GUILTY CA - Erin Corwin, 19, pregnant, Twentynine Palms, 28 June 2014 - #12

[SeeAlice]

My first 2 posts on Websleuths went over like lead balloons so I hesitate to post anything now. Having read here for years without posting, I am not sure if I am perceived as a troll or someone working for the defense or if my post was really that dumb. I am neither trying to troll tis thread nor am I friend, family, or employee of the defendant or his attorney. As for how dumb my posts were, only you can tell me that. Some kind of feedback besides silence would be greatly appreciated.

I should amend my earlier claim of reading along on every thread about this case. I tried to read every post but some days it was difficult to catch up. I would go to bed or be away for a day and there would be 15-20 pages of posts when I came back on! I did try though.

Enough about that and back to the case.
Has it been stated with any certainty that the entire crime occurred up at the mine shaft area? For example, is it possible she was bound & gagged or injured or immobilized immediately after getting into the vehicle with the perpetrator? An earlier post mentioning her thoughts during the 2 hour drive up to the mine got me wondering. I think even the most pleasant, quiet, non-confrontational person would have said something to complain, protest or question the need to travel so far in such harsh terrain to hunt or to "celebrate."

If any of my posts are out of line, please tell me so.

 

[TheCrankyChef]

I think the reason NL, and possibly the ranch owner, haven't been arrested is because one or both have agreed to turn state's evidence, or are in negotiations for such. NL seems like the kind of cat who'd waive spousal privilege in a heartbeat to save her own *advertiser censored*. JMO.

BBM by me. IM is going to a fine witness - yes, indeedy.

 

[Mrs. Gladden]

My first 2 posts on Websleuths went over like lead balloons so I hesitate to post anything now. Having read here for years without posting, I am not sure if I am perceived as a troll or someone working for the defense or if my post was really that dumb. I am neither trying to troll tis thread nor am I friend, family, or employee of the defendant or his attorney. As for how dumb my posts were, only you can tell me that. Some kind of feedback besides silence would be greatly appreciated.

I should amend my earlier claim of reading along on every thread about this case. I tried to read every post but some days it was difficult to catch up. I would go to bed or be away for a day and there would be 15-20 pages of posts when I came back on! I did try though.

Enough about that and back to the case.
Has it been stated with any certainty that the entire crime occurred up at the mine shaft area? For example, is it possible she was bound & gagged or injured or immobilized immediately after getting into the vehicle with the perpetrator? An earlier post mentioning her thoughts during the 2 hour drive up to the mine got me wondering. I think even the most pleasant, quiet, non-confrontational person would have said something to complain, protest or question the need to travel so far in such harsh terrain to hunt or to "celebrate."

If any of my posts are out of line, please tell me so.

First of all, I do not think your posts have been out of line nor do I suspect you of being a troll. : ) Your posts made me think about my own views of certain events. Thank you.

I've thought many times what that 2 hr drive must have been like. Even if Erin hated to travel long distances, it seems that she had agreed to go that day according to text messages to her friend in TN. All of us have questioned whether she had any fear that day, and all of us have questioned CL's actions during that drive knowing what he was planning. To me, the 'lying in wait' charge says that he waited until they were at the mine.

 

[Mrs. Gladden]

Sorry, I have no idea how I got it in my head it was CL. The scary part is I don't drink or do drugs, no excuse.

I wake up in my own world daily, but just to let you know, I'm President of that Club.

 

[2Hope4]

My first 2 posts on Websleuths went over like lead balloons so I hesitate to post anything now. Having read here for years without posting, I am not sure if I am perceived as a troll or someone working for the defense or if my post was really that dumb. I am neither trying to troll tis thread nor am I friend, family, or employee of the defendant or his attorney. As for how dumb my posts were, only you can tell me that. Some kind of feedback besides silence would be greatly appreciated.

I should amend my earlier claim of reading along on every thread about this case. I tried to read every post but some days it was difficult to catch up. I would go to bed or be away for a day and there would be 15-20 pages of posts when I came back on! I did try though.

Enough about that and back to the case.
Has it been stated with any certainty that the entire crime occurred up at the mine shaft area? For example, is it possible she was bound & gagged or injured or immobilized immediately after getting into the vehicle with the perpetrator? An earlier post mentioning her thoughts during the 2 hour drive up to the mine got me wondering. I think even the most pleasant, quiet, non-confrontational person would have said something to complain, protest or question the need to travel so far in such harsh terrain to hunt or to "celebrate."

