CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #4

[x_files]

Yup. I thought I heard a cat crying once, and it turned out to be an infant (who was fine). I always investigate cries of any kind.

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exactly!!! I heard an infant muffled could sound like a kitten or animal so always wise to thoroughly investigate.

 

[margarita25]

I wonder what conversations they had amongst each other while in confinement??

Again, my eyes are wide open around me now. Maybe somehow this horrific situation will help others to be rescued somehow, with people being more aware...yes, with all this publicity, I have to think it wI'll make someone stop and look twice...

 

[DakotaMayi]

so they managed to free 2 children but the third was still chained by the time the police gained entry. so did they force their way in,orwas the door answered?

I imagine that there were given so much time to answer and when they didn't, as they were unshackling the other two, they forced their way in before the third could be freed. That's just how I imagine it though, I don't know for a fact.

 

[x_files]

JMO
In general I think a lot of people have a real fear of calling authorities for anything. Its a real fear they end up having either from past experiences of their own or a developed fear over time from watching the news or other things.

Sometimes the fear is irrational but sometimes it is a valid fear that people develop over time about authorities and LE in general. A small example I can give of how a fear can get created over time is many years ago my wife was pulled over for alleged speeding and the officer treated her like she was a bank robber or something. According to her the officer became very irrational and mean and started yelling at her to obey his commands even as she was trying to do exactly what he was asking. One part of the incident he asked her for her license and registration and as she responded with "i have to get it from glove box" he thought she was arguing with him and became very verbally aggressive with her. To this day she now has a real fear of any LE officer and she goes to great lengths to avoid them at all cost. This is just a small example of how people can begin to develop a real fear of authorities. Whether it is rational or irrational there is no doubt she now has a real fear of them.

Of course in this case people obviously should have overcame any fear they had of authorities and made a call to have someone do a welfare check of the animals and children. There were signs that things were amiss.
The situation was important enough where people needed to overcome any apprehension they may have and go ahead and make the call to authorities.

It is very sad that these children were not helped sooner than now. Im just glad they have been found now and are now saved from what they were going through.

Makes sense. This another abuse of power. If the LE want cooperation they need to treat people with decency.

 

[margarita25]

What I read was the statement made by their former neighbor, who, as a kid, snooped around the outside of the house after the family had abandoned it. She said that there were 2 DEAD DOGS in the dumpster, and a LIVE KITTEN, that she took home and kept. Also, when she opened the back door,two starving dogs met her at the door. She said that they had apparently been eating soiled diapers. She never said anything about rescuing the dogs, so they probably died of starvation inside the house.........JMO

So this is 5 cases of animal abuse then, 4 dogs and one cat? Or 2 cats?

 

[margarita25]

Hate to admit this, but some of us here have lived this. and parts of this story bring back old memories that we long ago buried. Lots of similarities.

And you guys are rock stars for being here!!

 

[ClaireNC]

I've posted a rudimentary timeline on the Media and Timeline thread for this case. Not perfect, but helped me tie in the media info with data from the Bankruptcy filing and the estimates of when each of the survivors was born (thank you to the sleuthers who worked on that!). Will try and go back and improve the citations, but have to go run errands first.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...se-Case-NO-DISCUSSION&p=13878471#post13878471

Excellent timeline! Thanks so much for creating it.

I've been thinking about this part for a few days now:

1992 -1999 lived in Ft Worth (https://www.yahoo.com/news/turpin-fa...093146516.html)
· The alleged abuse and neglect began when the family lived in the Fort Worth area, "with the parents at one point living apart from most of the children and dropping off food from time to time," said Michael Hestrin, district attorney for Riverside County. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...uthorities-say
· 1999 moved to farm in Rio Vista - Rt 1 box 154-R, Rio Vista, TX
(snipped for focus)
· Authorities, though, said that the children were starved and abused since at least 2010.

So the abuse goes back to the mid 1990's. ( those poor children).
Do we know if the parents were living apart and delivering food while in Ft. Worth? Or was that maybe in Rio Vista, when they had the mobile home moved onto the property?

