CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #1

[fruity]

The oldest boy looks like - in my opinion - he has a profound intellectual and/or mental disability. Don’t ask what it looks like. Just my thoughts.


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Mental and intellectual disabilities can’t be diagnosed on looks, and especially not based on photos. You are speculating about an abused victim here.

 

[gitana1]

bbm
CPS needs a warrent to remove, true, but it's easy for them to get regardless of any evidence. They can go before a judge, ex parte hearing, lie and have the kids before the end of the day. I have seen this at least a half a dozen times when I worked as a court advocate...

Of course the parents can go to the 72 hour hearing with proof that the claims were unfounded, but by then it's too late, because CPS will just claim, "well now we have "other concerns". (They had time to interogate the kids and it's amazing what they can come up with!).

I had to quit volunteering as an advocate because it's absolutely disgusting, what goes on, but no way to expose. (Total immunity and all that).

So yeah, they could have got the the kids in this case, but probably wouldn't have taken them. jmo.

Wow. In all my years in the business I have never heard of them falsifying records. Exaggerating, yes. The issues I tend to see are that these tend to be overworked and often not that educated workers, who often allow abuse and neglect to slip through the cracks, or who form opinions based on personal feelings, likes or dislikes, and then harass the parent they don't like as a result. Neither of which are good.

But yeah, they certainly could lie to get the kids out of there. Just as LE could lie as well about probable cause.

The bright white heels....it's like they gave them to them in the parking lot and said here, wear these, even though you've never walked in heels a day of your life. It is so incredibly bizarre. The kids look drugged to me. Dazed...confused....the laughter at Elvis seems forced...I could go on and on. These poor kids.

I only watched part of the video but the children can't click their fingers. That was one of the physical development checks at the pediatrician when my children were small, as well as skipping... They don't appear to have ever danced or had fun. They look to their mother for permission to do what Elvis is asking them to do. Only then do they appear to be having fun and trying to follow what Elvis is demonstrating. I see nothing but red flags here. It's as though they haven't been exposed to anything. And the girls can't walk in their shoes.

They do not appear to be well nourished. Sometimes one or two may appear that way in a family (I was always extremely thin), but certainly not all 12 or 13 children. I'll bet they're all Vitamin D deficient, along with other deficiencies.

I sincerely hope that the children are given intensive counseling and support. They are so far behind socially and I imagine psychologically.

I'm telling you, every bit of it is pathology. They have zero rhythm. Like they're not used to moving around. They are incredibly awkward. They seem physically delayed, like you said, in their ability to snap their fingers, keep a beat even - like they've not had the practice using gross or fine motor skills as children (or adults) should. I mean I get it that not everyone is that coordinated nor has rhythm but this seems like more than that.

The little girl dresses with high heeled shoes. The long, uniform hair. The fixation on Elvis. The high pitched voices and childlike appearances of the adults kids. What does it all mean?

I see some similar things with a couple other mega families mentioned on here and it always makes me feel slightly uneasy. Like it;s a sign of something...wrong.

I know in books I have read, like Munchausen cases or other weird murders, there has been mention in the books about the person's odd appearance or mannerisms. Like it goes with psychological dsitrubance in some way.

I wish I knew more about psychology. I did found something about Schizotypal (SP?) people and appearance. But does anyone know more? is there a connection and if so, why? What does it mean?

Schizotypal personality disorder is a pattern of social and interpersonal difficulties that includes a sense of discomfort with close relationships, eccentric behavior, and unusual thoughts and perceptions of reality. Speech may include digressions, odd use of words or display "magical thinking," such as a belief in clairvoyance and bizarre fantasies. Patients usually experience distorted thinking, behave strangely, and avoid intimacy. They typically have few, if any, close friends, and feel nervous around strangers although they may marry and maintain jobs. The disorder, which may appear more frequently in males, surfaces by early adulthood and can exacerbate anxiety and depression.

People with this disorder may be severely disturbed and might appear schizophrenic. More commonly, however, patient beliefs (aliens, witchcraft, possessing a "sixth sense") are stranger than their behavior, and may often keep them isolated from normal relationships. Hallucinations, however, are not a common symptom. Other symptoms include:

• Discomfort in social situations
• Odd beliefs, fantasies or preoccupations
• Odd behavior or appearance
• Odd speech
• Difficulty making/keeping friendships
• Inappropriate display of feelings
• Suspiciousness or paranoia

https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/schizotypal-personality-disorder

I;m not attempting to diagnose here. Just exploring a bit the possible connection between odd appearance and behavior with mental illness. I am trying to understand.

