Recovered/Located CA - Cecil Knutson (dec'd), Dianna Bedwell (inj'd), Valley Ctr, 10 May 2015

[JerseyGirl]

Between Friday, May 8 and Wednesday, May 13, five traffic collisions were reported around Valley Center.

http://www.valleycenter.com/Article...h-for-missing-couple-and-other-accidents.html

 

[coolguy]

Kris, Paul's daughter, is the adm. of Paul N Dianna. Kris said, "Julie, from Team Amber" is who got that tip about the "gift shop". Kris and Robert said that sighting has NOT been confirmed. Also, the reason for two ******** accounts was because the original one was created for a reward, and could not be used for anything except that. It was after days of searching, and Robert's fuel alone adding up to $700, that the "expense" was created. The children of Dianna and Paul are in dire need of help, in order to keep searching for their parents. They have been given the link to your site, and your map. They are extremely thankful, and asked that you all please continue in the search.

 

[GigTu]

Kris, Paul's daughter, is the adm. of Paul N Dianna. Kris said, "Julie, from Team Amber" is who got that tip about the "gift shop". Kris and Robert said that sighting has NOT been confirmed. Also, the reason for two ******** accounts was because the original one was created for a reward, and could not be used for anything except that. It was after days of searching, and Robert's fuel alone adding up to $700, that the "expense" was created. The children of Dianna and Paul are in dire need of help, in order to keep searching for their parents. They have been given the link to your site, and your map. They are extremely thankful, and asked that you all please continue in the search.

Thank you, coolguy. Welcome in. We very very much appreciate your input.

 

[MyeKah]

His phone pinged one time off the Deer Springs cell tower and then never pinged again after that. The GPS system installed in their car is not picking up any kind of signal either. If they were down at the bottom of a ravine or some other kind of steep embankment, it might help explain why there was a loss of cell phone signal. When I initially heard about this, my first reaction was that they had driven off into water, which would go a long way in explaining why all the electronics basically quit working at the same time. After reviewing maps and listening to the locals describe that area however, it seems that driving into a large body of water is almost out of the question. All that would basically be left are creek beds and streams, and I don't know how many of those around there would have enough water in them to submerge a car, probably not many.

The creek beds we have here are all dry as a bone. California is in a big drout.
All the lakes around here have shrank. Wholford has water but it's far away from the road unless you drive into a parking lot. Same with Henshw. There the closest area to the road is accessed by a parking lot, but even then you need to walk a bit on a "beach area".
The only place that I can think of with water by the road would be by the coast which is 20 miles the wrong way. There are lagoons n stuff that come inland from the ocean. But there would be no reason to go out there as it was the opposite direction from the desert.

 

[Tssiemer]

Could a fire cause the electronics to go out like water would?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GigTu]

Where there's fire, there's smoke.

 

[FindHG]

Searching that many miles of highway without any idea which way they may have gone is going to take a lot of time. I don't know that they are going to be able to find them by just driving up and down the road looking left and right. They may be down in a hole or buried in trees and brush to the point that their vehicle is almost unrecognizable.

Here are some images of vehicles that have run down into ravines for various reasons. In the majority of cases, people SAW the accident as it happened or shortly thereafter, but not all. One lady was trapped in her vehicle for 8 days, upside down and injured, but was alive when rescued. Another young male was trapped in his car for a day or two, but was located by the pings on his phone.

View attachment 75060
in this image, the vehicle is upside down. If searching from the air, and due to the it's color, it almost blends in with the rocks around it. I could see how they might miss this on the first couple of passes or if viewing it from a distance. This looks more like arizona than it does california, but you get the idea.

View attachment 75061
don't know where this happened exactly, but guessing california by the terrain.

View attachment 75062
drove off the road and landed upside down below. As you can see, traffic driving by on the road above may not ever see this vehicle. You would literally have to peer over the edge of the cliff to see it lying below.

View attachment 75063
i don't know the story behind this one, but i imagine they needed a jib crane to get it out of there.

View attachment 75064
another vehicle, partially concealed by brush and trees. This could be another one of those places where the accident is literally right on the side of the road, but unless you go over to the shoulder and peer down, you may never see it.

​

View attachment 75055
That's what I would call being down in a hole.

View attachment 75056
The car was almost completely concealed by brush.......almost.

View attachment 75057
This car drove off a drop off and landed in a ravine below.

View attachment 75058
Another one where the car was almost concealed. It's going to be hard to see that from the air.