There also seems to be some confusion about the statement that the abuse goes back to 2010. Some sources have reported it began in 2010, which is wrong. It goes back much further. The current cases and charges are only for those committed in Riverside county CA. The authorities' comments have been misunderstood. I wonder if we'll see charges filed in Texas as well.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Looking at the case so far, the surface is just being scratched. I suspect the abuse had been going on before 2010.

I saw 20/20 about David and Louise Turpin. I think they could be injustice collectors.

Injustice Collectors
http://www.psybersquare.com/family/family_injustice.html

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors:
1.) Injustice Collectors are convinced that they are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It is simple: They are always right.

2.) Injustice Collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3.) Injustice Collectors truly believe that they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others chronically do not hold themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4.) Injustice Collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combined legislator, police, and judge and jury of

5.) Injustice Collectors never worry about what is wrong with themselves as their "bad list" grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6.) Injustice Collectors are never upset by the disparity of their rules for others with their own expectations of themselves.

7.) Injustice Collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

David and Louise Turpin show all seven characteristics.

Here are more with 20 characteristics
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/25/are-they-injustice-collector

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors

1. Injustice collectors are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It's simple: They are always right.

2. Injustice collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3. Injustice collectors truly believe they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others seem incapable of holding themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4. Injustice collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combination of legislator, police, judge and jury to those they consider their subjects. They forever banish from their kingdom any subject they deem disloyal, and only grant clemency if there is sufficient (in their eyes) contrition.

5. Injustice collectors never worry about what is wrong with them as their "bad" list grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6. Injustice collectors are never troubled by the disparity between their rules for others and their own expectations of themselves. Injustice collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

7. Injustice collectors have an external orientation; the problem always exists in the world, outside of themselves, and in their view, the world would be an acceptable place if their rules and standards were followed at all times.

8. Injustice collectors do not have a capacity for remorse, empathy or guilt.

9. Injustice collectors scoff at the idea of therapy, therapists, self-help books, and other tools used by people who struggle to live with them.

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

11. The IC (injustice Collector) will prey upon your weaknesses to frame all issues in their terms.

12. IC's will always cry foul when you are 'mean' to them and accuse you of being nasty when you are confronting them with their negative behavior.

13. They are titanically insecure and cannot trust anyone. All relationships they have, even with their own parents and children and trustless and must be reinforced by subordination over and over.

14. They can only strengthen relationships through imprisoning their mates and banning behaviors and other relationships. Friends and family are a huge threat to the IC.

15. They must repetitively revisit situations where you service them, give in to them and agree with them. They will over time shrink your world to a small plot of empty activities that only they like. They are terrified of travel, meeting new people, understanding new concepts and paroling you from any punishment they have previously 'convicted' you of.

16. They do not care about you at all, they care about aggrandizing themselves with you as an assistant producer.

17. They will occasionally do something for you, but if you are not completely brainwashed, it will be a negative experience for you in the end. Example is throwing you a birthday party. I guarantee you will not have fun at your own party.

18. They will force you to choose between them and other things you like or love. The more you choose them, the more they will make you choose them over and over. They do not understand the concept of loyalty at all.

19. Hypocrisy is their modus operandi for debating and arguing with you. Everything they say about you is true about them. (aka Projection) It makes it so you try to 'win' fights by getting them to agree with you, which they never can because their whole position is false.

20. Your life will disappear into their lives. Your hopes and dreams will fade, even in your own mind. You will eat what they want, you will watch what they want on TV, you will vacation where they want, or not at all.

David and Louise Turpin show all twenty characteristics.

Injustice collectors are often very controlling as they are paranoid. They are prone to extreme anger and in some cases extreme violence.

Injustice collectors are usually seen in mass killers and terrorists like Stephen Paddock, Devin Kelley, Omar Mateen, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Elliot Rodger, and Osama bin Laden. There are many abusers who are considered injustice collectors like Gertrude Baniszewski, Lori Drew, Eliza Baker, Kayla Narey, and Theresa Knorr.

This what I think. I am sure we will hear more about them.

