CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[darring21]

They perhaps don't 'need' to mention this photo as being taken hours before her disappearance, but I'd be interested to see another missing person case where police had an hours-earlier photo in their possession and did NOT identify it as such. Anyone?

I agree. The photo was from that day and LE assumed they didn't need to mention that since it also matched her clothing description.

 

[deugirtni]

I agree. The photo was from that day and LE assumed they didn't need to mention that since it also matched her clothing description.

Not agreeing with me, since I am saying the opposite - that if that photo which has been widely circulated was indeed taken hours before her disappearance, LE *would* have said so. And I'd like to see an example of a case where police had an hours-earlier photo used for identification of a missing person, and did NOT disclose it as being taken just before disappearing.

 

[LietKynes]

Not agreeing with me, since I am saying the opposite - that if that photo which has been widely circulated was indeed taken hours before her disappearance, LE *would* have said so. And I'd like to see an example of a case where police had an hours-earlier photo used for identification of a missing person, and did NOT disclose it as being taken just before disappearing.

hehe, heh, heh..... your post made me

Anyway....I think this is a first for me in that generally LE release a last known photo.
And also agree with op that after 10,000 + posts we still know practically nothing.
Still feels like something 'hinky'. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

A few anecdotal stories of older women being sexually assaulted doesn't cut it for me.

Have you looked at the statistics?
Victims of Sexual Violence: Statistics | RAINN

Around only 3% of sexual assaults are perpetrated against women in BT's age range. And the majority of those are committed by people the victim knows.

Factoring that stat in with the plethora of other hugely improbable things that would have had to occur in order for an abduction of BT to have occurred in the desert in that brief window, that scenario is at the dead bottom of my list.

We might as well go ahead and say that it's possible aliens abducted her.

JMO.

Also, many of those crimes occurred in nursing homes, committed by staff members who were supposed to be caring for their victims, who were vulnerable and helpless. Imo

 

[Cherwell]

If someone randomly stopped by and Barbara accepted a lift... that would explain why no dropped hat or beer can, etc. And no struggle.
I have doubts that she'd accept an offer of a lift due to my ,02 that she'd be too wise to take such an action.
But it'd explain her vanishing. If a person is taken by car --there'd be no scent to follow, correct ?
So maybe. I still think Barbara was too close to the fifth wheel to get lost or even wander off dehydrated. It's a struggle to envision that happening.

If she had started to suffer from heatstroke, it's likely that her judgement would be impaired.

 

[LietKynes]

If she had started to suffer from heatstroke, it's likely that her judgement would be impaired.

^^^ If that happened, I find it very sad.
And still odd that RT completely lost sight of her.
Could HE see the fifth wheel after taking his photo ?
Or was it a little walk to where the fifth wheel was in his view ?

Wonder if she'd flagged down any passing cars ?
I wish there would be an update from someone... LE or the VI.
Some of my theories cannot be posted lest they be summarily executed.
Will try to sit on my hands and hope for news soon.
Thankful for everyone who is posting and showing that they are trying to figure out this strange case ; and showing that they care about Barbara.

 

[firstsleuth]

BBM

I was out on the West Coast last week and did some major hiking and running on much rougher terrain than desert. The hubs was with me and I feel pretty confident saying that there isn't a logical way I could have 'vanished' out of his sight in a quarter of a mile without there being more to the story.

I honestly don't know what happened to Barbra, but this whole situation just doesn't make sense to me. It's a shame there hasn't been any updates, but LE might be much further along on a theory than we know. Let's hope.

Yep, me too since Barbara went missing, lots of hiking, including bushwhacking in Alaska where it would be very easy to go missing...but not within 1/4 mile of your partner...bc of SOUND, unless there was lots of wind that day? And excluding accepting a ride

ETA: BBM ...I am hoping LE has much more than we do

 

[darring21]

Not agreeing with me, since I am saying the opposite - that if that photo which has been widely circulated was indeed taken hours before her disappearance, LE *would* have said so. And I'd like to see an example of a case where police had an hours-earlier photo used for identification of a missing person, and did NOT disclose it as being taken just before disappearing.

Why should they tell anyone? They are trying to give an example of what she looked like. Our sleuthing curiosity is not their concern.

