CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[al66pine]

LE Statements re Pix, & Why SAR & Dogs Found No Evd of BT?

al66pine, thanks for your analysis. I realize that I may not have been very clear. I wasn't saying that there's necessarily a contradiction between LE's statement that they found no evidence in their own searches of the area and LE's statement to the VI that RT's photos showed that he and BT were there when he said. I agree that the statements can be about two different things and don't necessarily conflict as statements.
But when I accept both statements as true and think about the reality behind them, I'm led to the following question. If those photos do show that RT & BT were there then (and if "there" means on that path and near those rocks), why didn't the searchers and dogs find any evidence of her there, even in the areas that RT's statements and photos would've shown her to be?
The simplest answer is that the conditions weren't good for the dogs or the searchers. It was hot for the dogs to sniff efficiently and the desert hardpan wouldn't show her footprints (or that any prints were obscured by those of the searchers). In other words, even if the photos showed she was there, she may have left no trace that SAR could find. But as I mentioned in my post, there are some other possibilities. JMO

@LAhiker Hello, again. TY for your post. bbm sbm
Now re-reading your earlier post and this post, I see my misplaced interp/emphasis. I could and should have simply quoted LE stmts which other ppl have said/are saying contradict each other, so my apologies for (mis)using your post to reconcile the two stmts.

Anywaaaaaaaay, I think your first hypothesis is on target.
The simplest answer is that the conditions weren't good for the dogs or the searchers.
I simply cannot imagine the difficulties the two legged and four legged members of the SAR team endured in that heat and other rugged conditions. Thank goodness for their efforts. jmo.

 

[kay74]

So conditions weren't good for dogs or searchers OR Barbara.

 

[10ofRods]

with regards to GPS on a mobile phone, apart from satellites, I think it may be recorded only if there is cell tower triangulation. i don't know if people can receive a signal on mobile phones in the Mojave Desert. is it know where RT phoned Police? i cannot recall that piece of information, only that RT made a call to L.E
IMO

GPS is independent of cell towers (although improved by use of them).

No Signal? 5 Ways to Use Your Phone GPS Without Data | SmarterTravel

RT was at Kelbaker/HH according to the 911 log (which is supposed to log the location of the call). It is a computerized service that uses GPS to locate the call. One does not need cell data to use it, but we've always had some cell service in that area (unlike Death Valley). There are cell towers along the I-40, about 7 miles away.

SAR searchers were able to tweet from that site, using cellular data.

GPS on the phone has to be turned off (on iPhones or Androids) which most people either choose not to do (really limits functionality of phone) or don't know how to do. It would be be known to LE, since they have his phone, whether the GPS data had a gap in it (which would be a huge red flag).

Anyway, I know that people are able to receive cell signals along Kelbaker Road to as far as Kelso Depot. May @Sroads can weigh in after his recent trip (or any others that have been out there in the last couple of months).

GPS is directly satellite based, not cell tower based. The satellites constantly "ping" your phone and the phone has a record of that constant flow of data. The phone does not have to transmit anything (just be turned on). There's more accuracy in pinpointing locations if cell towers are involved, but if the phone is available, LE can tell where it has been.

MOO.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't believe for one moment that LE is wasting time chasing any red herrings.

The SBCSD is smart enough to know there aren't any pyramids in the Mohave desert.
LE knows that any pyramid sightings here are just a mirage.

They're not ou looking for pyramids, any more than they're looking for a random abductor.

I'm confident that LE knows where to look, figuratively speaking.
Hopefully, technology and good old-fashioned detective work is helping LE to know where to look literally as well.

This LEA has a proven track record of finding the proverbial needle in the haystack. (*See Erin Corwin case)

Barb needs to be found.
I'm 100% confident the SBCSD is actively working to locate her.

JMO.

Yes, I'm sure they are not wasting time, no matter what tips or leads they have to follow up on.

