Still Missing CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4) Calif. City, *parents charged* 21 Dec 2020 #7

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SweetOne said:
The lawyers representing the adoptive parents charged with murder in the deaths of Orrin and Orson West are holding a news conference this afternoon. I can't find any video coverage though??

Defense counsel for Trezell and Jacqueline West to hold news conference
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Has anyone seen a link? Guess it's too much to hope they have confessed and are negotiating a plea bargain.

There is a motion hearing tomorrow morning-
03/08/2022, 08:30AM Metro Division - 1415 Truxtun CC MOTION

I think the motion is on the gag order isn't it? Interesting timing for this press conference.
 
LaborDayRN said:
I've learned something new today. I was always under the impression that you received those incentives while fostering but once a legal adoption was finalized most of the incentives stopped. Does this vary state to state? Thanks for sharing this info.
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we discussed it extensively upthread, it was established that if you adopt from foster care specifically in CA you can continue to receive incentives under certain circumstances. also, if you adopt siblings from foster care. there was a link to support it but its buried somewhere in here.
 
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ChatteringBirds said:
Could someone please summarize when it's over? I know that's asking a lot.
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I will attempt a summary

Three of the four defense attorneys for the two defendants appeared before cameras to gain some notoriety ( IMO )

They explained the difference between a Grand Jury indictment and a jury trial.

They will not talk about the details of the case now.

Their clients are innocent until proven guilty.

They also want and agree with the gag order.

They want a change of venue, because of the notoriety of this case.

All of their statements were made in English and Spanish.
 
LaborDayRN said:
I've learned something new today. I was always under the impression that you received those incentives while fostering but once a legal adoption was finalized most of the incentives stopped. Does this vary state to state? Thanks for sharing this info.
Click to expand...

Also referred to as Adoption Subsidy. This is to ensure that kids can remain in an environment that is working for everyone involved. If there is plenty of love & care & attention, and the only thing lacking is $$$, heck yeah let's provide the $$$ especially since it is only until the child is 18/emancipated.

IIRC, very useful in keeping sibling groups together.

Subsidy contracts in my state in the early 90's also could include things like tuition at community college.

jmho ymmv lrr
 
IMO, the children were removed from the home after TW's own admission that the missing boys allegedly left through an unlocked gate while he was collecting firewood, and the boys were sent outside to play while JW wrapped gifts inside. The couple demonstrated the remaining children were at risk.

What are grounds for CPS to remove a child in California?

How Does CPS Determine Child Removal?
  • Physical or sexual abuse by a family member.
  • Failure to protect the child from danger.
  • Failure to provide proper care and supervision for a child.
  • Failure to provide the child with necessary needs such as food, clothing, shelter, or medical treatment.
Courts Must Review Child Removal

Even if a caseworker honestly believes that a child must be removed from danger, CPS cannot just decide to take a child away. For a removal to be lawful, caseworkers must receive a court order. This can be done by providing sufficient proof to show the court that;

  • Without removal, there will be persistent danger of physical or sexual abuse at home
  • There is evidence that the child has been sexually abused
  • Allowing the child to return home will be contrary to the child’s welfare
If there is no court order, by the time of the removal, then it must be reviewed by the court within the next business day. If CPS is unable to obtain the court order within three days, they must return the child.

Unlawful Removal Of a Child

The U.S. Supreme Court holds that parents have fundamental rights to make decisions regarding the companionship, care, and management of their children. Under the Fourteenth Amendment, Familial Association Rights ensures that families are able to live together without governmental interference except in an emergency. Essentially, parents have the constitutional right to resist state invention in the family. Before the removal of a child, CPS is required to;

  • Conduct a reasonable investigation
  • Provide a reason to prove that a child is in imminent danger
  • Attempt to resolve the danger through alternative measures
  • Obtain a warrant before removing a child
It is unlawful to remove a child if CPS fails to meet these requirements.