I wonder if these two IC's will turn on each other?

if they haven't already?:thinking:

 

[Jax49]

What I read was the statement made by their former neighbor, who, as a kid, snooped around the outside of the house after the family had abandoned it. She said that there were 2 DEAD DOGS in the dumpster, and a LIVE KITTEN, that she took home and kept. Also, when she opened the back door,two starving dogs met her at the door. She said that they had apparently been eating soiled diapers. She never said anything about rescuing the dogs, so they probably died of starvation inside the house.........JMO

BBM

Just my opinion but once that door was open those dogs were out of there.

 

[Hoosgirl]

This CBS news report states that while people have been calling from all over the world offering to adopt the children, they have received NOT ONE call from extended family.

Also notes that the children may be moved to foster homes in a week or two, and that it is not one home but two - one for the adult children, one for the younger.

Note this is the video that gives this info, which is different from what is written in the accompanying article. Fb video is also longer than the one posted with article.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155489552533655&id=108679513654

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[WestieMom]

Rosesfromangels, that is a very interesting question...

I don't know anyone who ever worked with a company that did work for the Federal government, so I don't know what is involved in getting clearance. But you would think that at some point, it would involve someone paying a visit to the house and talking with the spouse at the very least. I mean, I guess it would really depend on what level his clearance had to be, but I know that General Dynamics and Northrup both build military aircraft. If you're working at a company that is anyway involved in defense contracts, you would think there would be very detailed background checks. And it seems like I read somewhere that they do even talk with family members. What the heck happened there??

I'd have to look at the timeline again, but is it possible THIS is why he and Mommy Dearest were living somewhere else separate from the kids at one point? Maybe it wasn't the trailer. Maybe they had another house or apartment somewhere that looked more "normal" so he could pass background checks? I know this is a lot of speculation and theorizing, but it would kind of make sense. If so, these creeps somehow managed to fool the government too?

Exactly my thoughts.


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[DakotaMayi]

While the children's identities are being protected I say we go with Lilibet's suggestion.

Survivor 1, Survivor 2, Survivor 3, and so on.

There are members who have a billion tons more talent than I do when it comes to using computers and creating pictures.

What about if one of these talented posters took one of the pictures where the faces are not shown, and assign their names. I hope I am making sense. Perhaps go clockwise around the picture.

OR, if we know their ages maybe that is the way to go.

Survivor 1 is two years old, Survivor 2 is seven years old. and so on.

It's up to you all. If someone could put this together I would really appreciate it. My eyeballs feel like they are made of razor blades and are spinning backward in my skull. It's been a hard day so any help one of your talented members could offer will be greatly appreciated by yours truly.

Hopefully, this will settle this discussion and we can move on.

Thank you Lilibet. Great idea.

Ok guys, so, I made this up. Photo of all of the survivors with their ages.

(ETA: Does anyone else get "404 - image not found"? - I do. If so, just click the thumbnail. Does anyone know how I can resolve this issue?)

 

[cady]

bbm

just my opinion but once that door was open those dogs were out of there.

hope so!!!!!

 

[margarita25]

Even though the youngest child wasn't considered abused and the parents weren't charged with that count does CPS still have the same authority that they do with the other siblings? Hope there's no loophole there.

I would think so, Bestill...

 

[bestill]

I'm thinking about the joys of newly discovered beautiful things these survivors will now get to experience, the basic things in life, dignity, feeling clean, tasting foods they've never eaten...

Just the freedom to get out of the bed with clean linens, walk to the sink to brush your teeth and wash your face and hands is a joy. Makes me happy to visualize where they are now vs where monster man and monsterwoman are.

 

[margarita25]

