CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #18

[zwiebel]

The murdered 'woman' in Yorba Linda was a runaway 17 year old. It's so sad.

CA-Arrest after woman's body found in Yorba Linda - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[zwiebel]

When Namus runs exclusions against unidentified people in its database, would that automatically throw up any matches for missing people with DNA submitted to the database?

It's just that there is an UID in San Bernardino, found in 2011 'max 65 years old'. Ages have been far out before. I'm just wondering if that could be Bob. His DNA might not have been submitted when those exclusions were run. I'll post the details in a minute.

 

[zwiebel]

That was a very long minute but I've been trying to work out if there has been a sudden hike in crimes against seniors in OC and, especially, in SB. I don't think there is any way to work that out though, without waiting for crime stats to be released which seem to be about two years behind.

I hope it is just a case of media paying more attention to crimes against seniors because there do seem to be quite a few around at the moment. Crimes against seniors are just as creepy and unfathomable as crimes against children, in my opinion.

 

[zwiebel]

The remains I was talking about were discovered about an hour's drive from Placentia by a hiker in Cajon Wash, a quarter mile N.W of Glen Helen Raceway. See map. I think there is an off-highway trail thereabouts too.

Case 701106012
Date of discovery was Sept 4 2011
Entered in Namus Oct 6 2011
Caucasian male
Upper age estimate 65
Skeletal remains with no height, weight or other details available

Only exclusions listed are:
Jaime FLowers
Terrence O Donahue

I need to go back and check the date Bob was listed now

 

[zwiebel]

Bob's details were entered on August 18th, 2009.

But I still don't know if that means he would have been cross checked for any matches automatically.

And I have just remembered the date his DNA was entered isn't the same as his first listing date.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, I don't think there is any way to check when DNA was completed. Can anybody remember?

 

[zwiebel]

Glen Helen seems to be a place where people who like motorcycles and OHV might be familiar with.

http://www.glenhelen.com/gallery-index/

 

[travelbug]

The key not being in the mail box is such an important point, I think.

Bob's long-term housekeeper said he was a man of habit and that he was nearly always there when she was due to call. But if ever he went out, he always left the key in the mailbox. That's why she was so worried when he didn't answer the door but the key wasn't there either.

It may not be connected of course, but I do find it interesting that when son in law returned to Bob's home he seemed surprised to find the housekeeper there - as though Bob hadn't told him she was coming.

The story posted earlier about the husband who murdered his wife but overlooked the tiny detail about leaving the burglar alarm on (would anyone abducting his wife really have bothered to reset the alarm?) sets my mind racing in relation to Bob's case, and those tiny details.

IMO If this case eventually goes to trial without a found body the housekeeper will be a key witness. She had knowledge of Bob's plans for the day and her impression of the son-in-law, his behavior and his mental state, will be significant testimony. Where was he while she was cleaning? Did he seem preoccupied with any particular area (or with avoiding any particular area)? Why did he go to Home Depot only to make another trip a few hours later? She is impartial and objective observer who has not been maligned by any family members or Fontelle.

Sadly, I don't think Bob's remains will be found. I just hope the DA will move forward with a case based upon financial motives.

 

[ellemo]

This case is so sad. This man and woman had a chance to love again and that was taken away. My thoughts are that he was suffocated while he slept. That is why the bed wasn't made and also why there wasn't any obvious signs of foul play. The family has thrown out so many things to try to deflect suspicion -- alleging that Josie ( the woman who owed him money) was driving around the house but her alibi checks out; saying the father may have memory issues and didn't like to drive but friends have different story and doc said he was competent.

What happened to the estate? Did Fontelle get anything? In California, spouses are entitled to 1/2 the estate but I imagine that is easier to contest if the married couple hadn't lived together. So even if he never told the kids about putting Fontelle's name on the house, the family still had a very good motive for killing him before Fontelle moved in and got a better claim to his estate.

 

[travelbug]

This case is so sad. This man and woman had a chance to love again and that was taken away. My thoughts are that he was suffocated while he slept. That is why the bed wasn't made and also why there wasn't any obvious signs of foul play. The family has thrown out so many things to try to deflect suspicion -- alleging that Josie ( the woman who owed him money) was driving around the house but her alibi checks out; saying the father may have memory issues and didn't like to drive but friends have different story and doc said he was competent.

What happened to the estate? Did Fontelle get anything? In California, spouses are entitled to 1/2 the estate but I imagine that is easier to contest if the married couple hadn't lived together. So even if he never told the kids about putting Fontelle's name on the house, the family still had a very good motive for killing him before Fontelle moved in and got a better claim to his estate.

BBM This is only true if the asset is in the deceased spouse's name. If the asset is held by a trust the new spouse is not automatically entitled to 1/2. That fact provides the primary motive for the disappearance of Bob. He was planning to re-title at least some of his accounts to include Fontelle. Thus far we don't know if any evidence exists that Bob planned to amend his trust. We can only hope that LE can tie up those loose ends and make a pretty "conviction" bow.

 

[ellemo]

BBM This is only true if the asset is in the deceased spouse's name. If the asset is held by a trust the new spouse is not automatically entitled to 1/2. That fact provides the primary motive for the disappearance of Bob. He was planning to re-title at least some of his accounts to include Fontelle. Thus far we don't know if any evidence exists that Bob planned to amend his trust. We can only hope that LE can tie up those loose ends and make a pretty "conviction" bow.