You are correct that it's not mandatory. I have never met a family in my life, homeschooling or not, that did not take their child to a dr. or have their children involved in extra curricular activities or friendships. (Other than abusive ones I've come across though working with children.) If kids fall through the cracks at school, which they DO all the time, I don't know how forcing regulation is the answer. Regulation also fails kids constantly. I just don't think there is a way for the government to prevent this. It takes involvement of people in society to see things that are amiss. But when people are on the fringes of society, they can easily hide.

The answers are not easy, whatever they are.

Well we see families on here quite a bit who fail to keep take their kids to doctors, and keep them isolated from others.

And yes, kids who attend public schools slip through the cracks regularly, like little Gabriel Fernandez, who was tortured to death.

But again, the homeschooling movement and popularity have given dysfunctional people an easy way to hide their abuse or neglect where in the past, despite the fact that kids can and do slip through the cracks, there was more of an opportunity for monitoring, and more safeguards for kids who attended a brick and mortar school.

Regulation fails kids. But it also saves many.

It's just we have certain constitutional protections in this country and the general national attitude views child rearing as a very personal thing that the government should stay out of.

So I agree that more regulation probably isn't the answer.

More community involvement with each other may be though. And people should not make assumptions about the health of one another's families based on religious or other beliefs. I note the grandmother here stated that the family was "respectable" and religious. i think sometimes if people view others as religious they feel they can't do anything harmful or have problems they need help with. They're "blessed".

We need to be observant when it comes to family, friends and neighbors and if something feels off, ask questions. Dig a little. Offer an ear or assistance if anyone might seem in need.

Isolation is often dangerous.

 

[Hatfield]

I thought they bought the house after they filed for bankruptcy, though. Going to go back and read--I might have read that wrong somewhere. But I had the same question.

You could be right. I do recall in my friends case that I think he had to wait about 10 years after the bankrupcy and then certain things cleared up where some things went back to normal for him.

It would be kind of strange I would think to be able to buy another home so quick after a bankrupcy unless maybe financials changed for the person.

 

[Hippononymous]

What does this have to do with trump? The California homeschool laws are governed by California. Not trump. We can blame trump for a bunch of crap, but not this.


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Each state has different homeschooling laws. Here what Californians need to do. It looks like this family chose option 1.

http://www.californiahomeschool.net/how-to-homeschool/legal-options/

Not every state has to create a "school" like this.

 

[Lucyray]

Lol.. with Trump as the ring leader how could anyone expect anything but a circus? [emoji23]

Why make this political? Smh


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[Jackeee]

Facebook page has gone. Photos disappeared one by one as I was looking at them. Poof.

 

[keeleydoll]

A wellness check doesn't permit them to enter the home. They arrive ask if everyone is okm then leave. That's it. Easy to lie.

A wellness check from police you’re right, not CPS or APS. They really can demand to see the children. However, as shown by the Aleman case, parents can cover up pretty much anything and if they are reported by someone they just move somewhere else.


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[bears10]

You could be right. I do recall in my friends case that I think he had to wait about 10 years after the bankrupcy and then certain things cleared up where some things went back to normal for him.

It would be kind of strange I would think to be able to buy another home so quick after a bankrupcy unless maybe financials changed for the person.

For my sister it was 7 years before the bankruptcy was “off her record”. The few years following her bankruptcy were very hard for her. She (understandably) was being offered a ton of low limit credit cards with insane interest rates. She slowly built her credit back up by obtaining one of said cards and paying her balance in full every month, and shredding all of the other offers she’d get in the mail. She didn’t own a home at the time, and still does not, but I can’t imagine her getting approved for a mortgage unless it came with an incredibly high interest rate. I can’t imagine how the turpins were able to get approved for a mortgage after two bankruptcies. I am really curious if the dad worked after he left his engineering job. I also wonder if he comes from a financially “comfortable” family JMO


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[human]

Wow. In all my years in the business I have never heard of them falsifying records. Exaggerating, yes. The issues I tend to see are that these tend to be overworked and often not that educated workers, who often allow abuse and neglect to slip through the cracks, or who form opinions based on personal feelings, likes or dislikes, and then harass the parent they don't like as a result. Neither of which are good.

But yeah, they certainly could lie to get the kids out of there. Just as LE could lie as well about probable cause.






I'm telling you, every bit of it is pathology. They have zero rhythm. Like they're not used to moving around. They are incredibly awkward. They seem physically delayed, like you said, in their ability to snap their fingers, keep a beat even - like they've not had the practice using gross or fine motor skills as children (or adults) should. I mean I get it that not everyone is that coordinated nor has rhythm but this seems like more than that.

The little girl dresses with high heeled shoes. The long, uniform hair. The fixation on Elvis. The high pitched voices and childlike appearances of the adults kids. What does it all mean?