If any of my posts are out of line, please tell me so.

:welcome: to websleuths!!
There's so many posts that it's impossible to reply to each one. Just because someone doesn't reply, please don't take offense. It doesn't mean your posts are being dismissed, or anything of the that sort. And there's times I get behind on a thread, and jump to the last few pages to try to catch up. So can miss posts that way as well. Your contributions, questions, opinions are just as important as the next member's.

We honestly don't know much about the trip, or anything that happened once dear Erin met with Chris. We know they planned to meet and they obviously did meet. Perhaps that 2hr trip wasn't unusual for them. They were having an affair, so very possible they were use to going where there wouldn't be as many people. We don't know. My heart truly wants to believe that Erin never realized her life was in danger. Whether we'll ever know otherwise, I'm thinking probably not.

In most of the cases I've followed, even if the perp pleads guilty, they still try to present themselves in the best light, leaving out lots of details that would make them look worse. In some rare cases, the perp does tell the story, again from their point of view, giving more details. Sometimes the details match evidence, sometimes they don't. BTK, Dennis Radar seemed to enjoy reliving each murder, and giving details. He was a serial murderer. In a more recent case, Randy Taylor was proven guilty of murder, yet states he is innocent even though he offered to give up his victim's body location in a plea that the state refused. Not sure how you know where the body is, but are innocent, but that's his story.

Many of the cases we never get all the holes filled. Questions still remain but only the murderer and the victim know the truth. We hope in each case that the evidence is clear enough and tells the victim's story enough to get a conviction. Sadly it's murderer that often holds the secrets even in their own death. Answers I'm sure the victim's family would often like to waterboard them to get.

:moo:

 

[truthbeknown]

You stated earlier that you were reading here initially to see if anything was being said by us that could compromise the investigation. You have referred to it again ^^^^^. Is that a major concern of Erin's family???

In the beginning it was a concern. The detectives were sharing a little with us and it was being shared more than it should have been. Then the detectives were asked not share anything with us. That way it could not be shared with someone that didn't need to know.

Do we want to know more details than what we have. absolutely. We will find out in due time. We will wait patiently until the time is right. We want justice for our Erin.

 

[truthbeknown]

Truthbeknown, I admire you for joining as a verified insider and being willing to discuss certain issues with us. I could never imagine the shoes your family must be walking in through all of this. All of us are here because we simply were touched in one way or the other by Erin. She will never be forgotten and I speak for many in that I am sure your family will remain in our prayers until we finally see the justice that Erin and baby Erin deserve! Could you clarify when the texts were sent to JT from Erin? Not a specific timeframe but like were they sent that Sat morning? Some rumors had it was a few days before and some said that morning so just wondering if that was able to be clarified without harming justice.

We don't know when the text were sent. I do know that JT and Erin sent text to each other multiple times a day, every day.

 

[truthbeknown]

First of all, I do not think your posts have been out of line nor do I suspect you of being a troll. : ) Your posts made me think about my own views of certain events. Thank you.

I've thought many times what that 2 hr drive must have been like. Even if Erin hated to travel long distances, it seems that she had agreed to go that day according to text messages to her friend in TN. All of us have questioned whether she had any fear that day, and all of us have questioned CL's actions during that drive knowing what he was planning. To me, the 'lying in wait' charge says that he waited until they were at the mine.

Erin didn't hate to travel long distances. She hated driving long distances

 

[maskedwoman]

It seems to me that IM was trying to discredit Erin, or make her look bad. Because IM not only said Erin was supposed to start at TSC, but didn't; but IM also said that bit about how none of the family checked on or inquired about the horse, even though Erin had already told IM she couldn't take the horse. So that begs the question: why did IM want to make Erin look bad? All of this is MOO.

I agree, and think it was to help her favorites, CL and NL. She has said so many contradictory things that one can't take anything she said at face value unless there is other evidence or testimony to support it. Like the Tractor Supply thing. What she said was so easily disproved, why bother to say it at all? Either IM is one of those people who, when her mouth engages, her brain goes into neutral - or - she was just flapping her gums saying whatever popped into her head simply to make anything she said worthless as testimony. I suspect the latter. However, I think she is wasting her time because they will still call her and make her testify to anything for which they have other testimony or evidence to support it.

