CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[Steelslady]

I'm not willing to assume anything related to BT's disappearance.

Especially given the fact that LE has said nothing publicly about photos of BT that were taken that day.

JMO.

That is just so intriguing to me. Also, the last I knew, @dbdb11 was told by RT that when he got his phone back, he would send the photos taken from that day. I believe @dbdb11 still hasn't received those photos?

 

[Steelslady]

Yes, I believe the 9 day search is proof that LE had the photo evidence that BT had been there at some point in the time frame RT gave them. They wouldn’t have endangered people and dogs for that long without a good reason. We can second guess the photos, but it seems pointless to twist ourselves into pretzels to come to a different conclusion IMO.

That there were photos doesn’t in itself let RT off the hook, of course. I’m glad to see LE backtracking to the gas station, for instance, and not making assumptions. As we saw with Chase Merritt and the McStays case in the same county, just because someone (CM) says something doesn’t make it true. That investigation took a very quiet year before the arrest. And even then, there are still those who think CM was innocent. This case isn’t any more clearcut as far as we can see right now. But if anyone can solve it, SBSD has a good chance of doing so.
JMO

If this is the case, though, why haven't they expanded their search for her? What if she walked in the opposite direction of the RV and wandered further than expected?

 

[LietKynes]

Even if there are no further updates from LE... I'd like to think that at least we're trying to discuss and maybe break the case by discussing it here at WS.
"Opinionate" away @bronbaby and others as well--- and don't stop.
We need to find her.
We need to discuss the 'what ifs'.
It is possible she is concealed somewhere or in a mine shaft--- someplace vultures and other animals wouldn't scatter her.
If she is found in such a manner (I would hope not); we have no idea if the fantasy-based "abductor" tossed her in there or some other crime occurred.
Or even if there was a crime.

Let's say she became 'lost' : I don't think this could've happened near where RT said it did , as she should've been found by now.
So did they stop at other areas in the Mojave and RT just forgot ?
Doubtful as I've not read anywhere that he suffers from elderly frailty or dementia.

Maybe LE asked him not to divulge where else they stopped at, due to their own reasons.
We've gone over quite a few scenarios--- why not this one ?

As long as Barbara's case is being discussed... there should be no reason to stop with theories.
Some have posted plausible ones.

Heartbreaking for those who loved her and have to sit back and watch as others close to Barbara do nothing.
Some who were friends and have not even the grace to put up a reward for her.
It's sad that strangers who never met her are actually making an effort.

Like some of us here who are still posting theories and trying to find out what happened to Barbara.

 

[bronbaby]

Even if there are no further updates from LE... I'd like to think that at least we're trying to discuss and maybe break the case by discussing it here at WS.
"Opinionate" away @bronbaby and others as well--- and don't stop.
We need to find her.
We need to discuss the 'what ifs'.
It is possible she is concealed somewhere or in a mine shaft--- someplace vultures and other animals would scatter her.
If she is found in such a manner (I would hope not); we have no idea if the fantasy-based "abductor" tossed her in there or some other crime occurred.
Or even if there was a crime.

Let's say she became 'lost' : I don't think this could've happened near where RT said it did , as she should've been found by now.
So did they stop at other areas in the Mojave and RT just forgot ?
Doubtful as I've not read anywhere that he suffers from elderly frailty or dementia.

Maybe LE asked him not to divulge where else they stopped at, due to their own reasons.
We've gone over quite a few scenarios--- why not this one ?

As long as Barbara's case is being discussed... there should be no reason to stop with theories.
Some have posted plausible ones.

Heartbreaking for those who loved her and have to sit back and watch as others close to Barbara do nothing.
Some who were friends and have not even the grace to put up a reward for her.
It's sad that strangers who never met her are actually making an effort.

Like some of us here who are still posting theories and trying to find out what happened to Barbara.

thank you @LietKynes for your impassioned and intelligent post!

 

[Lilibet]

If this is the case, though, why haven't they expanded their search for her? What if she walked in the opposite direction of the RV and wandered further than expected?

LE told our VI that there was photo proof that Barbara had been there. Are you saying that if they didn’t search somewhere else it means there weren’t photos or am I misunderstanding your question?

Do we know the exact perimeter of the search area? They may very well have covered an expanded area and/or may do so in the future. I expect that SAR and LE take those possibilities into consideration, calculating the possible distance she could walk in any direction after searching in the more immediate area.

In any case, they conducted a 9 day search under very difficult circumstances and stated that they were satisfied that Barb had been in that area because of photos. I believe LE.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

We really need some fresh info for this thread, hope something else comes along soon.