I see some similar things with a couple other mega families mentioned on here and it always makes me feel slightly uneasy. Like it;s a sign of something...wrong.

I know in books I have read, like Munchausen cases or other weird murders, there has been mention in the books about the person's odd appearance or mannerisms. Like it goes with psychological dsitrubance in some way.

I wish I knew more about psychology. I did found something about Schizotypal (SP?) people and appearance. But does anyone know more? is there a connection and if so, why? What does it mean?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/schizotypal-personality-disorder

I;m not attempting to diagnose here. Just exploring a bit the possible connection between odd appearance and behavior with mental illness. I am trying to understand.



Well we see families on here quite a bit who fail to keep take their kids to doctors, and keep them isolated from others.

And yes, kids who attend public schools slip through the cracks regularly, like little Gabriel Fernandez, who was tortured to death.

But again, the homeschooling movement and popularity have given dysfunctional people an easy way to hide their abuse or neglect where in the past, despite the fact that kids can and do slip through the cracks, there was more of an opportunity for monitoring, and more safeguards for kids who attended a brick and mortar school.

Regulation fails kids. But it also saves many.

It's just we have certain constitutional protections in this country and the general national attitude views child rearing as a very personal thing that the government should stay out of.

So I agree that more regulation probably isn't the answer.

More community involvement with each other may be though. And people should not make assumptions about the health of one another's families based on religious or other beliefs. I note the grandmother here stated that the family was "respectable" and religious. i think sometimes if people view others as religious they feel they can't do anything harmful or have problems they need help with. They're "blessed".

We need to be observant when it comes to family, friends and neighbors and if something feels off, ask questions. Dig a little. Offer an ear or assistance if anyone might seem in need.

Isolation is often dangerous.

People care more about animals. The first child abuse society was made by a group that was into protecting animals.

Children are still seen as possessions. They don’t vote so they do not have much of a voice.

Maybe after women gain equality, children can be next

 

[Confusion]

I've been having a terrible time trying to get caught up , so I apologize if my questions have already been answered. On the bankruptcy forms, it says that in 2011 they had 11 dependents between the ages of 4 and 19. It also says that 4 of them are sons.
What I'm wondering is:
Did they have the wrong ages, either then or now, or were there also older children in the home who weren't considered to be dependents?

What happened to the 4th son? Was a girl mistakenly listed as a boy or was there another son no longer in the home?

I know one of the children not on the form is the 2 year old, but was there another born between the 11 year old and the 2 year old, or was there actually another one (or more) who is older?

Thanks to anyone with the knowledge and patience to answer.

 

[bears10]

Each state has different homeschooling laws. Here what Californians need to do. It looks like this family chose option 1.

http://www.californiahomeschool.net/how-to-homeschool/legal-options/

Not every state has to create a "school" like this.

Right. That’s why I don’t get why trump was even brought up. It’s a state thing, not federal. It’s concerning that many people aren’t aware of the difference.


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[Betty P]

What does this have to do with trump? The California homeschool laws are governed by California. Not trump. We can blame trump for a bunch of crap, but not this.


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As weak as they may seem, California regulations for home schooling are far better than in many states. Some have no regulations at all. No requirements that parents be eligible to teach, no reporting on curriculum or amount of time taught, no educational testing, no inspections, nothing.

Here's a recent article in the St Louis PD about the problems with the system in IL and MO

Starved, beaten and forgotten: Child deaths in Missouri and Illinois expose how predators exploit home school system

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_3f74532e-2912-50a2-a2da-6415e33c3945.html

Parents in Missouri, Illinois and nine other states are not required even to notify their local school district if they are home-schooling their children.

Many states don’t keep records, but estimates from the National Center of Education Statistics, show that about 1.7 million children, or 3.3 percent of all school-aged children, were being home-schooled in the 2015-2016 school year.

It’s voluntary, but many Illinois families fill out home-school registration forms to stop public schools from counting their kids as chronically absent and avoid visits from truancy officers, said Michelle Mueller, a former principal who is now regional superintendent of the Regional Office of Education District 40, serving Calhoun, Green, Jersey and Macoupin counties.

“As a principal,” Mueller recalled, “it scared me to death when a family would elect to home-school, because in a district (school), there is follow-up … and when you turn them loose to home schooling, your hands are tied.”

The Robertses registered as home-schooling parents with Mueller’s office after social workers investigated the lack of food in their home.

Illinois law classifies home schools as private schools. There are no requirements for bookkeeping, testing, instruction time or parent qualification.


In Missouri, home-schooling parents are to provide 1,000 hours of instruction every school year. Students’ academic records may only be inspected as part of a legal investigation.

Some states, such as New York and Pennsylvania, require academic assessments. Those laws help ensure children are seen outside the home, but they’re not impervious, Coleman said.