I'm an adoptive mom to a sibling group from foster care, so I have a few thoughts about the process of placing these children.
First, they can be placed with a foster family while still in the hospital. The foster family then acts as a parent visiting the children, taking care of day to day tasks like any parent of a child in the hospital. I'm not surprised they want to identify a foster family fairly quickly. The case workers just don't have the time to sit with hospitalized children the way a family would.
High profile cases like this often bring out offers to help from a lot of tender- hearted people. "I'll just take them all and love on them" is a pretty common thought. Most of these people have not completed home studies, and the training necessary to be foster families and it would take months to get them certified. If they have identified a family willing to take them, that family already has some training and has been background checked.
Keeping the children together will be very complex. Most states limit the number of children who can share a bedroom, and require a specific amount of square footage per child. The adults may be placed with guardians if they are not mentally able to care for themselves. The process to become a guardian for a dependent adult is a little different then fostering children. I suppose the family could agree to do both. It is likely that exceptions can be made to the limits on the number of children in a home for the purpose of keeping siblings together. In our state, we call that an "over-fill." Keeping siblings together would be a reason for that to be approved.
The real question becomes, "How to care for a sibling group of 13?" I adopted a sibling group of 3. I adore my children, and would do it again without question. However, it was HARD. The first few years were utterly overwhelming. The relationships between the children remain complex to this day. I can't imagine 13. Sometimes, after the initial shock wears off, it becomes apparently that the relationships between the children aren't healthy and supportive. Unwritten family rules and trauma bonds can keep some siblings in emotional bondage. Older siblings sometimes have taken the role of parent and have a difficult time letting go of that position.
I am a huge advocate of keeping siblings together. It is usually the best approach. Sometimes though, at least for a time, it is better to place them in separate homes and make sibling visits a priority. I hope they can stay together, but it is going to be a huge, life long challenge for any family that tries to do this.

Thank you for this awesome and informative post!!

This is such a great board here, WS. The people's own stories and contributions...so grateful for these discussions, as hard as they can be.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Regarding everyone's concern over the possibility of them being moved to a possible adoptive home I believe that if it is an experienced, well qualified foster home that is truly wanting to adopt this would be a much better environment for these siblings than an sort of a group home. I worked for CPS for 6 years and no group home, no matter how wonderful the staff, is still a group home with people who are being paid to care for the siblings and could quit or leave at anytime. Not to mention the instability and inconsistency that comes with having multiple caregivers. These siblings need a loving nurturing home with adults who will stick by them no matter what and who will teach them the skills they need to be successful and that only comes in an actual home not a group one. I believe that the right family with support from a team of therapist and healthcare professionals could be more successful in helping these kids heal.

I would agree with you if it were not for the sheer size of this group and the complex physical, emotional, psychological and educational support they are going to need. Here in the UK, foster parents and adoptive parents with the skills and experience to take on seriously damaged children and young adults with such complex needs take on one, or at most two, such charges at a time. I really doubt a couple of people could take on this group without there being many other care and support staff involved anyway.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Could someone please point me in the direction of the media thread? I just cannot locate it at all?

:tyou:

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I hear you and I'm sure they're trying to make good decisions, but my main point is that they need more than 2 adults caring for them right now.

No matter how well educated and experienced the person(s) taking them in are, they have to sleep sometime.

Perhaps they'll hire home health aides for 24/7 coverage. I have no doubt there are many well trained home health aides who would really enjoy caring for and teaching these children. And then they could have specialized professionals for things like occupational and speech therapy.

I tend to be pessimistic and cynical, but I do have real hope for these kids that they will eventually be able to live happy lives even though they'll have some lifelong challenges related to their malnutrition and lack of movement.

Does this situation remind anyone else of the movie "Nell"? Can you imagine if Nell had 12 siblings out there in the forest??

That's why I said I assume they are bringing extra care in, such as home health.

I'm not sure why everyone assumes they are sending them out to a home in circumstances they normally would. Given all that authorities and health care professionals have said about their needs, I assume they are taking steps to make sure these are met. These are extraordinary circumstances, and the care that is being arranged is likely also extraordinary. I do believe they are thinking outside the box.

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[bluedivergirl]

I really hope the police have already contacted the new owner who took pictures of the filthy and disturbing condition of one of the houses. I think one of the houses in Texas. Because I swear, I see what looks like a huge blood stain on the carpet in one of the pictures. I could be (and pray) I'm wrong. I actually don't know what a real blood stain would look like because thankfully I have never been in any situation where I have seen a lot of it. But to me, that red looks like blood. If it was from a kid...oh my God.

I think it is blood as well. Wild speculation: one of the girls was bitten by a dog, I believe when she was four. The dog bit her face, but at four, it could have gotten her scalp as well. Scalp wounds bleed like crazy. IIRC, they didn't call for help for 24 hours.

Don't know why they didn't just take her to the ER or Dr. after waiting 24 hours...