CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[MsBetsy]

If anyone is attempting to manage a crime scene, sticking close to the truth is always best. I am speaking in generalities, not about RT in particular.



So of course, that's not what he did. That's not what happened. I do believe he'd be brought in for questioning (with his attorney, when he had one) if they found a discontinuity.

They would have had that data early on. They would not have put all those assets and resources into this near record-breaking 9 day desert search if that was the case.

OTOH, LE does know when RT and Barbara arrived at that desert intersection and how much time they had for her to get lost. And since LE is reluctant to go to the abduction theory, they must at least have "lost" still on the table.

I'll bet good money that his GPS is consistent with what he says happened.

Yes, that's true. It's easier to remember the story if it's as close to the truth as possible.
But how is that an indication that he lied?

 

[wary]

bbm
the point though roses, imo implying barb is somehow lost out there in the wilderness is affensive to her being.
that's just my opinion.

In my opinion—not a bit offensive, except for someone who despises any sort of physical failing. Personally, I wouldn’t think less of someone who got heat stroke. The idea of despising someone who became mentally confused because of some physical ailment—I’d consider that unthinkable.

MOO

 

[wary]

BBM

Didn't they actually say that they found no trace or evidence of BT? (I forget the exact wording.) They didn't address photos as evidence that she had been there at all. It seems odd to me that they'd put out a public statement implying that she may not have been there if they were confident that photos proved she was there.

MOO

I can’t swear what LE’s exact words were, but I had the impression that they said that their search did not find evidence of her. Obviously, the photos were not part of their search, so the photos may simply not have been addressed in their statement.

 

[k-mac]

In my opinion—not a bit offensive, except for someone who despises any sort of physical failing. Personally, I wouldn’t think less of someone who got heat stroke. The idea of despising someone who became mentally confused because of some physical ailment—I’d consider that unthinkable.

MOO

sorry have no idea what your point is about despising someone....
it doesn't relate to my post.

barb was on the track almost back to her RV. IT WAS VISIBLE.
the suggestion that she could somehow get delirious, unwell and suddenly vanish off the face of the earth with a 9 day search party finding nothing is just falling very low to realistic possibilities. but I understand why a lot of posters here cling to this idea. it is still 'remotely" possible .

if however barbs demise was for nefarious reasons.....(and nobody can say at this point it isn't.)
why should this astute smart healthy heat loving lady be pushed post after post after post that she was responsible/accountable for her own death.
weather it be...getting lost....heat stroke.....dehydrated from drinking beer....burnt to a crisp from being practically nude.....its very close to victim blaming imo.

moo

 

[LietKynes]

Report the posts, then? We are allowed (at least according to longterm members on other threads) to comment upon any statements given by others (including family) to MSM. I haven't seen any actual sleuthing done regarding any of the family members who have spoken publicly. We have one VI who has added some context regarding what the other family member has said (and revealed) on MSM. But I haven't seen anyone mention any of that for pages and pages now.

It's not sleuthing if the person has made a public statement, IOW. By this I mean commenting on that statement or saying you think it rings true or that it doesn't is *not* sleuthing, it's an opinion. See @Lilibet's post above.

I'm not going to ask for an example of any sleuthing posted on this thread as that's an imposition, but if anyone can point to any sleuthing done beyond Barbara (and that's been exceptionally thin, except for the details from the VI - which we are allowed to read and incorporate into our theories), I'd like to see what you all think is a "sad" example of sleuthing. I have seen none. I can think of lots.

It's not sleuthing to go drive down Kelbaker Road and take pictures (for example). Or attempt to match the topo map and geography to the actions of LE (as posted on Twitter and Nixle) or the actions stated by the family member in a MSM interview. I think we are quite correct in zeroing in on the place that RT mentions as the last place he saw Barbara, but that happened because SAR personnel show a place where they started the sniffer dogs that seems a likely place. We could be wrong. But that's inference, it's not sleuthing.

Building theories is not sleuthing, IMO. Everyone is entitled to opinions and hypotheses, as far as I understand the TOS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So, I think we're all well in compliance with what CocoChanel said.

And ought we not to report any examples where sleuthing has been done to an unnamed suspect? We have remained exceptionally quiet about other family members (one of whom did give a MSM interview, but we have never mentioned anything we know about that person from SM, even though there's a TON of stuff).

(Inferences, critical thinking, opinions, theories are not, to my knowledge, sleuthing, but if mods say that such things are also banned, then of course, we'll all do our best to comply).