 

[LAhiker]

If this is the case, though, why haven't they expanded their search for her? What if she walked in the opposite direction of the RV and wandered further than expected?

As @Lilibet suggests, they may have looked further than we think they did. Also, while it's of course possible that she walked further than their search area, they may be pursuing some other theory of what happened. JMO

 

[LietKynes]

We can second guess the photos, but it seems pointless to twist ourselves into pretzels to come to a different conclusion IMO.

That there were photos doesn’t in itself let RT off the hook, of course. I’m glad to see LE backtracking to the gas station, for instance, and not making assumptions. As we saw with Chase Merritt and the McStays case in the same county, just because someone (CM) says something doesn’t make it true.
JMO

Snipped for focus
BBM

Thoughtful post, @Lilibet !

First bolded : Not so sure about that... as I'd mistakenly taken photos with a new camera and had to go back and change the time stamps to reflect the correct day and time of our trip.
In doing so, I also changed the time and date of 5 previous pics.that were on the memory card.
Not a big deal.
But it would be if someone in our family went missing on that vacation trip.

Second bolded : "Ain't THAT the truth "
Maybe we've been too focused on 'religiously' believing every word and facial expression of RT's ?
Just b/c he says this is how it happened you'd better believe me ... doesn't make it so.
Time to start discussing other theories if it helps us find Barbara or what's happened to her.
For the record-- I don't believe LE are taking every word RT says as the truth. LE are-- by the nature of their job -- 10 x more suspicious than we are !

 

[Lilibet]

I want her found. And I really don't care what measures the police use to find her.

Torture might work (sarcasm). I want her found too. I’m sure LE will use whatever forensic measures are at their disposal. They certainly dug deep to arrest and convict Chase Merritt.

 

[Lilibet]

Snipped for focus
BBM

Thoughtful post, @Lilibet !

First bolded : Not so sure about that... as I'd mistakenly taken photos with a new camera and had to go back and change the time stamps to reflect the correct day and time of our trip.
In doing so, I also changed the time and date of 5 previous pics.that were on the memory card.
Not a big deal.
But it would be if someone in our family went missing on that vacation trip.

Second bolded : "Ain't THAT the truth "
Maybe we've been too focused on 'religiously' believing every word and facial expression of RT's ?
Just b/c he says this is how it happened you'd better believe me ... doesn't make it so.
Time to start discussing other theories if it helps us find Barbara or what's happened to her.
For the record-- I don't believe LE are taking every word RT says as the truth. LE are-- by the nature of their job -- 10 x more suspicious than we are !

Thanks LK. Yes, timestamps are tricky, but I assume LE didn’t just take them at face value. I’m sure they have ways to determine if they’ve been changed. BUT (thinking as I type) could it have taken longer than the 9 day search to determine that the time stamp had been changed? In other words, did they search the area in good faith based on altered photo time stamps and discover later that they were altered? When did LE tell @dbsb11 that they had photo evidence of Barb’s presence? Is LE still convinced, based on the photos, that Barb was there that day?

Untangling myself from this pretzel position, I honestly don’t think it would have taken LE technicians very long to check the timestamps for accuracy. So I think they would have known within a few days if they were altered and would have aborted the lengthy search. So I still think LE believes Barb was there. JMO

But I agree that LE is not likely to take everything RT says as absolute truth. We aren’t obligated to either, except that he isn’t a POI, so our comments are limited by TOS. Our VI is definitely suspicious of discrepancies in RT’S account. I can see his words and actions both ways, so I’m on the fence.

Sigh. Where are you Barbara?

 

[Gigi3]

Can anyone tell me if this is the same LE that handled the Sheryl Powell case? (I think that was her name... the one that went missing on the same day as BT?) Thanks!

 

[Handsome Sailor]

I want her found. And I really don't care what measures the police use to find her.

I'd like to see Fuhrman go mano a mano with rt

 

[GordianKnot]

Can anyone tell me if this is the same LE that handled the Sheryl Powell case? (I think that was her name... the one that went missing on the same day as BT?) Thanks!

Nope, not the same LEA.

SP went missing in Inyo County.

BT's disappearance is being investigated by the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department (SBCSD).

 

[bronbaby]

I'd like to see Fuhrman go mano a mano with rt

 

[Gigi3]

Nope.

Different counties altogether, different LEAs altogether.

SP went missing in Inyo County, I believe.

