CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[cityslick]

My heart hurts for the innocent lives lost in this tragedy. But that does not give LE(the ones that are alive are not victims)the right to act like (never mind). They are just like us, they are not special, they are trained to do a job like other people that work. It does not take a rocket scientist to be LE. They make mistakes and get caught at wrong doing just like everybody else.

My father was a cop and some of the stories he related to me after years had past, about coworkers were eye opening to say the least. jmo

The conspiracies are going to come out of the woodwork in this case. Everyone remembers Waco and how that whole thing went down. I agree that just because they are LE does not give them carte blanche to do anything they want.

That being said, I think LE was justified in how this all went down. This guy shot and killed people. He was shooting at them from the cabin. I would be more (hate to use the word sympathetic) aware of his cause if this was one of those instances where he was going after corrupt cops but he targeted innocent people, which just makes him a cold blooded killer. There is a section of society that will root for the vigilante in certain instances but I don't think this is one of them.

 

[wfgodot]

'We really thought it could be the end': Couple relive terror at being held hostage by killer ex-cop
who tied them up and stuffed towels in their mouths as new pictures reveal ferocity of cabin shoot-out (Daily Mail)

 

[Elley Mae]

The conspiracies are going to come out of the woodwork in this case. Everyone remembers Waco and how that whole thing went down. I agree that just because they are LE does not give them carte blanche to do anything they want.

That being said, I think LE was justified in how this all went down. This guy shot and killed people. He was shooting at them from the cabin. I would be more (hate to use the word sympathetic) aware of his cause if this was one of those instances where he was going after corrupt cops but he targeted innocent people, which just makes him a cold blooded killer. There is a section of society that will root for the vigilante in certain instances but I don't think this is one of them.

I agree, as soon as it was found out that he was responsible for the first two murders, Monica Quan and Keith Lawence, then reading the manifesto he lost me.

About the victims.
http://newsone.com/2226079/chris-dorner-victims/

 

[popsicle]

His service record doesn't include any combat. No service in a war zone.
http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/us-navy-releases-records-of-triple-shooting-suspect-christopher-dorner02072013

Iraq Campaign Medal

Awarded to any member of the U.S. military who performed duty within the borders of Iraq (or its territorial waters) for a period of thirty consecutive days or sixty non-consecutive days. Personnel who engaged in combat with an enemy force, or personnel wounded in combat or wounded as a result of a terrorist attack within Iraq received the Iraq Campaign Medal regardless of the number of days spent within the country.

Global War on Terrorism Service Medal

A military service member must perform duty in a designated anti-terrorism operation for a period of either 30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive days of duty. For those who were engaged in combat, killed, or wounded in the line of duty the time requirement is waived. Operations for which the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal is authorized, include the active military campaigns of Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Noble Eagle, and Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Not listed in the military records are any military schools that Dorner attended. In his manifesto he wrote, “I will utilize every tool within INT collections that I learned from NMITC in Dam Neck.” NMITC is the acronym for the Navy and Marine Corps Intelligence Center located in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

According to the NMITC website, “The mission of the Center for Information Dominance, is to deliver full spectrum Cyber Information Warfare, and Intelligence Training to achieve decision superiority.” It was founded in 1986 at Naval Air Station Oceana at the Dam Neck Annex about 5 miles south of Virginia Beach.

Under his service assignments there are also two gaps of time:

30 May 2007 – 6 Mar 2009: Dorner’s military assignment is undisclosed in information released by U.S. Navy.

29 Feb 2006 – 5 July 2006: Dorner’s military assignment is undisclosed in information released by U.S. Navy.

I also found information regarding the Coastal Riverine Group that he was a part of when he went to Bahrain.

http://www.public.navy.mil/necc/hq/PublishingImages/NECC%20fact%20sheets/NECC_CRF_FactSheet2012.pdf

My point is only that the military records released is not the complete record of his military career. imo

 

[Trident]

My heart hurts for the innocent lives lost in this tragedy. But that does not give LE(the ones that are alive are not victims)the right to act like (never mind). They are just like us, they are not special, they are trained to do a job like other people that work. It does not take a rocket scientist to be LE. They make mistakes and get caught at wrong doing just like everybody else.

My father was a cop and some of the stories he related to me after years had past, about coworkers were eye opening to say the least. jmo

EXACTLY, and thank you. My uncle was a detective, after going through the ranks. Some of his stories made me sick to my stomach, and not always at the perp.