Even if LE is smart enough to know where to look, and may not be looking for any pyramid sightings in the desert, they still have an obligation to follow through with any leads the family may provide.
So even if Barbaras son's belief that her husband is involved in some type of planned kidnapping by some powerful organization connected to the company he worked for doesn't turn out to be true, they still have to explore all options. Even if it does turn out to be a red herring.

So it's not really a matter of them wasting time looking into the organized kidnapping theory, it's just that they are obligated to follow through with any leads that the family may provide.

They have stated that there is no evidence of an abduction, but that doesn't mean they haven't looked into it or ruled it out yet. Imo

 

[PommyMommy]

GPS is independent of cell towers (although improved by use of them).

No Signal? 5 Ways to Use Your Phone GPS Without Data | SmarterTravel

RT was at Kelbaker/HH according to the 911 log (which is supposed to log the location of the call). It is a computerized service that uses GPS to locate the call. One does not need cell data to use it, but we've always had some cell service in that area (unlike Death Valley). There are cell towers along the I-40, about 7 miles away.

SAR searchers were able to tweet from that site, using cellular data.

GPS on the phone has to be turned off (on iPhones or Androids) which most people either choose not to do (really limits functionality of phone) or don't know how to do. It would be be known to LE, since they have his phone, whether the GPS data had a gap in it (which would be a huge red flag).

Anyway, I know that people are able to receive cell signals along Kelbaker Road to as far as Kelso Depot. May @Sroads can weigh in after his recent trip (or any others that have been out there in the last couple of months).

GPS is directly satellite based, not cell tower based. The satellites constantly "ping" your phone and the phone has a record of that constant flow of data. The phone does not have to transmit anything (just be turned on). There's more accuracy in pinpointing locations if cell towers are involved, but if the phone is available, LE can tell where it has been.

MOO.

@sroad talked about cell service in this post:

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2
Folks in this thread (haven't been able to read all of it) are asking about cell service. My phone did not work west of Kelbaker road, and barely worked a little ways east of the turnout. So likely even if she did have a phone she would not have been able to call for help.

 

[MsBetsy]

It's not. I'm not sure how I implied that it was. He does say LE says he was deceptive on the polygraph. We know that LE says that to many people, just to see what happens next. Almost everyone has some unusual results on polygraphs.

But I specifically said I was not speaking of RT. I am speaking of smart criminals (the ones who get away with things, including polygraph results). A smart criminal keeps his/her narrative close to what actually happened, so as not to throw up any red flags, especially in the early investigation. I worked on a case where LE had suspicions (which they did not tell me and which surprised me later) and some of the characters in the story had passed polygraphs. One was lying, but had a real knack for sticking close to the truth (and inside his mind, he could easily tell himself he was basically telling the truth). I was able to spend some time with him and his life history was fascinating. He also took an MMPI (and so did the others - all of them scored a little high, but still normal, on one scale that measures risk-taking). His score was a bit higher than the others, which gave me a reason to discuss it with him.

IF the only witness in this case is lying about anything substantial or IF he merely misremembers or IF his memory (or hearing) are poor, is anyone's guess. But there's a big hole in this case. Why did he tell the world that LE considers him the "prime suspect"? Why does he think foul play is involved?

Isn't the easier hypothesis to assume that Barbara simply got lost while disoriented due to oncoming heat exhaustion?

Yes, I understand, but I was not referring to the polygraph in my post. I was referring to his description of events.

I suggested that he could have come up with a much better story if he was lying and wanted people to believe the scenario he described.
I don't remember what your exact words were in your reply, but it was something about how there are usually elements of truth in a story, even if it is lie. It makes it easier to remember.

That's why I asked how that would indicate that he was lying. I understand that it was a general statement but I guess I assumed you were talking about RT and the story he told. I was just pointing out that because some people tend to do that, it doesn't mean that's what happened in this case.

But yes, why would someone tell the whole world that they were a suspect and that they failed a polygraph?
Why deliberately point the finger at oneself? It makes no sense.
It seems RT is his own worst enemy.
I bet he regrets ever saying anything at all, especially since they contradict LE's statement that they do not suspect foul play.
Imo

 

[Gigi3]

Yes, I understand, but I was not referring to the polygraph in my post. I was referring to his description of events.