Actually, now that I think about it after a few days away, I think she was so taken aback by what was unfolding around her, she told LE the truth when they took her statement. Then, reality began to set it, or NL raked her over the coals, or both, and she's flapped her jaws ever since, trying to un-do the damage she did to CL and NL's situation. But it is for naught. She can still be useful to the prosecution.

 

[maskedwoman]

That explains how come JC knew about the pregnancy. Since it's being reported that both men knew. I'm still trying to decide if I believe that CL did in fact know about it.

Eta: typo

Based on Erin's text to her friend, about CL's concerns, I think he must have known before the day he killed her.

 

[maskedwoman]

Isn't it up to CL whether she's allowed to testify against him or not? Or was I completely confused during that discussion (which is entirely likely). I got the impression it wasn't her choice, more his, which really kind of freaked me out.

ETA: discussion here, not anything I saw/heard elsewhere.

Okay, don't shoot me for this, because I know what I'm about to refer to is fiction: In an episode of The Closer, a wife killed her husband's divorce lawyer. The lawyer discovered her husband was growing marijuana on the side and the wife realized she wouldn't get anything in the divorce, because everything they owned would have been confiscated. When they realized they planned and executed the murder together, she testified against her husband to get a shorter sentence so she could eventually be with their daughter. So, I'm still very confused about spousal privilege in California.

In any event, if they charge NL, I have been wondering if CL and NL might waive privilege and try for a package plea for their daughter's sake.

 

[Dallen]

My first 2 posts on Websleuths went over like lead balloons so I hesitate to post anything now. Having read here for years without posting, I am not sure if I am perceived as a troll or someone working for the defense or if my post was really that dumb. I am neither trying to troll tis thread nor am I friend, family, or employee of the defendant or his attorney. As for how dumb my posts were, only you can tell me that. Some kind of feedback besides silence would be greatly appreciated.

I should amend my earlier claim of reading along on every thread about this case. I tried to read every post but some days it was difficult to catch up. I would go to bed or be away for a day and there would be 15-20 pages of posts when I came back on! I did try though.

Enough about that and back to the case.
Has it been stated with any certainty that the entire crime occurred up at the mine shaft area? For example, is it possible she was bound & gagged or injured or immobilized immediately after getting into the vehicle with the perpetrator? An earlier post mentioning her thoughts during the 2 hour drive up to the mine got me wondering. I think even the most pleasant, quiet, non-confrontational person would have said something to complain, protest or question the need to travel so far in such harsh terrain to hunt or to "celebrate."

If any of my posts are out of line, please tell me so.

I don't remember anything specific about your previous posts, sorry, I will have to look. I don't remember anything out of line.

IMO, I don't think the 2 hour drive was unusual for CL and Erin. I have read nothing to make me believe this, but I would imagine it wasn't uncommon for them to go far out into the desert to spend their quality time, so that they would not be caught together. It sounds like that's the environment he liked, and I think she was smitten and would've gone anywhere with him. I don't think she was held against her will, but agreed to go out with him that day because she didn't see red flags. I don't think the texts to JT were specifically to tell her they were going 2 hrs away, but I think it was brought up nonchalantly. My opinion only.

 

[Dallen]

I hate to jump back in to theories since truthbeknown just joined but I have 2 questions that I've wanted to ask for weeks. Hope you all won't mind and if it's out of line, tell me and I will delete.

1. One of early articles after Erin's body was recovered stated that the mine was "technically accessible by road," giving me the impression that ordinary vehicles, including 4x4s would have problems reaching the area. That would leave specialized military vehicle or helicopter (very unlikely, IMO), horseback or a dune buggy (of which the latter seems most likely to me. I don't know enough about horses and deserts to comment on that possibility.)
In her interview with People Magazine, IM specifically stated that CL liked taking out the ranch's dune buggy.
Has anyone else given much thought to how Erin ended up near that mine?

2. Is it possible NL set up the "pregnancy celebration" with EC via text from CL's cell phone? And by extension, killed EC herself to frame CL?
I have a little experience with being the scorned wife and I know some crazy ideas can run through your mind. NL seems like she could convince CL she did it for him and their family and he'd better get with the program and get rid of that body where it could never be found or recovered or he would be the one arrested.

