CA - Chelsea King (17) Rancho Bernardo (north San Diego County) #3

[SusanB]

So clothing from Amber has been found???Where??

 

[TravelingBug]

passionflower, I posed a question on the Amber astro forum about a map I think is yours or TB's. The question is about an orange dotted line near Lake Wohlford. Can you tell me what that line is?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96870&page=2

That was mine and it was the general area where the crime scene tape was up on Tuesday. I've removed it from my linked map now and kept only the relevant things, since the tape is now down.

There is still an orange trail on my map which shows the canyon route JAG likely used if he was on foot.

 

[TravelingBug]

where would i access that trail? ive lived in san diego for 21 years and have actually never walked those trails! i guess if i wanted to go on that trail, where would i enter from?

You can access it from about four-five places, though the official trail would begin near the RB Community Park many people start in the back and do part of it back there.

The end of Moon Song Court, at Poblado between Moon Song and Smokesignal, the next neighborhood sort of south west of Legends (where Moon Song is) at Harvest Dance and Sunwalk type area, you can access it from even further back more in the 4S area, and then the primary area from the RB Community Park where Chelsea began.

The official trail loop begins at the park.

 

[TravelingBug]

Have you been working on a timeline TravelingBug? Your map is great but I would like to see a TimeLine it might make this whole thing easier to follow as I know alot of people didnt read thread 1 and thread 2 and same ole questions keep reappearing time and time again.

Almost done with the time line calendar.

Give me about 20 minutes and I'll have it for ya!

 

[TheMentalist]

How did they not find her until Tuesday if they were right there on Friday? that is confusing to me...were they only looking at surface and not looking closely until some days had passed? I am picturing her body basically surrounded by LE for 3 days before they noticed the ground had been disturbed. I would have thought since they found the shoe, they would have searched that area very thoroughly right then?

My guess would be they had a systematic approach to searching where they went area by area in such an order to preserve evidence ...to search here search there could of disturbed the chain of evidence and not lead to a final conclusion or finding of a body. But I think that would be a great question for member Sarx as I believe he was in the search group.

 

[blossomfish]

So clothing from Amber has been found???Where??

http://nctimes.com/news/local/poway/article_9da746ad-ab04-532b-9f68-03d7025d7206.html

As far as I have read, nothing specific has been found. However, the attached article mentions the following about Amber's case:

"We're looking at anything that could be similar and at every lead we have ever had," said Lt. Craig Carter, a spokesman for the Escondido Police Department.

Some new information has come since Gardner's arrest, Carter said Thursday, declining to be more specific.

So we will have to wait and see.

 

[TheMentalist]

article about gun involved with another girl that I heard on HLN

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/cops-link...ed-killer-linked-abductions/story?id=10012155

This article shows the conflicting description of JAG as: The girl said the man who tried to abduct her was 30-35 years old, with brown hair, a fair skin complexion with a blonde crew cut.

The sketch is excellent tho...he certainly left it ingrained in her memory to recall so much detail... and a great sketch artist to be able to interpret her description and come up with such a likeness to JAG

 

[Tink56]

LOTS of information....JAG had a gold Pontiac until it was recently crashed. He drives girlfriend's (that's right...) black Honda Civic.

JAG had convinced relatives that the 2000 incident wasn't "true..." Listen to JAG'S logic????

Here's the link to the interview.

http://www.kfi640.com/mediaplayer/?...demand&item=17950831&feed_name=JohnandKen.xml

 

[TravelingBug]

Ok, here's a preliminary case/incident timeline. What else should I add (I'll try to go in and add specific times, because I think there is a trend and it'll be helpful to track those)

Chelsea King (and related possible JAG incidents) Case Timeline


January 2008 - JAG registers as an RSO in Escondido (some gaps between this and January 7, 2010)

February 13, 2009 - Amber Dubois goes missing in Escondido (7:10 am) - (Escondido)

Fall 2009 - Incident of stalking at Jesmond Dene Park Escondido - reported with partial car plates to EPD - gold coloured car (Escondido)