I suggested that he could have come up with a much better story if he was lying and wanted people to believe the scenario he described.
I don't remember what your exact words were in your reply, but it was something about how there are usually elements of truth in a story, even if it is lie. It makes it easier to remember.

That's why I asked how that would indicate that he was lying. I understand that it was a general statement but I guess I assumed you were talking about RT and the story he told. I was just pointing out that because some people tend to do that, it doesn't mean that's what happened in this case.

But yes, why would someone tell the whole world that they were a suspect and that they failed a polygraph?
Why deliberately point the finger at oneself? It makes no sense.
It seems RT is his own worst enemy.
I bet he regrets ever saying anything at all, especially since they contradict LE's statement that they do not suspect foul play.
Imo

IMO, I think RT assumed that LE may make a public statement about the failed poly, and he thought he would get it out before they could.
Maybe trying to do a little damage control. However, it kinda backfired because LE hasn’t made any mention of it.

 

[squareandrabbet]

1. We do not know where Barbara was exactly and we do not know whether the RV was visible.
2. Not one WS member has stated the things you have said here.

I agree. Saying that Barb was not equipped as she was to wander in the wilderness for multiple days, is not blaming her. It's just stating a fact as to the likelihood of her longevity in this situation: people wearing as little clothing as possible with no water, in fact drinking a diuretic, won't survive 9 days in 110+ temps in the desert with no shelter. Thus the chance that Barb survived in such a circumstance is slim to none.

I myself wilt under very little heat. I do wonder why Barb wasn't better prepared upon this walk "in case she got lost"; but that's I'm a pessimist in addition to being a heat wimp, and would always expect/worry to get lost in such a situation. Clearly Barb isn't a glass-half-empty fraidy cat like me.

 

[artsy1]

Family suspects foul play in disappearance of Bullhead City woman

 

[Nerissa]

It's interesting: two things
Either RT failed a lie detector - not great - but not real reliable from those who know @ what it can do, prove & not prove
OR
He didn't: then LE is lying to him......now, that would be interesting: suggests LE has their own motive

Also interesting that in the Sheryll Powell case - the husband is cleared by LE within two days. 2 days! That's pretty pronto

Sheryl disappeared in a remote area. As did BT.

I'd sure like to know what is the difference, in LE minds, in the two cases...because there is one -

RT hasn't been named POI or a suspect
BUT
He hasn't been cleared....

What & why is it they haven't cleared RT as Sheryl's husband was...?

One woman goes missing
The other woman goes missing
What's the difference - ???
There is one
I have confidence in LE & we'll know

JMO

 

[Gigi3]

Family suspects foul play in disappearance of Bullhead City woman

Thank you so much for this! I’m so happy the family was able to get this out, now maybe we can start contacting those agencies AGAIN! Perhaps they will want to follow up now?

 

[Blue Ridge]

Family suspects foul play in disappearance of Bullhead City woman

Awesome article. Thankful to see this!!!!!!!!

 

[GordianKnot]

Family suspects foul play in disappearance of Bullhead City woman

Wow, wow, wow....FINALLY! @dbdb11, take a look, have you seen this?!

A new MSM article! Great to see...a big thank you to reporter Chelsea Curtis!

Snipped and bolded from the linked article above:

Authorities in California say they are continuing to investigate the disappearance of a Bullhead City woman who went missing nearly two months ago, even though searches for the woman have since been suspended.

Cindy Bachman, a sheriff's spokeswoman, said that investigators were looking into all leads.

The agency's Specialized Investigations Division has assumed the investigation into Thomas' disappearance, according to Bachman. The department's website states that the Specialized Investigations Division is composed of homicide detail, crimes against children and technology crimes.

The Sheriff's Department declined The Arizona Republic's request for public records, including an initial police report and 911 recording, stating that they are considered investigatory documents and are exempt from disclosure under California law.
____________________________

Absolute confirmation for anyone who was questioning it that LE is still investigating BT's disappearance...