 

[MassGuy]

Why should they tell anyone? They are trying to give an example of what she looked like. Our sleuthing curiosity is not their concern.

This has nothing to do with us, and everything to do with standard procedure in cases like this.

When someone disappears and a photo is disseminated, law enforcement will typically provide context to an image.

When Mackenzie Lueck was missing, law enforcement released the last known images of her from the Salt Lake airport.

They told us these were the last ones. That grabs people’s attention more than basically saying “here’s what she looks like.”

If law enforcement doesn’t come out and say that, the media will typically do that for them (if they know that to be the case).

That’s why this is all so strange; we don’t know when exactly that photo was taken.

 

[deugirtni]

Why should they tell anyone? They are trying to give an example of what she looked like. Our sleuthing curiosity is not their concern.

Because it is very important information regarding *exactly* what she looked like and *exactly* what she was wearing just hours earlier. I'm asking for an example of a case where they had such a timely photo and did NOT disclose it as being taken only hours earlier. I have seen the exact opposite, where it seems to be proudly broadcast that a photo IS in existence which is known to be the last photo and taken only hours earlier (or however long it may happen to be in the individual cases).. many many times. Police would know that this, of course, would be very helpful to searchers and to members of the public who might be out searching on their own, or just generally keeping their eyes open for her (perhaps in Vegas, since RT had suggested she may have been taken there). No guesses about whether BT looked the same as in the photo, since people don't really change appearance or age too much within a few hours, but they very well could change appearance within a year or so. No guesses about whether the hat was exactly *that* hat or a different hat, etc.

 

[10ofRods]

They perhaps don't 'need' to mention this photo as being taken hours before her disappearance, but I'd be interested to see another missing person case where police had an hours-earlier photo in their possession and did NOT identify it as such. Anyone?

How would we know this? In my county, LE puts out pictures of missing persons all the time, with no caption whatsoever. Some of them look as if they could be quite recent - but they never give the time of the picture. Some look like selfies or yearbook or prom or DMV photos (so I'd exclude that). But some of the photos show people doing things they might have done that day.

I will say that I don't think SBCSO does the kind of job that, say, Park Rangers do at Grand Canyon in updating and clarifying what they have released. A lot of people have been vocal with the Park Superintendent over the years, to get GCNP to be more forthcoming (they were always more forthcoming, at least since I began researching and working there circa 1985).

Here's an example where it's clear that the photo is designed to indicate what the missing person was wearing, and with a little inference, it's clear it's not "day of."

Missing Person Search at Grand Canyon - Grand Canyon National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

By contrast, the information that SBSCO has released is scant, and it doesn't give clues that indicate that the photo was taken any other time. Indeed, it appears to have been cropped out of a larger picture and is aiming to show what kind of clothing and hat Barbara may have been wearing.

Also, I'm going with what the VI has said about photos, and I trust his repeated statements on this topic, which seems to heat up about every other thread. We will have to each use our own intuitions on this, I think. One would think that LE could adopt either policy (always say if it's a recent picture - but of course, then they'd need forensic study before saying that) or just do their best to get pictures out there.

It is possible they'd tell a reporter, if the reporter was from a reputable news agency.

 

[10ofRods]

That would be a really good possibility, IF her husband didn't point out to police the spot where he last saw her, and the route to the quarter-mile-away RV. If poor BT succumbed to heatstroke after rounding that corner on her way back to the RV, then why did 9 or 10 days of searching by various methods fail to locate her? Doesn't make sense. imo.

But people are so known to be wrong, especially in the desert, about where they were when something happened. I do time estimation experiments with students all the time (about to do one in about 15 minutes here) and there's quite a bit of variation in how people experience and report time (as compared to a clock). Many of us have noticed it in our own relationships. "I'll be there in two minutes" is only two minutes for some people, most people will take longer than that if they say two minutes. "I'll be there in thirty minutes" will likely have variation on either side of 30 minutes for that arrival, with more people arriving past 30 than before 30. IOW, people tend to underestimate time on many occasions, especially if they are running late and trying to minimize others' consciousness of that fact.