View attachment 75059
This car left the road, went down an embankment and rolled.​

*

Like a 4 D idea of it, thank you, steelman, for taking the time to post these images and to explain. It is extremely good to see, to know what's possible.


*respectfully reformatted

 

[FindHG]

updated 29 min

Their possible route

https://www.facebook.com/MissingPaulandDianna/posts/987661024591283

 

[FindHG]

Kris, Paul's daughter, is the adm. of Paul N Dianna. Kris said, "Julie, from Team Amber" is who got that tip about the "gift shop". Kris and Robert said that sighting has NOT been confirmed. Also, the reason for two ******** accounts was because the original one was created for a reward, and could not be used for anything except that. It was after days of searching, and Robert's fuel alone adding up to $700, that the "expense" was created. The children of Dianna and Paul are in dire need of help, in order to keep searching for their parents. They have been given the link to your site, and your map. They are extremely thankful, and asked that you all please continue in the search.

Very coolguy! Thank you for joining WS and for the direct word back from them.

:welcome4:​

Here's hoping more people know to look this weekend. I noticed a few rock climbing, hiking and conservation groups, some based out San Deigo, in the area. They may want to reach out to them.

 

[Forager]

The majority of these pictures are file photos from various media sources. A few of them had descriptions along with the photos, but most didn't. I would imagine in probably 90% of them there was a witness to the accident that reported it right after it happened. In some cases, the person in the car may have dialed 911 themselves.

The problem we have with Paul and Dianne's case is that apparently nobody witnessed what became of them OR their car. The main ongoing theory is that they had a traffic accident that wasn't seen by anybody. I posted these pictures in an attempt to show various conditions in which their car may have left the road and not be easily visible to passing traffic.

His phone pinged one time off the Deer Springs cell tower and then never pinged again after that. The GPS system installed in their car is not picking up any kind of signal either. If they were down at the bottom of a ravine or some other kind of steep embankment, it might help explain why there was a loss of cell phone signal. When I initially heard about this, my first reaction was that they had driven off into water, which would go a long way in explaining why all the electronics basically quit working at the same time. After reviewing maps and listening to the locals describe that area however, it seems that driving into a large body of water is almost out of the question. All that would basically be left are creek beds and streams, and I don't know how many of those around there would have enough water in them to submerge a car, probably not many.

Those pictures were fascinating, thank you.

Are searchers able to fly around with the type of transceiver used in a cell phone tower and catch pings from a cell phone in the 'shadow' of the walls of a ravine?

 

[MyeKah]

updated 29 min

Their possible route

https://www.facebook.com/MissingPaulandDianna/posts/987661024591283

If you look at all 3 of those routes they all contain the roads I suggested on steelmans map. Old Casle/Lilac, Pala/Temecula Rd and Highway 76 through the La Jolla ind Res.

If that is the route and estimating 15 mins out. I'd check between the grade to La Jolla Indian reservation and Santa Isibell on highway 76.
That whole stretch has no cell phone service for 20-30mins. and 15 mins would put them there. There is Palomar Mountain on one side and high hills on the other. It's possible they may block GPS signals just as they block cellphone signals.
I'm feeling that or Pala Temecula rd.

 

[FindHG]

If you look at all 3 of those routes they all contain the roads I suggested on steelmans map. Old Casle/Lilac, Pala/Temecula Rd and Highway 76 through the La Jolla ind Res.

If that is the route and estemating i5 mins out. I'd check between the grade to La Jolla Indian reservation and Santa Isibell on highway 76.
That whole stretch has no cell phone service for 20-30 and 15 mins would put them there. I'm feeling that or Pala Temecula rd.

Thank you. The lack of cell phone connection sounds within the right time range. It's kind of you to consider these areas and to post the various options. Very much appreciated.

https://www.facebook.com/MissingPaulandDianna?fref=nf

Has there been any more local coverage?

 

[GigTu]

Those pictures were fascinating, thank you.

Are searchers able to fly around with the type of transceiver used in a cell phone tower and catch pings from a cell phone in the 'shadow' of the walls of a ravine?

i don't think planes can get that low, but drones can. Certainly they can be equipped with transmitters and receivers for SAR efforts, right?

 

[MyeKah]

Thank you. The lack of cell phone connection sounds within the right time range. It's kind of you to consider these areas and to post the various options. Very much appreciated.

https://www.facebook.com/MissingPaulandDianna?fref=nf

Has there been any more local coverage?

