CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 4

[Angelo]

I wonder if the bunch of them went over to grandson's house for a 2nd meeting after leaving Bob's that Sunday.

I think that is very possible.

Daughter R posted that those who attended Sunday's heated meeting were "long gone" by 2pm.

The fact that R felt the need to inform us that they were long gone leads me to believe something happened after they left Mr. Harrod's on Sunday.

 

[Montjoy]

Daughter R - "I'm sure Dad told Fontelle whatever he wanted her to believe and, her version is nothing near the truth of what really happened that early AFTERNOON. After all, they only had almost two weeks together and that is not enough time to truly know someone, realistically."

If Bob was the sort of person to tell people 'what they want to believe', I think he would have denied intending to include Fontelle in his estate to his daughters. (I like also how R tries to imply that there is a connection between their short second courtship/marriage and Bob's willingness to deceive, by using 'after all'.) I've often wondered how the topic came up. Did they ask Bob? Did he volunteer it? I do respect that he planned on including Fontelle and that he told them because it was the truth and right, but given his family, I do regret him having been honest. (I have no idea of whether he has any obligation to disclose his own will to his children, but I would guess not.)

I also think it's hard to imagine the daughters *not* going to AH's after the meeting with Bob. They surely wanted to vent, and could not do so in his front yard. Where else would they do so -- in a Perkins?

 

[Angelo]

If Bob was the sort of person to tell people 'what they want to believe', I think he would have denied intending to include Fontelle in his estate to his daughters. (I like also how R tries to imply that there is a connection between their short second courtship/marriage and Bob's willingness to deceive, by using 'after all'.) I've often wondered how the topic came up. Did they ask Bob? Did he volunteer it? I do respect that he planned on including Fontelle and that he told them because it was the truth and right, but given his family, I do regret him having been honest. (I have no idea of whether he has any obligation to disclose his own will to his children, but I would guess not.)

I also think it's hard to imagine the daughters *not* going to AH's after the meeting with Bob. They surely wanted to vent, and could not do so in his front yard. Where else would they do so -- in a Perkins?

IMO, the Sunday meeting was all about money. This was years in the making but Mr. Harrod's marriage brought it to a head. I believe the daughters felt threatened by Mr. Harrod's marriage to Fontelle. IMO they were not worried about sharing his affections, they were worried about sharing his money.

Part of the meeting may have been devoted to trying to talk Mr. Harrod out of the marriage. Perhaps this is when he told them of his intention to add Fontelle to his accounts.

They may have threatened him, told him they would take him to court. Mr. Harrod may have told them they would not get anything if they did that. He may of told them to leave.

I don't believe there was any "happy talk" going on at the heated Sunday meeting.

 

[believe09]

I think that is an excellent observation Angelo-I have been thinking that the meeting was Bob's way of clearing some items off of his list of To Do's..for example, there was the constant pressure regarding the bypass trust. The appearance of Elder Services. The attitude regarding his new wife. I can conceive of a stituation where he sat everyone down and said essentially this is my life, my money, I am integrating Fontelle into all of this by adding her to my accounts, my will, my burial plot as well perhaps. Perhaps he did discuss some kind of division of assets that might have been required between the two trusts, but as we have discussed ad infinitem on this thread, bypass trusts are tax vehicles to minimize estate taxes. Bob still had liberal access to the funds and sole control of it.

Before he disappeared, that is.

Georgia's will itself was filed and was a matter of public record. The possible heirs had a number of opportunities to avail them selves of copies for a nominal fee at the courthouse.

Which makes me wonder if in fact Georgia DID leave specific bequests. Maybe she left everything to Bob, and it was at his discretion to distribute. This is the only reason I can fathom that the daughters did not go get the information themselves. Because they already had it.

 

[cloudajo]

Daughters have complained multiple times on forums about not having access to their mother’s personal items. We know in July 2009 that two daughters went to Bob’s house to remove their mom’s personal stuff. The complaining sounds like more baloney to me. I’m sure Bob would have been more than willing to share their mother’s things with the daughters, if they had shown an interest. IMO

On July 15, 2009 (12 days before Bob went missing), daughter J posted on ROTW “Just got back uth, (nasty hot and humid down there) I needed to help remove mom's personal stuff out of the house preparing for my dad's new bride to move in.”

http://rimoftheworld.net/discuss/166/4013?page=4855

On August 11, 2009, Paula posted that after F went back to MO to pack her things, “we had at least gotten rid of my Mom's clothes and the rest I figured they could do together and of course we would have been there to help as well.”