The average initial search for a missing person in the Mojave is about 1-1.5 square miles (source: SAR personnel, SAR training materials). As that first 24 hour period wore on, other things (big cats) could have intervened OR if Barbara was fit and walked 2 miles in the wrong direction, the search would have had to cover about 4-16 square miles (and Nixle mentions a close grid search on one day, but doesn't say how much was covered - they do say that 20 volunteers were searching, so I don't think it would be possible to do a close grid search of 6 square miles. Since we don't know which direction Barbara got lost in (if she did), 16 square miles would cover 2 miles in each direction from the place where RT says he last saw her. That certainly didn't happen. SAR stats say that neither dogs nor copters are likely to find a missing person down in the desert (20-30% likelihood). 70% of the time, the person is found by actual human individuals, on the ground.

During Barbara's search, West Valley SAR (which numbers around 45 people) had two other call-outs. Nixle never mentions a number higher than 10 and I never saw more than 10 in place at a time in their pictures.

SO...yep, just as with the Amboy Crater event, it's possible that Barbara could be out there, outside the area that was searched.

 

[Curiousobserver]

The VI has said there were pictures of her at that location on that day. LE must have seen them to have searched 9 days. The critical thing is the timeline- when was the last picture taken in relation to the 911 call and was there enough time or any evidence that something nefarious could have happened after that last picture.

I scratch my head at every missing person who is found and think how on earth could you have missed them! Sometimes with 100's of people looking for days and they end up less than a mile away? But they almost always do. I don't understand it but it must be difficult to find a body.

It is entirely plausible that she got lost, it's also possible she was a victim of foul play.

Need to wait for more data- the timeline if LE decides to release it.

If the timeline/story checks-out my guess is that LE won't release anything

 

[K9Enzo]

It's possible that LE is looking at this as a missing hiker case, even today.

It could explain why you are not seeing any pics/video footage released of BT, that LE may have collected. Releasing that information is not relevant if they don't suspect foul play and feel it will lead to locating BT.

It's possible they investigated the timeline leading up to her reported disappearance. It's possible they investigated her life and those closest to her leading up to her disappearance and they still came back to a missing hiker case.

Perhaps some things did give them pause, they investigated, and still came back to a missing hiker case because "things checked out". Obviously they know more than us, they know more than what they are sharing with family even.

IMO, there are plenty of missing hikers who are still missing or were eventually recovered deceased and LE never released investigative pics or footage, if they had it. What circulated was the pic(s) that LE put out by family, that was it.

Like many, I would like to know if the pic they released was from that day or another day. It's my own curiosity but I don't think that compels LE to confirm.

Just my two cents.

 

[Nikynoo]

That grabs people’s attention more than basically saying “here’s what she looks like.”

BBM and SBM - but isn't that what the photo does?

EBM - typos - been a long day

 

[MassGuy]

BBM and SBM - but isn't what that photo does?

A photo certainly does that, but saying “this is the last known photo,” does something even more.

That’s why those stupid clickbait articles are so effective.

I saw one the other day: “Ominous last photos before tragedy struck.”

It grabs us for some reason.

The media does the same thing.

 

[Curiousobserver]

A photo certainly does that, but saying “this is the last known photo,” does something even more.

That’s why those stupid clickbait articles are so effective.

I saw one the other day: “Ominous last photos before tragedy struck.”

It grabs us for some reason.

The media does the same thing.

Does it really matter? How many elderly ladies would there be in a bikini and red hat wandering the desert? If you see one, call us.

 

[kay74]

If I have ONE beer, I can feel it. Maybe that's what threw her off.

 

[Nikynoo]

A photo certainly does that, but saying “this is the last known photo,” does something even more.

That’s why those stupid clickbait articles are so effective.

I saw one the other day: “Ominous last photos before tragedy struck.”

It grabs us for some reason.

The media does the same thing.

Yes, I agree, especially in some cases. I think it was the Spurlock (?sp) case, there were lots of pictures and CCTV and the media certainly sensationalised that once the body was found (thats when I thats when I heard about the case). IIRC, police also searched the property where the body was finally located months later. I need to catch up with that case!

Anyway, back to this case, perhaps LE and the media thought we could work it out (or perhaps been obtuse on purpose?), hat (check), black bikini top (check) desert setting with rocks in background (check).

 

[Nikynoo]

If I have ONE beer, I can feel it. Maybe that's what threw her off.

one sip and I'm anybodys