought new tests were conducted on that flashlight. My guess is that the leaker saw images or footage of the flashlight being lab-tested, and team R was sure that DNA or prints had been recovered.

The R's were then likely advised to get ahead of this new information by "innocently" placing the flashlight in both their hands and Burke downstairs later that night. The goal was to get this information out from their own mouths to as wide an audience as possible. Then when the smoking gun they thought was coming out hits, they already made their alibi and made it before the smoking gun was released. In their minds, a masterful chess move.

However, no smoking gun was revealed.

Imagine if their legal team was watching the show, and as soon as they realized they didn't need to admit the flashlight and downstairs information... Imagine the rage.

Why, it would almost be enough to drive one of their attorneys onto Twitter shortly after the show aired screaming in rage that there was no new investigation. Angry not that the show said what it did, but that the show manipulated them into making admissions that they didn't need to.

All just theory and my opinion of course. But when it all played out, that's how it appeared to me.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://ew.com/movies/2017/01/04/netflix-jonbenet-ramsey-documentary-casting-jonbenet/


JonBenét Ramsey documentary acquired by Netflix

January 4, 2017

"Netflix has acquired worldwide rights to Casting JonBenét, a documentary about the notorious JonBenét Ramsey murder case, the streaming company announced Wednesday."

 

[debbiegarcia36]

http://ew.com/movies/2017/01/04/netflix-jonbenet-ramsey-documentary-casting-jonbenet/


JonBenét Ramsey documentary acquired by Netflix

January 4, 2017

"Netflix has acquired worldwide rights to Casting JonBenét, a documentary about the notorious JonBenét Ramsey murder case, the streaming company announced Wednesday."

Yikes, I wonder what JR and LW have to say about this one.

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[TeaTime]

Disgusted - great theory.

That JR used the flashlight to take BR upstairs is further evidence that there was no intruder but it was DP that said it. He is a doofus. If JR did use it this way, it doesn't matter if he left the flashlight in BR's room or took it upstairs to his room they are stuck with an intruder who went into one of those bedrooms, as they slept, to get the flashlight to go back and kill JBR with it which is preposterous. If JR really did do this, it is as close to a confession as we will ever get.

Although BR didn't deny that JR used the flashlight to take him to bed, he didn't say "yes, he did" either.

 

[andreww]

So glad to see someone finally note that.

Here's my theory and humble opinion on how that played out:

Someone at CBS or with some very limited access to the production of the show, likely leaked to ramsey lawyers what info they knew. It was probably along the lines of the show knowing something huge about the flashlight and who was downstairs later that night. This leak probably thought the show had a smoking gun on those topics and possibly thought new tests were conducted on that flashlight. My guess is that the leaker saw images or footage of the flashlight being lab-tested, and team R was sure that DNA or prints had been recovered.

The R's were then likely advised to get ahead of this new information by "innocently" placing the flashlight in both their hands and Burke downstairs later that night. The goal was to get this information out from their own mouths to as wide an audience as possible. Then when the smoking gun they thought was coming out hits, they already made their alibi and made it before the smoking gun was released. In their minds, a masterful chess move.

However, no smoking gun was revealed.

Imagine if their legal team was watching the show, and as soon as they realized they didn't need to admit the flashlight and downstairs information... Imagine the rage.

Why, it would almost be enough to drive one of their attorneys onto Twitter shortly after the show aired screaming in rage that there was no new investigation. Angry not that the show said what it did, but that the show manipulated them into making admissions that they didn't need to.

All just theory and my opinion of course. But when it all played out, that's how it appeared to me.

My thoughts exactly.


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[andreww]

Well the Ram's obviously had a lot on their minds once they found their daughter had been murdered and the pineapple would have no significance to them. They may not have been aware that JBR even ate pineapple and they would not know that pineapple would be found in JBR's small intestine and hence that JBR had been up and about when the R's insisted to the world that she had been in bed.

I think the R's were way over-confident in themselves and the flashlight, pen and that notepad were all left out because they did not think the police were bright enough to connect the dots.

The couple must have thought they were safe leaving these implements out in full view. Patsy had probably forgotten she had made a couple of false starts with the ransom note and didn't dream that the police would even think of taking the pad away, let alone turn the pages to the centre.

They put the pad and pen away, only the flashlight was out in the open. The pad was out in one of the Christmas morning photos though. So whoever wrote the note knew where it belonged and put it there as JR knew where to find it when he gave it to LE.


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