CPS Guidelines For Child Removal in California - Pride Legal

Notice To Caregiver
Caregivers have the right to be given a minimum of seven-calendar day's written notice for termination of the placement and reasons for the termination of placement. The foster parent has the right to accept a verbal notice instead of a written notice.

Reference Manual of Policies and Procedures CHILD WELFARE SERVICES Division 31-440 FOSTER PARENT(S) NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS.

  • The foster parent(s) shall be given at least seven calendar days' advance written notice of intent to remove a child, and of the right to request a grievance review.
  • The exceptions to the seven-day notice will be:
    • The child is in immediate danger.
    • A signed waiver of notice has been obtained from the foster parent(s).
    • A court has ordered the child's removal.
    • Adverse licensing or approval actions have occurred that prohibit the foster parent(s) from continuing to provide services.
    • Removal of a voluntarily placed child is made or requested by the child's parent(s)/guardians.
    • The child is removed from an emergency placement
Unless the child is in immediate danger, he/she shall remain with the foster parent(s), pending decision of the county director, when removal is the basis for a complaint . (Reference31-020)

Removal Transition
 
In light of the information above and the grandmother’s statement I wonder if there’s an element of truth in there regarding the voluntary part. Could it be that other family members were assigned as foster/guardians and voluntarily made the decision in conjunction with LE because they had their own reasons for creating some distance from parents?

It may also just be the case that grandma was told this story by the parents and repeated it, of course. And it might simply be untrue in every respect.

Either way, I’m very glad it happened when it did. However it happened. Even if there was any sort of voluntary aspect I imagine that option may have disappeared rather quickly as investigations went on anyway.

Also thanks for summarising the presser folks.
 
Beans said:
In light of the information above and the grandmother’s statement I wonder if there’s an element of truth in there regarding the voluntary part. Could it be that other family members were assigned as foster/guardians and voluntarily made the decision in conjunction with LE because they had their own reasons for creating some distance from parents?

It may also just be the case that grandma was told this story by the parents and repeated it, of course. And it might simply be untrue in every respect.

Either way, I’m very glad it happened when it did. However it happened. Even if there was any sort of voluntary aspect I imagine that option may have disappeared rather quickly as investigations went on anyway.

Also thanks for summarising the presser folks.
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IIRC, the grandmother is also a licensed foster care provider. I don’t have a link but I’m sure it’s in the first or second thread.
 
AmandaReckonwith said:
The presser -IMO- was just some low life getting their faces in front of cameras using the murders of little boys.
Making a buck off their backs.
There is no defense.
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Sounds very likely to me. Big case, big opportunity. A whole presser to say not very much. If that’s their best strategy at the moment it’s perhaps quite revealing.
 
Updated: Mar 7, 2022 / 05:37 PM PST
Defense counsel for Trezell and Jacqueline West to hold news conference (kget.com)
[...]

Defense counsel for the adoptive parents of Orson and Orrin West accused District Attorney Cynthia Zimmer of misleading the public and preying on people’s emotions during her press conference last week.

“Statements that have been used by the Kern County District Attorney in her press conference tend to invoke a tidal wave of emotion toward finding guilt, whether substantiated or not, and this will taint a local jury pool and could deny our clients a chance at a fair trial,” said Timothy Hennessy, attorney for Trezell West. “It’s odd that the office held their press conference, made a series of comments which both mis-and-disinformed the public then the following day came and requested a gag order to stop the defense from having an ability to make similar comments.

“This action is disingenuous but may also cause a change of venue in the future. This is an election year and this case is serving as a compass to guide the DA to her path of reelection. However, now is the time when the misleading and theater end and the constitutional protections begin.”

The phrasing used by Zimmer — saying the grand jury was “convinced” and it “believed” — is not a legal standard used at trial, Hennessy said. He said the standard of proof at grand jury proceedings is much lower than the standard of being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt required at trial.

[...]
 