And that their investigation at this point does not include searches in that desert location where RT reported she went missing...

And that MSM has in fact requested public records r/t BT's disappearance, and LE has declined the request on the basis that they are investigatory documents...

Make of that what you will....

I know what I make of it.

JMO.

 

[LietKynes]

Family suspects foul play in disappearance of Bullhead City woman

Thanks, @artsy1 !

Interesting article and some discrepancies from what was earlier discussed.

"...My mother and I were close. ... (We) spoke on the phone often..."

^^^ Am assuming this was before she met and married RT. As she was not allowed a cellphone after the marriage; according to the VI.


".... Bachman said the Sheriff's Department does not release information on polygraph tests...."

^^^ As was discussed , LE didn't tell RT he'd failed the poly.
Curious why he told Barbara's nephew and others that he'd failed ?
Almost as if he wanted to do a one-upmanship on LE.

RT could certainly be completely honest in Barbara's vanishing; but maybe he wanted to cast himself as the central character in all of this ?
That's all and nothing more ?

I wish the VI would chime in.
It's good to see the family of Barbara is openly suspecting foul play.
This case may not be as cold as I'd feared !

 

[Tillicum]

Thanks, @artsy1 !

Interesting article and some discrepancies from what was earlier discussed.

"...My mother and I were close. ... (We) spoke on the phone often..."

^^^ Am assuming this was before she met and married RT. As she was not allowed a cellphone after the marriage; according to the VI.
".... Bachman said the Sheriff's Department does not release information on polygraph tests...."

As was discussed , LE didn't tell RT he'd failed the poly.
Curious why he told Barbara's nephew and others that he'd failed ?
Almost as if he wanted to do a one-upmanship on LE.

RT could certainly be completely honest in Barbara's vanishing; but maybe he wanted to cast himself as the central character in all of this ?
That's all and nothing more ?

I wish the VI would chime in.
It's good to see the family of Barbara is openly suspecting foul play.
This case may not be as cold as I'd feared !

I think it's possible LE meant they do not release information on polygraph tests to the public.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Family suspects foul play in disappearance of Bullhead City woman

@dbdb11

 

[MsBetsy]

Family suspects foul play in disappearance of Bullhead City woman

Wow, finally we have an update!
Too bad there is no new information.
Sounds like the same standard answer LE gave the last time.
At least the case is getting some attention.
Maybe some other news sources will be inspired to do another story on the case.

 

[BeachSky]

Wow, wow, wow....FINALLY! @dbdb11, take a look, have you seen this?!

A new MSM article! Great to see...a big thank you to reporter Chelsea Curtis!

Snipped and bolded from the linked article above:

Authorities in California say they are continuing to investigate the disappearance of a Bullhead City woman who went missing nearly two months ago, even though searches for the woman have since been suspended.

Cindy Bachman, a sheriff's spokeswoman, said that investigators were looking into all leads.

The agency's Specialized Investigations Division has assumed the investigation into Thomas' disappearance, according to Bachman. The department's website states that the Specialized Investigations Division is composed of homicide detail, crimes against children and technology crimes.

The Sheriff's Department declined The Arizona Republic's request for public records, including an initial police report and 911 recording, stating that they are considered investigatory documents and are exempt from disclosure under California law.
____________________________

Absolute confirmation for anyone who was questioning it that LE is still investigating BT's disappearance...

And that their investigation at this point does not include searches in that desert location where RT reported she went missing...

And that MSM has in fact requested public records r/t BT's disappearance, and LE has declined the request on the basis that they are investigatory documents...

Make of that what you will....

I know what I make of it.

JMO.

Specialized Investigations Division is composed of homicide detail......

Interesting IMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think this case if about to enter a new phase, and I believe there will be some major developments very soon. Guess we'll see if I'm right.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[LietKynes]

IMO, I think RT assumed that LE may make a public statement about the failed poly, and he thought he would get it out before they could.
Maybe trying to do a little damage control. However, it kinda backfired because LE hasn’t made any mention of it.

BBM

Looks like it.
Trying to "out think" or "outwit" LE ...