The thread will of course fall silent.

And I find that very sad.

LE says no evidence of Barbara at Kelbacker/HH (but LE has said that about missing person cases in the past and someone has found them, later, often slightly outside the search perimeter, which is limited in July to how far searchers can carry water and how hot it is in certain parts of the search). LE says it doesn't think it was abduction. RT says he thinks it was. He said this publicly, he contradicted LE. He's entitled to do so. We are entitled to comment, as I understand it.

Saving this valuable post for later.^^^

Many theories are being discussed, and at the very least we are trying to find Barbara.
In discussing theories or possible explanations as to what happened or where she might be --- we're all doing as much as we can.
Which is a good thing !

 

[LietKynes]

why should this astute smart healthy heat loving lady be pushed post after post after post that she was responsible/accountable for her own death.
weather it be...getting lost....heat stroke.....dehydrated from drinking beer....burnt to a crisp from being practically nude.....its very close to victim blaming imo.

moo

Snipped for focus

It doesn't appear that anyone is blaming her --if she did in fact become lost or overheated (My .02 is that this didn't happen ).

We have one person who said what she was wearing and that she was drinking.
The last person to see her.
If anyone was victim blaming, it was RT , but we don't know if he meant to-- so let's cut him some slack. Pretty safe to assume his family would appreciate it if we take what he has said at face value.

Some of us on this thread struggle with the explanation given.... but that's to be expected on a sleuthing forum.

 

[k-mac]

It doesn't appear that anyone is blaming her --if she did in fact become lost or overheated.

Some of us on this thread struggle with the explanation given.... but that's to be expected on a sleuthing forum.

sbm
but it is suggesting that she is accountable for her own demise independently and that is laying blame at her.
and IF she was indeed murdered that then is victim blaming.

and you are so right.
all this comes off the voice of one person.


moo

 

[LietKynes]

please, no self-licking ice cream cones, or mutual admiration societies on the thread.

Well darn it all ... I like how you put that !
So essentially you're saying that if we disagree we should just say so and thoroughly discuss the reasons why.
It'd be a boring world if we all agreed.

So frustrating to feel like we're still at square one and have learned nothing about what happened that day, not even where RT and she drove after the stop at the gas station. And we didn't see Barbara on video at the last stop where he was on camera--- so we have to take his word that she was with him in the truck.

It's hard to take someone at his word.
It'd be easier if LE would give an update; and either support RT or not --and we'd know where this case stands, and where LE are leaning.

 

[Lilibet]

sbm
but it is suggesting that she is accountable for her own demise independently and that is laying blame at her.
and IF she was indeed murdered that then is victim blaming.

and you are so right.
all this comes off the voice of one person.


moo

No, it’s not victim blaming or suggesting she is accountable for her own demise to consider that Barb got overheated and disoriented and lost. It’s simply one theory that doesn’t include foul play and blaming RT.

But the only way it could have happened this way is if the time frame is longer than RT said it was. I agree with you that she couldn’t have disappeared that quickly.

So was RT mistaken about how long Barb was out of sight or did he deliberately shorten the time frame? All our information comes from him. Bottom line...either he innocently shortened the time she disappeared from sight or he’s not so innocent. Either way, Barbara is a victim and is not to blame.
JMO

 

[OnlyFacts]

This case just keeps going nowhere. Very sad.

 

[Nikynoo]

Saying there are pics that indicate she was "there" is incredibly vague, though.

Where is "there?"

The desert somewhere?
Or exactly the spot where the RV was parked?
Answer: We don't know.
But we do know LE is tracking their movements back to hours before BT was reported missing, b/c they went and collected video surveillance footage from the gas station where RT bought ice that morning.

Why would LE be doing that if they had pics of BT alive and well hours later at the exact spot RT reported her missing from?

Logically, that doesn't make much sense to me.

JMO.

IMO a family members (not VI) input into the investigation may have produced more red herrings than LE (or anyone else) can cope with. IMO this has not helped matters at all.

 

[Nikynoo]

That is just so intriguing to me. Also, the last I knew, @dbdb11 was told by RT that when he got his phone back, he would send the photos taken from that day. I believe @dbdb11 still hasn't received those photos?

perhaps RT hasn't got his phone back? or perhaps RT has been advised by LE not to release them to anyone. Bearing in mind, the accusation made about RT by some family members, are you surprised that they have not been shared?

 

[Nikynoo]

According to her husband she was on the main trail with him, and he saw her heading towards the main road.