 

[popsicle]

I am not understanding any questioning of LE's actions the day Dorner was taken down. They did what they thought they had to do. They did what was right. This is not a case of a LEO or a soldier in wartime, executing an innocent person. We know that has and does happen just not in this case. I will always be on the side of right....period. jmo

 

[SCHMAE]

Probably what some are calling ' empathy' in NOT killing SOME civilians is actually self preservation . At that point he's in hiding and NOT wanting to draw attention to himself and leaving a trail of bodies would do just that. I would say it' not empathy at all but rather trying to keep a low profile and quiet so he could go undetected long enough to go KILL more people !

 

[Sonya610]

Probably what some are calling ' empathy' in NOT killing SOME civilians is actually self preservation . At that point he's in hiding and NOT wanting to draw attention to himself and leaving a trail of bodies would do just that. I would say it' not empathy at all but rather trying to keep a low profile and quiet so he could go undetected long enough to go KILL more people !

When he carjacked the truck then yeah, shooting the driver would have freaked out all of the LE in earshot (and at that point they weren't even sure if he was still in Big Bear).

The couple in the condo was another matter, he obviously did not want to kill them as he could have done it without attracting attention once they were tied up.

 

[wfgodot]

Another from DM.

NO ONE will get $1.2m reward for leading cops to Dorner because he wasn't 'arrested or convicted'

Nice picture also of Jim Heltebrake and his Dalmatian, Suni.

 

[keeponsearching]

Another from DM.

NO ONE will get $1.2m reward for leading cops to Dorner because he wasn't 'arrested or convicted'

In a way he was convicted, died.. Would that not count. He would of gone to prison and died there anyways.

 

[wfgodot]

Yes, this rewards thing can't help but seem a bit bait-and-switch.

And wow, I go to bed last night thinking "two housecleaners - a mother and her daughter" and wake up and it's....Jim and Karen Reynolds?? I really must drink more Mountain Dew and stay up 24 hours a day!

 

[Trident]

Another from DM.

NO ONE will get $1.2m reward for leading cops to Dorner because he wasn't 'arrested or convicted'

Nice picture also of Jim Heltebrake and his Dalmatian, Suni.

Well, the burners saved somebody or something a lot of money.

 

[jjenny]

Another from DM.

NO ONE will get $1.2m reward for leading cops to Dorner because he wasn't 'arrested or convicted'

Nice picture also of Jim Heltebrake and his Dalmatian, Suni.

It was rather obvious that Dorner wasn't going to be arrested/convicted at the time offer of a reward was made. So I guess it was a risk free reward.

 

[jjenny]

Well, the burners saved somebody or something a lot of money.

What does this have to do with burners? Burners are tear gas canisters. It was obvious Dorner was not going to be captured and convicted from the start.
Dorner even knew he was going to be captured alive. And frankly it appears Dorner might have killed himself (since they are talking about hearing a shot from inside the cabin).

 

[wfgodot]

Well, the burners saved somebody or something a lot of money.

(Nodding head earnestly.)

 

[21merc7]

I agree jjenny. Dorner made it very clear in his manifesto that he posted a day or 2 after killing the first victims/the couple, that this was going to be suicide by cop or by his own hand. He knew what would happen to him if he didn't die, and he wasn't going to go there.

 

[wfgodot]

o/t but, btw, Happy Valentine's Day to all.

 

[21merc7]

o/t but, btw, Happy Valentine's Day to all.

Right back at ya'! :blowkiss:

 

[Gin]

Probably what some are calling ' empathy' in NOT killing SOME civilians is actually self preservation . At that point he's in hiding and NOT wanting to draw attention to himself and leaving a trail of bodies would do just that. I would say it' not empathy at all but rather trying to keep a low profile and quiet so he could go undetected long enough to go KILL more people !

Good points.
JMO-- more musings on his behavior, self preservation, garnering empathy, apparent motivation...

Any chance this could be some habitual splitting behaviors? Maybe he had some symptoms of borderline personality disorder?

Might what we have observed be a little window into what it was like to know him, work with him, have a relationship with him?

I think his whining essay, along with his (alleged) murder pattern add up to someone who's looking for sympathy and knows how to obtain it, even as he (allegedly) is killing in cold blood.

He seems skilled at leaving lots of turmoil in his wake, alive or dead.

 

[jjenny]

I agree jjenny. Dorner made it very clear in his manifesto that he posted a day or 2 after killing the first victims/the couple, that this was going to be suicide by cop or by his own hand. He knew what would happen to him if he didn't die, and he wasn't going to go there.

He was rather obvious he was not going to be convicted. So offering a large reward for conviction was pretty much risk free.