 

[believe09]

OK- so did they or did they not have access to Georgia's things after she passed. Clearly the answer is yes...except when it seems convenient to remember otherwise? Perhaps the one daughter, R, was left out of the distribution while Fontelle was in MO...hopefully her sisters shared items with her.

 

[Angelo]

Elder abuse goes on much too often in this country. Some examples of elder abuse:


Verbal forms of emotional elder abuse include

• intimidation through yelling or threats
• humiliation and ridicule
• habitual blaming or scapegoating

Financial or material exploitation is defined as the illegal or improper use of an elder's funds, property, or assets. Examples include, but are not limited to, cashing an elderly person's checks without authorization or permission; forging an older person's signature; misusing or stealing an older person's money or possessions; coercing or deceiving an older person into signing any document (e.g., contracts or will); and the improper use of conservatorship, guardianship, or power of attorney.







http://www.helpguide.org/mental/elder_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm#types

http://www.ncea.aoa.gov/NCEAroot/Main_Site/FAQ/Basics/Types_Of_Abuse.aspx

 

[believe09]

Huh. Pretty good information, Angelo. Thank you.

 

[believe09]

IIRC, the second elder abuse case is still open because they could not contact Bob, is that right? Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick AGAIN-maybe someone opened it for another reason other than the reason for the first case. (Which was opened and rapidly closed after speaking to Bob.)

Perhaps it was opened by someone who was concerned about other influences in Bob's life that were more permanent ones.

I am 50/50 on whether or not Bob might have been hurt by these approaches being taken regarding his ability to make decisions for himself. I feel like the sabbatical he requested was to take some time to reflect and to mourn his wife's passing.

 

[Angelo]

In her postings, daughter R mentions several times she has a duty to protect her parent’s “legally documented wishes.”

We know that documents were found in Mr. Harrod’s home which indicated he planned to add Fontelle to accounts. We know from Mr. Harrod’s own writings, TV & newspaper interviews, and his conversations with Paul, that he loved Fontelle and wanted to spend the rest of his life with her.

So how did the daughters treat Fontelle, the woman their father credited with giving an old man hope for the future?

Within days of her arrival the daughters told Fontelle she was not entitled to any of their father’s assets. They also asked her to leave the house. They went on an internet forum and made insinuations about Fontelle and her family.

I guess wishes only matter if they are “legally” documented.

 

[believe09]

Morally documented, not so much. I hope any fence sitters are seeing a pattern here-I am certainly shocked to find out in the daughters own words that they had access to their mother's things prior to Fontelle returning from MO. I mean the hue and cry about these precious mementos being held hostage?

Which leads me to believe that anything remaining in the house after this clean out belonged to Bob. And it almost, but not quite, solidifies in my mind the belief that there were no specific bequests in Georgia's will.

 

[suzyq211]

Elder abuse goes on much too often in this country. Some examples of elder abuse:


Verbal forms of emotional elder abuse include

• intimidation through yelling or threats
• humiliation and ridicule
• habitual blaming or scapegoating

Financial or material exploitation is defined as the illegal or improper use of an elder's funds, property, or assets. Examples include, but are not limited to, cashing an elderly person's checks without authorization or permission; forging an older person's signature; misusing or stealing an older person's money or possessions; coercing or deceiving an older person into signing any document (e.g., contracts or will); and the improper use of conservatorship, guardianship, or power of attorney.







http://www.helpguide.org/mental/elder_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm#types

http://www.ncea.aoa.gov/NCEAroot/Main_Site/FAQ/Basics/Types_Of_Abuse.aspx

The only evidence of Elder Abuse (after reading that description) seems to be perpetrated by the three daughters! It really is appalling what went on there! That poor man deserved to live his last days with someone that loved him and made him happy! This whole situation infuriates me!

 

[Montjoy]

I feel like the sabbatical he requested was to take some time to reflect and to mourn his wife's passing.

I think it's entirely possible that Bob specifically wanted some time away from his daughters. Had he not fallen in love again and chosen to remarry, who knows if he would have started communication with his daughters again. It's not like Bob avoided social contact in that period of time. I don't believe that Bob had any responsibility in providing court documents for his daughters, or that handing those over required a 'meeting'. So far as I can guess (having only daughter R's statement on Bob scheduling it), the meeting may even have been initiated by his daughters.

 

[Montjoy]

So how did the daughters treat Fontelle, the woman their father credited with giving an old man hope for the future?

I think promoting the 'cold feet' argument was a real slap in the face, to start things off.

 

[believe09]

I get your point about the meeting Montjoy-it is possible they wanted to sit him down to make sure he was NOT going to add Fontelle to anything.

Know what I am wondering? Is if Bob gave anyone a power of attorney and whether it was limited or durable?

ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_attorney

 

[believe09]

Check this out-(now let's just assume for a moment that there is some kind of power of attorney in play in this case, which is not unusual with Trust documents)

http://www.scselfservice.org/probate/finan/powersatty.htm

1. Can my agent write or change my Will?
   
   No. Your agent can establish a trust, but cannot make or change your Will (Probate Code Section 4264).
2. Can my agent use my assets?
   
   No. Unless you specifically make a gift to him or her, it is against the law for your agent to make gifts to him or herself.
   
   If you are 65 or older, and your agent takes your property without authorization, s/he can be charged with elder abuse.
3. What if I create a Power of Attorney and later the Court appoints a conservator for my estate?
   
   Unless the Court or the conservator says otherwise, your agent can continue using the Power of Attorney to handle your affairs.
   
   Your agent must tell you and the conservator about everything s/he does in your name. (If your friends, relatives or officials are aware of problems with a Power of Attorney, they can file a petition with the Probate Department. The petition can ask the court to review what the agent has done. The Court can decide to investigate further.)
   

 

[dreamweaver]

If we are to follow the latest thinking on this thread, then the how and way that Robert Harrod disappeared is diabolical.

I can move away from my own long thought ideas about this case.
I can think of scenarios that have family involved.
I can think of ways that some members of Robert's Harrod's immediate
family could or would cover up a crime.

But to think that maybe all three daughters, a son in law, a grandson, may
have then conspired to loot Robert Harrod's hard earned money and
deny or conceal or obstruct any sort of justice for him,
leaves me nearly speechless.

IMO all the way around.

 

[ShowMe]

If we are to follow the latest thinking on this thread, then the how and way that Robert Harrod disappeared is diabolical.

I can move away from my own long thought ideas about this case.
I can think of scenarios that have family involved.
I can think of ways that some members of Robert's Harrod's immediate
family could or would cover up a crime.

But to think that maybe all three daughters, a son in law, a grandson, may
have then conspired to loot Robert Harrod's hard earned money and
deny or conceal or obstruct any sort of justice for him,
leaves me nearly speechless.

IMO all the way around.

IMO:
I'm sure the Police have figured out exactly who and where all these ideas and their motivation come from, and guess we will all just have to wait for the truth and facts when they solve the mystery.

Meanwhile, follow the cash flow, while Bob Harrod continues to be missing, and while the fiction continues to unfold... Nothing recently posted describes any current steps "actively" taken by Fontelle to find Bob.

That is so sad!

 

[believe09]

IMO:
I'm sure the Police have figured out exactly who and where all these ideas and their motivation come from, and guess we will all just have to wait for the truth and facts when they solve the mystery.

Meanwhile, follow the cash flow, while Bob Harrod continues to be missing, and while the fiction continues to unfold... Nothing recently posted describes any current steps "actively" taken by Fontelle to find Bob.

That is so sad!

You mean other than the media blitz that Fontelle staged over the last year?

You are so right though, ShowMe-following the money is going to lead to the answer. Undoubtedly most definitely it will be the motivation for this horror show...this event where there was no abduction by stranger and the hairdresser and her husband were definitively cleared from involvement. Whatsoever. The event where Mr. Harrod's wife was a thousand miles away as were her children. This event where at least Fontelle had the decency to call in a missing person's report on her husband after midnight PT when his own flesh and blood could not be bothered although he was not seen after 11AM...which is a moving target of a timeline. I am quite certain you join me in the outrage that this elderly man has been lambasted on the WWW by those who claimed they knew him best, yet have yet to even offer a reward from funds that they are controlling!

Can you even believe it?? I know I cannot.

 

[Montjoy]

IMO:
I'm sure the Police have figured out exactly who and where all these ideas and their motivation come from, and guess we will all just have to wait for the truth and facts when they solve the mystery.

Meanwhile, follow the cash flow, while Bob Harrod continues to be missing, and while the fiction continues to unfold... Nothing recently posted describes any current steps "actively" taken by Fontelle to find Bob.

That is so sad!

The motivation for these ideas is a search for the truth; who they come from are those searching for the truth; where they come from is an analysis of the facts.

I don't think many people could possibly hope for a sordid tale about greedy, loathsome family members who are responsible for their father's death and for subverting investigation afterward. I think everyone hopes that family life should be about love, trust, and security -- not about murdering someone because of a concern that family members will inherit less. I think many people would be relieved if their conscience and reading of the facts allowed them to believe something other than direct family responsibility in this case.

Fontelle has been entirely cooperative with the police. I'm not sure the same can be said for Bob's kin. (Oh, and what cash flow, other than that already documented?)