BT's disappearance is being investigated by the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department (SBCSD)

Thank you! I remember in the SP case, LE came forward in like day 2 stating that the husband was cleared as a suspect. Just thought it was curious why LE won’t tell us one way or another here, even though RT himself claims to be the “prime suspect”.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm not willing to assume anything related to BT's disappearance.

Especially given the fact that LE has said nothing publicly about photos of BT that were taken that day.

JMO.

Sorry I took so long to respond but I've been stranded along the highway for the last two hours after my tire blew out leaving a trail of smoke behind me.
I could not get the darn tire off the car for the life of me and then finally a kid stopped to help and with one kick off came the tire! It was shredded to pieces but he put the donut on for me.
Thankfully there are still good people in the world willing to help.
I was starting to worry that I might get murdered or something.

Anyway, about "assuming", I should have said that I am sure the VI was referring to the pictures that were taken that day. It had been the context of the discussion for many threads.
In fact in the beginning he specifically said he "assumed" they had verified that she was there based on the pictures of her at that location.
It was not until much later that he clarified that LE did have pictures of her at that location.
It doesn't matter if they were taken next to the RV or not, they were taken where Robert said they had gone for a walk.

Anyway, making assumptions and speculating is all we can do at this point.
There has been absolutely no evidence that a crime has been committed and still it is being assumed that Robert is lying about just about everything and is somehow involved in her disappearance, without any facts to base those assumptions on.

So yes, we should not assume anything when we don't have the facts to back it up. Imo

 

[katydid23]

Do we know for sure that she could hear and see the road and the RV from where she was after she turned the corner? I live 1/4 mile from a busy road, and I have never heard the traffic.

I didn't think LE ever clarified exactly where she was at that point. Some of those rocks look pretty high, and I don't know how we could know exactly where she was or which way she went. Imo

According to her husband she was on the main trail with him, and he saw her heading towards the main road.

Someone posted a picture of the view from that trail, where she would have been last seen, and you could clearly see the highway and the ride where her RV was parked.

I dont see how she could have gotten lost at that point. If she had turned around and gone the wrong way, she would have bumped into her husband.

If she kept going in the same direction she would have reached the highway.

If she had turned right or left, she still would have been parallel to the highway. So I don't understand how she could have gotten lost at that point.

Sounds travel in a desert. I think you could hear sounds from the highway if you were in a flat, deserted desert area, but IDK.

 

[MsBetsy]

According to her husband she was on the main trail with him, and he saw her heading towards the main road.

Someone posted a picture of the view from that trail, where she would have been last seen, and you could clearly see the highway and the ride where her RV was parked.

I dont see how she could have gotten lost at that point. If she had turned around and gone the wrong way, she would have bumped into her husband.

If she kept going in the same direction she would have reached the highway.

If she had turned right or left, she still would have been parallel to the highway. So I don't understand how she could have gotten lost at that point.

Sounds travel in a desert. I think you could hear sounds from the highway if you were in a flat, deserted desert area, but IDK.

Does the picture show the view from every point along the entire 1/4 trail back to the RV or from just one location? How did the person know that was the exact location that she was seen?
A poster said they took a wrong turn and went the wrong way, so it must not be impossible.
Another poster said some of the shrubs and bushes were eight feet high so maybe in those areas the highway could not be seen. What about the rock formations which appear much taller than the bushes?
How can we know that if she turned right or left than she would have been parallel to the highway? Especially if they were opposite directions?
It seems like it is impossible to know without being there. Imo

 

[katydid23]

"Anyway, making assumptions and speculating is all we can do at this point.
There has been absolutely no evidence that a crime has been committed and still it is being assumed that Robert is lying about just about everything and is somehow involved in her disappearance, without any facts to base those assumptions on."


As to the bolded portion above, I think some people are basing their belief upon RT's own words. He said that he failed the polygraph, which showed deception. And he claimed that LE was treating him as a suspect.

So the assumption that he might be lying is based upon his own words, not just raw speculation. JMO

 

[Stripehaven]

LE told our VI that there was photo proof that Barbara had been there. Are you saying that if they didn’t search somewhere else it means there weren’t photos or am I misunderstanding your question?

Do we know the exact perimeter of the search area? They may very well have covered an expanded area and/or may do so in the future. I expect that SAR and LE take those possibilities into consideration, calculating the possible distance she could walk in any direction after searching in the more immediate area.

In any case, they conducted a 9 day search under very difficult circumstances and stated that they were satisfied that Barb had been in that area because of photos. I believe LE.

I’ll say it again: the timeline appears to me to allow time to be at Kelbaker Road, with time to also travel elsewhere and back to Kelbaker.