Someone posted a picture of the view from that trail, where she would have been last seen, and you could clearly see the highway and the ride where her RV was parked.

I dont see how she could have gotten lost at that point. If she had turned around and gone the wrong way, she would have bumped into her husband.

If she kept going in the same direction she would have reached the highway.

If she had turned right or left, she still would have been parallel to the highway. So I don't understand how she could have gotten lost at that point.

Sounds travel in a desert. I think you could hear sounds from the highway if you were in a flat, deserted desert area, but IDK.

I'm not sure RT said which trail they were on? There are several rock formations along several trails at that location. The EXACT location where they became separated is unknown. IMO

 

[Nikynoo]

"Anyway, making assumptions and speculating is all we can do at this point.
There has been absolutely no evidence that a crime has been committed and still it is being assumed that Robert is lying about just about everything and is somehow involved in her disappearance, without any facts to base those assumptions on."


As to the bolded portion above, I think some people are basing their belief upon RT's own words. He said that he failed the polygraph, which showed deception. And he claimed that LE was treating him as a suspect.

So the assumption that he might be lying is based upon his own words, not just raw speculation. JMO

the question now, is LE STILL treating RT as a suspect?

 

[Nikynoo]

bbm
the point though roses, imo implying barb is somehow lost out there in the wilderness is affensive to her being.
that's just my opinion.

How so? I genuinely want to understand your point here?

 

[Nikynoo]

barb was on the track almost back to her RV. IT WAS VISIBLE.
that she was responsible/accountable for her own death.
weather it be...getting lost....heat stroke.....dehydrated from drinking beer....burnt to a crisp from being practically nude.....its very close to victim blaming imo.

moo

Snipped and bolded by me for focus.
1. We do not know where Barbara was exactly and we do not know whether the RV was visible.
2. Not one WS member has stated the things you have said here.

 

[Nikynoo]

sbm
but it is suggesting that she is accountable for her own demise independently and that is laying blame at her.
and IF she was indeed murdered that then is victim blaming.

and you are so right.
all this comes off the voice of one person.


moo

Respectfully, I disagree. TBH it seems that the attire BT was wearing that day is the norm for desert rats, but in any case, what Barbara was wearing is not the reason she is missing imo

 

[k-mac]

No, it’s not victim blaming or suggesting she is accountable for her own demise to consider that Barb got overheated and disoriented and lost. It’s simply one theory that doesn’t include foul play and blaming RT.

But the only way it could have happened this way is if the time frame is longer than RT said it was. I agree with you that she couldn’t have disappeared that quickly.

So was RT mistaken about how long Barb was out of sight or did he deliberately shorten the time frame? All our information comes from him. Bottom line...either he innocently shortened the time she disappeared from sight or he’s not so innocent. Either way, Barbara is a victim and is not to blame.
JMO

thank you for your thoughtful counter lilibet.
the 9 day extensive search that found no evidence of barb being there just illuminates the nefarious options sadly for me.

moo

 

[Lilibet]

thank you for your thoughtful counter lilibet.
the 9 day extensive search that found no evidence of barb being there just illuminates the nefarious options sadly for me.

moo

I understand, which is why I’m on the fence. IF Barb disappeared and was out of sight longer than RT has said she was, it’s conceivable she went quite a distance before RT missed her. Add in RT searching for an hour, calling 911 plus the two hours before LE arrived after they were called and she had a total of about three hours to walk/wander/get disoriented if that’s what happened...and be outside the initial search area. IF she was able to keep going even longer while they searched, she could be even further outside the area. Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence. So there is a remote chance she is still out there, deceased of course, despite the 9 day search.

But IF RT sticks to the short time frame for her to disappear all bets are off.

 

[Nikynoo]

thank you for your thoughtful counter lilibet.
the 9 day extensive search that found no evidence of barb being there just illuminates the nefarious options sadly for me.

moo

Can I just clarify what your thoughts are in regards to my BBM please? My understanding is that the search teams could not locate Barbara, not that she was never there. Below is an excerpt from Fox News - Daily searches suspended for bikini-clad woman who vanished in Mojave Desert . My interpretation is that they could not locate Barbara, or any of her belongings and the dogs did not pick up any scent. That does not mean that Barbara was not in the location, it means that they could not locate her where they searched.
"But searchers had to cut their efforts short due to "extreme temperatures."

"There has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days," the sheriff's office said. "Temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees."

As I stated above, this is my interpretation of the statement. People interpret statements differently, and I would be interested in your interpretation too,to see another angle.