Honestly I don't watch the news on TV so I can't say for sure on TV. But as far as the local news websites and newspaper website there has been nothing. I do expect the local valley center paper to have something this week because they are 2 weeks behind.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Makes you wonder just how many missing people/cars have ended up hidden by trees or down ravines, without anyone ever knowing what happened. Must be loads in a huge place like America, I couldn't even hazard a guess but I reckon there must be a fair few Websleuths cases that ended this way.

 

[steelman]

updated 29 min

Their possible route

https://www.facebook.com/MissingPaulandDianna/posts/987661024591283

After looking at the map that was posted by the family, I see that Highway 76 is definitely included. I've had a bad feeling about that road all along, the reason being because it would have much less traffic on it than the roads closer to the casino. There are a lot of roads in Arizona that lead to and through indian reservations that I have driven myself. The majority of them are pretty desolate and lightly traveled. You may drive 4 or 5 miles down the road before you pass a car coming from the opposite direction, and then you may go another 4 or 5 miles before you see another one.

Whatever happened to them, apparently it wasn't witnessed by anyone. With that in mind, the more desolate, curvy, and lightly traveled the road is, the higher likelihood that an accident could have happened without it being observed.
Of all the 3 roads shown on the map, I would think Highway 76 would be the top candidate.

Of course, the huge flaw in my theory is that Paul's phone pinged off the Deer Springs tower, and not the one at Pauma Valley, which is literally right next to the highway 76 turn-off. If that is the route they took, I would think that his phone signal would have been bouncing off that tower like a ping pong ball. To my knowledge, no phone ping was ever registered coming from the tower at Pauma Valley.

 

[FindHG]

Honestly I don't watch the news on TV so I can't say for sure on TV. But as far as the local news websites and newspaper website there has been nothing. I do expect the local valley center paper to have something this week because they are 2 weeks behind.

Thank you again, MyeKah, for the local information. You're great.

 

[FindHG]

After looking at the map that was posted by the family, I see that Highway 76 is definitely included. I've had a bad feeling about that road all along, the reason being because it would have much less traffic on it than the roads closer to the casino. There are a lot of roads in Arizona that lead to and through indian reservations that I have driven myself. The majority of them are pretty desolate and lightly traveled. You may drive 4 or 5 miles down the road before you pass a car coming from the opposite direction, and then you may go another 4 or 5 miles before you see another one.

Whatever happened to them, apparently it wasn't witnessed by anyone. With that in mind, the more desolate, curvy, and lightly traveled the road is, the higher likelihood that an accident could have happened without it being observed.
Of all the 3 roads shown on the map, I would think Highway 76 would be the top candidate.

Of course, the huge flaw in my theory is that Paul's phone pinged off the Deer Springs tower, and not the one at Pauma Valley, which is literally right next to the highway 76 turn-off. If that is the route they took, I would think that his phone signal would have been bouncing off that tower like a ping pong ball. To my knowledge, no phone ping was ever registered coming from the tower at Pauma Valley.

That sounds so well reasoned, steelman. I completely agree with your reasoning as well about their accident being someplace that was fairly isolated and not as frequently traveled or just enough around a bend that would make it unnoticeable very quickly. Avoiding traffic based on knowledge of local short cuts as they did travel there often enough may factor in too.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Interesting ...

Sheriff's Blotter May 10

• A 25-year-old victim at Harrah's Resort Southern California around 5 p.m. reported the theft of a vehicle license plate.

• Around 8 p.m. Dianna Knutson-Bedwell, 68 and Cecil Knutson were reported missing at Valley View Casino.

http://www.valleycenter.com/Article....113122-Sheriffs-Blotter-May-7-to-May-13.html

although we do know the couple went missing in Valley View at 2:00 p.m. and were rumored to have stopped in Rincon, which just happened to have a license plate stolen at 5:00 p.m. just sayin....

although I believe they were in an accident in the brush or off a cliff, I just wanted to point this out .... and, they were reported missing at 8:00pm.

 

[Aynia]

Interesting ...


http://www.valleycenter.com/Article....113122-Sheriffs-Blotter-May-7-to-May-13.html

although we do know the couple went missing in Valley View at 2:00 p.m. and were rumored to have stopped in Rincon, which just happened to have a license plate stolen at 5:00 p.m. just sayin....

although I believe they were in an accident in the brush or off a cliff, I just wanted to point this out.

This is scary but fits with the theory I have that a 3rd party is involved.