PommyMommy said:
Updated: Mar 7, 2022 / 05:37 PM PST
Defense counsel for Trezell and Jacqueline West to hold news conference (kget.com)
[...]

Defense counsel for the adoptive parents of Orson and Orrin West accused District Attorney Cynthia Zimmer of misleading the public and preying on people’s emotions during her press conference last week.

“Statements that have been used by the Kern County District Attorney in her press conference tend to invoke a tidal wave of emotion toward finding guilt, whether substantiated or not, and this will taint a local jury pool and could deny our clients a chance at a fair trial,” said Timothy Hennessy, attorney for Trezell West. “It’s odd that the office held their press conference, made a series of comments which both mis-and-disinformed the public then the following day came and requested a gag order to stop the defense from having an ability to make similar comments.

“This action is disingenuous but may also cause a change of venue in the future. This is an election year and this case is serving as a compass to guide the DA to her path of reelection. However, now is the time when the misleading and theater end and the constitutional protections begin.”

The phrasing used by Zimmer — saying the grand jury was “convinced” and it “believed” — is not a legal standard used at trial, Hennessy said. He said the standard of proof at grand jury proceedings is much lower than the standard of being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt required at trial.

[...]
Click to expand...
This defense team is annoying as all get out, and the hearings haven't even started yet...:rolleyes:

"Statements that have been used by the Kern County District Attorney in her press conference tend to invoke a tidal wave of emotion toward finding guilt,...."

Is it the prosecutor's fault that there is a 'tidal wave of emotion' unleashed? Or could it be because no one had seen these 2 precious boys for months, before they were allegedly killed by their so called parents?

"and requested a gag order to stop the defense from having an ability to make similar comments...."

Come on, let's be real. Gag order or not, the defense does not really have the ability 'to make similar comments' because it is a very different situation from the prosecution. I think the defense is relieved by the gag order, most likely.

"This is an election year and this case is serving as a compass to guide the DA to her path of reelection. "

Ok, here we go, time to make it about politics and the election, and claim it is the DA's fault that the public hates this couple so much. GMAFB

"However, now is the time when the misleading and theater end and the constitutional protections begin.”

Yah, right...let's call out the DA for being 'misleading' ---when this wonderful adoptive couple has been lying their evil butts off for a year and a half already.

And what about the children's rights? Did the time for their rights ever kick in?
 
My grandmother lives in Cal City & I have a cousin there also. Used to visit as a child & some times as an adult. I have been waiting for an arrest. Glad it has finally happened. These poor kiddos. I am under the impression that there is a lot of section 8 housing in this town- perhaps why JW&TW moved here?
 
katydid23 said:
This defense team is annoying as all get out, and the hearings haven't even started yet...:rolleyes:

"Statements that have been used by the Kern County District Attorney in her press conference tend to invoke a tidal wave of emotion toward finding guilt,...."

Is it the prosecutor's fault that there is a 'tidal wave of emotion' unleashed? Or could it be because no one had seen these 2 precious boys for months, before they were allegedly killed by their so called parents?

"and requested a gag order to stop the defense from having an ability to make similar comments...."

Come on, let's be real. Gag order or not, the defense does not really have the ability 'to make similar comments' because it is a very different situation from the prosecution. I think the defense is relieved by the gag order, most likely.

"This is an election year and this case is serving as a compass to guide the DA to her path of reelection. "

Ok, here we go, time to make it about politics and the election, and claim it is the DA's fault that the public hates this couple so much. GMAFB

"However, now is the time when the misleading and theater end and the constitutional protections begin.”

Yah, right...let's call out the DA for being 'misleading' ---when this wonderful adoptive couple has been lying their evil butts off for a year and a half already.

And what about the children's rights? Did the time for their rights ever kick in?
Click to expand...
TW’s lead attorney was painfully nervous. He seemed to be having a panic attack. It was hard to watch.

amateur opinion and speculation
 
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