I knew there was a trust hut didn't realize that all his wealth was in it. I thought it was just some of it set aside for his daughters.

I am of the opinion that the kids don't deserve their parent's money. I am very appreciative that I inherited some money when my father passed away, but I consider that a gift, not something I deserve. I didn't earn it, my father did, and I never questioned how he spent it while he was alive. He wasn't a millionaire, so perhaps if he was I might have thought or behaved differently. I would like to think, though, that if I would've felt the same way.

 

[zwiebel]

Police found notes in Bob's handwriting about putting Bob's name on his checking account, but nothing about him adding her to the estate or family trust. However, Fontelle says that when she spoke to Bob on the phone Sunday night he was very upset. She says he informed her he had spoken to family about adding her name to the estate and they weren't happy about it at all.

In the Disappeared episode, one daughter does say 'we warned him' after they heard he had married Fontelle. I believe daughter JuM? suggested Bob get the marriage anulled too.

Daughter JuM and RB both said the family were very happy for Bob and Fontelle and their new marriage though. It all seems a bit contradictory.

 

[zwiebel]

I don't see why Bob can't be found. Some off-highway biker decided to ride around a pretty unexciting spot around Victorville and managed to accidentally locate the remains of two adults and two children from San Diego - the Mcstay family.

Victim locations depend on perps being able to get to them. That means searchers and accidental heroes can get to them too. That's my hope, anyhow.

 

[travelbug]

I don't see why Bob can't be found. Some off-highway biker decided to ride around a pretty unexciting spot around Victorville and managed to accidentally locate the remains of two adults and two children from San Diego - the Mcstay family.

Victim locations depend on perps being able to get to them. That means searchers and accidental heroes can get to them too. That's my hope, anyhow.

I sure do wish that would happen, then we could get some justice for Bob. IMHO the disappearance was carefully executed and if the housekeeper hadn't appeared on the scene would not have been discovered for a few more days. The logistics of travel around Placentia and the time constraints make me believe that Bob is in the landfill. There were 2 different cases on I.D. in the past few days where 2 bodies were placed in a landfill. Even after getting a confession in one case, and a tip in another, they were only able to find one of the deceased in each case. It's like finding a needle in a haystack.

 

[zwiebel]

I wonder. There seems so much risk in using a landfill, especially in daylight. They seem to be used a lot by perps who live in very urban places where options for disposal are limited. With Placentia, a fairly short drive gets a person to natural terrain and isolated tracks.

There is the case of Lynsie Ekelund of Placentia. She wasn't taken to a landfill either, although it looks like her killer had all night to dispose of her.

Purely from a practical point of view, Bob was a tall person for one person on their own to dispose of and conceal. I'm just not convinced anyone would have risked struggling to remove his body in a public landfill.

 

[zwiebel]

I saw news breaking very early yesterday about that horrible crash in OC on freeway 60. I hoped it woldn't be too bad and instead it got worse and worse. Don't they have speed cameras and cctv on freeways in SoCal?

Not that I think it could have saved anyone in that case. But I think it could have helped with Bob's case.

 

[travelbug]

I saw news breaking very early yesterday about that horrible crash in OC on freeway 60. I hoped it woldn't be too bad and instead it got worse and worse. Don't they have speed cameras and cctv on freeways in SoCal?

Not that I think it could have saved anyone in that case. But I think it could have helped with Bob's case.

Not like you have across the pond. I recall being stuck in traffic circling Heathrow and amazed by how quickly a tow truck showed up to help a disabled vehicle. We also don't have your clever roundabouts, although we have a few in other parts of CA where new roads are being added. What we have here is a giant pile of spaghetti, all coming together every mile or 2 at speeds of 70 miles per hour.

That is part of the reason I've settled on the landfill. Freeway 60, that you mentioned above, is one of the 2 primary east/west access routes for Orange County - the other one is the 91 freeway. A trip of 15 miles on either of them during a weekday morning can take 30 to 60 minutes and that does not include the surface street time (with traffic lights every block) to access them from Bob's house. The gigantic landfill is the closest disposal site to his house and could easily be reached in 20 to 25 minutes. I've been there a few times and, since it uses satellite operated equipment you just drive out to the newest disposal area and push, shovel or throw out whatever you have. Bob was tall, but quite thin, and could easily be rolled up in an old blanket, some carpeting or a tarp and tossed out of the back of a truck. The equipment later comes over and dumps fresh dirt on the debris. It's also difficult to describe how large the landfill is. It covers the majority of a large hills on all sides. It takes nearly a mile from the check-in point to drive to the multiple fill areas. JMHO

 

[zwiebel]

Gosh, I hope in 100 years or so some unsuspecting developers don't try and build houses there. I lived somewhere in England where that had happened and boy, did it cause some problems!

Don't the landfills have cctv in CA? I know it would be far too late to check it but I was thinking about any suspect having knowledge of that, and being put off from dumping a body there.

 

[zwiebel]

Unbelievable. This pregnant CA teen was put in a trash can and collected by the truck, with nobody noticing. Despite going to the landfill though, she was found although it took searchers months.

I don't understand why there can be such dedication to finding one person and it can be so different for another.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/12933095/missing-teenagers-body-found-in-calif-landfill

 

[zwiebel]

The jury in the 2009 Stanton double homicide brought in a guilty verdict today, in less than four hours. Special circumstances too. Another success for the OC DA's office.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/thomas-601317-jury-palmer.html