September 24, 2009 - Attempted abduction in Wildomar/Lake Elsinore - black sedan (Lake Elsinore/Wildomar)

September 30, 2009 - Attempted abduction in Wildomar/Lake Elsinore area - black sedan (Lake Elsinore/Wildomar)

October 14, 2009 - Attempted abductionin Lake Elsinore (6 am) - black sedan (Lake Elsinore)

October 28, 2009 - Attempted kidnapping in Lake Elsinore - description and sketch match JAG (Lake Elsinore)

November 4, 2009 - Attempted kidnapping in Ramona (15 minutes from RB) - description of suspect matches JAG - black sedan (Ramona)

December 27, 2009 - Attack/attempted rape or kidnapping on Candice M in Rancho Bernado in the Westwood/Lake Hodges area (Rancho Bernardo)

January 7, 2010 - JAG changes his RSO address from Escondido to Lake Elsinore

February 25, 2010 - Stalking/attempted kidnapping near Bernardo Heights Middle School (Rancho Bernardo) - black sedan

February 25, 2010 - Chelsea King raped/killed in the south Lake Hodges/Westwood area (Rancho Bernardo)

February 28, 2010 - JAG arrested on the north side of Lake Hodges about 4 pm (Escondido)

March 2, 2010 - Chelsea King's body found on the south side of Lake Hodges near Westwood (Rancho Bernardo)

March 3, 2010 - JAG arraignment on murder with special circumstances and rape of Chelsea King

March 9, 2010 - JAG court - Status Hearing

March 18, 2010 - JAG court - Preliminary Hearing

 

[TravelingBug]

LOTS of information....JAG had a gold Pontiac until it was recently crashed. He drives girlfriend's (that's right...) black Honda Civic.

JAG had convinced relatives that the 2000 incident wasn't "true..." Listen to JAG'S logic????

Here's the link to the interview.

http://www.kfi640.com/mediaplayer/?...demand&item=17950831&feed_name=JohnandKen.xml

:woohoo: Good confirmation.

Both of those are HUGE since we have repeated incidents involving both a gold sedan and a black sedan!

 

[Tink56]

So clothing from Amber has been found???Where??

Don't know "what" has been found "where" but the hints of progress are beginning to appear from several sources, including the interview on KFI.

LE has been searching all the places to which JAG had access including the RB homes, Escondido, and Lake Elsinore.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Here's the problem..

since there are all these psychotropic meds, they closed the mental hospitals in the 70's..and we now have all these mentally ill people who are out and about, and even getting a check, and many don't want to take their "meds"....

there is no one and nothing going to make them take the medication

I had neighbors with a mentally ill 30 something son who was off his meds, drank, did drugs..and terrorized everyone, beat up his dad etc....cops there various times...
baker act him and a few days later he is out

what can these parents do?? I would personally not want to get JAG and his big neck angry ....unless you knew you could keep him locked up....and they can't

I bet if they had called LE...they would have done nothing...other than "interview" Jag and that would set him off on them

these people are an ongoing responsibilty...I know people get mad when I don't seem to be all hearts and flowers about the mentally ill...sorry I am not

and I speak from experience...an uncle who was in and out of mental institutions in the 60's etc back when families could call and put someone away for months at a time...

sad for him but good for us...my uncle was scary when he was out and drinking and back then they didn't have all these meds, it would take them months to stabilize him

He would get out...and be "ok" for a while..then he would go off again and they would lock him up. He had some various jail times too. I remember cops at my grandmother's house to pick him up when he was on a rampage and remember hiding with my grandmother...not fun. I am glad we had mental hospitals back then

I am not a "victim"...my uncle never molested me or anything but he was scary...once he started swinging me around and around and I was scared and my dad had to fight him to make him stop!

but then again...back then people could simply call up the hospital and/cops and bam....back in the mental hospital...sigh of relief

now..family members are stuck with people like JAG....like my neighbors were stuck with their son

letting all these people run around "off their meds" is getting ridiculous...maybe they should have to take a weekly "blood test" to check their med levels in order to get their disability check and/or satisfy lifelong parole if they have a criminal conviction

Instead of blaming the parents who may be afraid of him...why not blame the system that let this monster loose?? the courts...the LE who didn't recognize how serious the jogger attack was...the LE who didn't find Amber's killer
blame the system that let JAG out....

if someone like his family or girlfriend "called up" and tried to have him arrested I bet nothing would have happened other than to make that scary big necked guy mad....