The argument for home-school regulations may have gained an ally in Jersey County Prosecutor Benjamin Goetten, who charged Liam’s parents with his murder.

“Do I think if these children were in school they would have gotten to this level? No, I don’t,” he said. “It’s come as a shock to learn that there are no rules when it comes to home schooling.

“The loss of one child’s life is worth the minimal regulations that the Legislature could put in place to monitor home schooling,” Goetten said.

 

[fruity]

I'm telling you, every bit of it is pathology. They have zero rhythm. Like they're not used to moving around. They are incredibly awkward. They seem physically delayed, like you said, in their ability to snap their fingers, keep a beat even - like they've not had the practice using gross or fine motor skills as children (or adults) should. I mean I get it that not everyone is that coordinated nor has rhythm but this seems like more than that.

The little girl dresses with high heeled shoes. The long, uniform hair. The fixation on Elvis. The high pitched voices and childlike appearances of the adults kids. What does it all mean?

.

RSBM

Something else of note, IMO, is their elocution. I couldn’t understand a few of the brief things they said when Elvis pointed the microphone at them, and the younger girls’ pronunciation of ‘hound dog’ was unclear. I couldn’t understand one of the middle girls’ names either.

The high pitched voice seems to be a fundamental Christian girl thing. The Rodrigues children and Michelle Duggar also use it.

I totally agree with you - isolation can indeed be dangerous.

 

[Doghairrules]

I noticed all of that too. None of their voices sounded quite right. I realize people have different pitches but each voice sounded younger than it should coming from the children I saw (who each were most likely a lot older than they appear). Terrifying to think of what these kids went through. Those videos were downright painful to watch.

Especially the first of the older three girls who spoke. If I had been listening and not watching, I would have guessed a 5 year old was speaking.

 

[bestill]

Facebook page has gone. Photos disappeared one by one as I was looking at them. Poof.

Lawyered up?

 

[Doghairrules]

A wellness check doesn't permit them to enter the home. They arrive ask if everyone is okm then leave. That's it. Easy to lie.

But if the front door was opened to them and they smelled some of the foul smell they described when they found the children, would that have been enough to warrant further action? Could they have insisted on seeing all of the kids?

 

[Doghairrules]

I was thinking the same. My daughter, nieces and nephews range from 3rd grade to 25. There are jobs, sports, graduations, boyfriends, girlfriends. So weird.

I would definitely wonder and worry about any of my 11 nieces and nephews if they were 29 and still lived at home with no job.

 

[avondale14]

I find it very strange that they didn't have any children in the first 4 years of marriage. Or at least none that we the public know about.

This is my first time posting and it should have been a reply to someone, so sorry if it seems a bit random.

Ill try and edit:see below

 

[avondale14]

I've been having a terrible time trying to get caught up , so I apologize if my questions have already been answered. On the bankruptcy forms, it says that in 2011 they had 11 dependents between the ages of 4 and 19. It also says that 4 of them are sons.
What I'm wondering is:
Did they have the wrong ages, either then or now, or were there also older children in the home who weren't considered to be dependents?

What happened to the 4th son? Was a girl mistakenly listed as a boy or was there another son no longer in the home?

I know one of the children not on the form is the 2 year old, but was there another born between the 11 year old and the 2 year old, or was there actually another one (or more) who is older?

Thanks to anyone with the knowledge and patience to answer.

I find it very strange that they didn't have any children in the first 4 years of marriage. Or at least none that we the public know about.

Further edit: i suppose though thinking about it, that would have been picked up on by the extended family, references to 12 and a new baby on the way etc.

 

[bears10]

As weak as they may seem, California regulations for home schooling are far better than in many states. Some have no regulations at all. No requirements that parents be eligible to teach, no reporting on curriculum or amount of time taught, no educational testing, no inspections, nothing.

Here's a recent article in the St Louis PD about the problems with the system in IL and MO

Starved, beaten and forgotten: Child deaths in Missouri and Illinois expose how predators exploit home school system

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_3f74532e-2912-50a2-a2da-6415e33c3945.html

Oh I didn’t mean to criticize California’s homeschool laws. I was just saying that it’s a state issue, not federal. I would expect CA to have better regulations than a state with a high rural population for instance. I do not know much about homeschooling, as it is not common in my region for various reasons.

I just can’t help but wonder how many cases there are like this one (or similar) that no one knows about because the children are so isolated. Someone upthread mentioned that majority (95%) of homeschooling parents are good parents and not abusive (paraphrasing). But how can we really ever know? Look how the Turpin children slipped thru the cracks. And in a residential neighborhood in CA. I imagine it’s a lot easier to conceal abuse while saying you homeschool your kids when you live in a rural area.


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