A predatory violent sex offender like Jag should have been locked up for good first time....put him in a hospital for criminally insane...or in a regular prison..I really don't care

 

[pugpugpug]

LOTS of information....JAG had a gold Pontiac until it was recently crashed. He drives girlfriend's (that's right...) black Honda Civic.

JAG had convinced relatives that the 2000 incident wasn't "true..." Listen to JAG'S logic????

Here's the link to the interview.

http://www.kfi640.com/mediaplayer/?...demand&item=17950831&feed_name=JohnandKen.xml

girlfriend. Girlfriend. GIRLFRIEND. I don't even... I... oi.

His parents/relatives must have really been in denial.

 

[PKitty]

"December 27, 2009 - Attack/attempted rape or kidnapping on Candice M in Rancho Bernado in the Westwood/Lake Hodges area (Rancho Bernardo)"

TB - news reports Candice M has ID'd JAG from photos. I heard it only took her a few seconds to ID him.

 

[LogicalMinds]

This is a great article...I really agree with this doctor

read the whole thing here>>>

http://www.10news.com/news/22722387/detail.html

A local psychiatrist told 10News sex offender John Gardner should have never been let out of state custody based on the evaluation that was performed on him following a sexual assault on a 13-year-old girl back in 2000.

Dr. Mark Kalish said he felt there was no effort to have Gardner, linked to the disappearance of Poway teen Chelsea King, civilly committed under the mentally disordered sex offender statutes.

Kalish told 10News the statutes would have kept Gardner in a state mental hospital until psychiatrists and the court determined it was safe for him to return to the public.

 

[TheMentalist]

Chelsea's parents had a brief interview on Larry King Live tonight and Larry asked if LE has told them the cause of death. They both nodded and said, "yes" they know how she died!

So the parents have been informed of the cause of death. The announcement that the there won't be a positive identification until the March 18th hearing is a big clue that there's a reason for withholding this from the public. I think it revolves around the investigation into other missing girls. Typically police withhold information that only the perp knows, and I wonder if that figures into this?

Another reason for the tight lip is that there are some folks...CRAZY in my opinion who go around confessing to everything. If they had those details they could cast doubt on the case they have against JAG. You are probably wondering why would someone do this...answer I dont know but they do it all the time. I can only guess it is to get attention.

 

[SusanB]

I am thinking that there is now physical evidence to link him to Amber, and that is influencing the announcement of Chlesea's body ID. They may be using that evidence to prove JAG murdered Amber in 2009, which would pre-date Chelsea. That would make a difference in the charges LE brings upon him.

 

[PKitty]

It might be useful to add the day of the week to Travel Bug's calendar. I check and you have nothing on a Mon or Tues, 4 Wed's, 2 Thurs', and Dec 27 Sun, which is the holiday weekend so is probably out of the equation

 

[TheMentalist]

He looked like a nice clean cut guy in HS. Thanks for posting this.

You know ever since someone posted this high school pic this photo keeps haunting me. Could I of seen this person, knew this person, or someone else that knew this person? Im still trying to force recall on this pic in my mind but I think I have seen JAG. I live and work in LA County but I had frequented Riverside County alot...I just wish I could remember. If it comes to me I will let you all know but for right now it is a blank.

 

[TravelingBug]

It might be useful to add the day of the week to Travel Bug's calendar. I check and you have nothing on a Mon or Tues, 4 Wed's, 2 Thurs', and Dec 27 Sun, which is the holiday weekend so is probably out of the equation

Added.

What else?