I'm having problems moving past the idea that NL is pulling all the strings regarding all of this - with IM, CL, possibly many others. Her mouth. Seriously, with an ally like that, who needs enemies?

Again, I apologize for jumping into the middle of this with my unusual theories. I have read along through all of the EC threads and these notions are driving me a little batty.

The dune buggy theory has been brought up a few times, and honestly, it makes sense that he would've used it. However, given how far away the ranch is in relation to where Erin was found (like 50+ miles), the dune buggy would've had to be loaded up and brought to that side of 29 Palms. I just don't see that happening nor do I see someone driving a dune buggy 50 miles to do this when he had a Jeep he could've used (and I believe he did).
My opinion is that it could be possible NL set the whole thing up, but I really don't think NL knew about it until after CL had already committed the murder. That's just my opinion, as we all have one

 

[stayhomemommy]

I agree, and think it was to help her favorites, CL and NL. She has said so many contradictory things that one can't take anything she said at face value unless there is other evidence or testimony to support it. Like the Tractor Supply thing. What she said was so easily disproved, why bother to say it at all? Either IM is one of those people who, when her mouth engages, her brain goes into neutral - or - she was just flapping her gums saying whatever popped into her head simply to make anything she said worthless as testimony. I suspect the latter. However, I think she is wasting her time because they will still call her and make her testify to anything for which they have other testimony or evidence to support it.

Actually, now that I think about it after a few days away, I think she was so taken aback by what was unfolding around her, she told LE the truth when they took her statement. Then, reality began to set it, or NL raked her over the coals, or both, and she's flapped her jaws ever since, trying to un-do the damage she did to CL and NL's situation. But it is for naught. She can still be useful to the prosecution.

BBM: This is what I'm thinking, as well.

 

[Dmacky]

I am still on the fence about NL knowing. These are my reasons of why or why not.

Reasons why not

1. It has been reported that NL had sensed/said that CL and Erin where "getting too close."

2. CL is an compulsive liar, and manipulator. He possibly ONLY admitted to NL that he had kissed Erin, and nothing else happened. Remember, JT said CL was afraid N would divorce him and keep his daughter from him if she found out about their affair

3. How could she talk so "casually" about never finding a body to IM (who could be witness to what she was saying) if she really thought her husband did something that horrendous. To me, that's not something someone would say If they helped kill, or helped cover up a murder right after it happened. *perhaps IM's interview was taken out of context* (not saying it was)

4. How could she stay with him and let CL ANYWHERE near her daughter if she really believed that he had actually harmed Erin?

5. Why would they take 2 horses back to Alaska?
6. She didn't give/help CL with an alibi for that day
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Reasons why

1. NL had to know/think something, especially after her house was searched and items were taken!

2. The things she said to IM. I know, I listed that above, but I am as confused as everyone as to why she would say those things.

3. She is a person of interest.

4. She hated EC, which is ironic to me~ she should hate her husband

5. She would to anything to keep her family together ???? and just get back home to Alaska. :banghead: I don't know.....

6. CL is an compulsive liar, and manipulator...maybe she is too???

 

[DocBrew]

Isn't it up to CL whether she's allowed to testify against him or not?

Two further scenarios apply to defeat the attachment of the spousal communications privilege: if the confidential communication was made in order to plan or commit crime or fraud, or if a defendant-spouse wishes, in a criminal trial, to testify in her own defense, about a confidential marital communication. In these five cases, a court will not allow either spouse to assert the privilege to block the testimony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_privilege

Also, the general privilege varies by jurisdiction. Federal law leaves it to the spouse-witness on whether to waive, whereas states vary between leaving it up to the spouse-witness and leaving it up to the spouse-defendant. Planning and/or committing a crime still supersedes those things, however.

 

[emt4526]

The dune buggy theory has been brought up a few times, and honestly, it makes sense that he would've used it. However, given how far away the ranch is in relation to where Erin was found (like 50+ miles), the dune buggy would've had to be loaded up and brought to that side of 29 Palms. I just don't see that happening nor do I see someone driving a dune buggy 50 miles to do this when he had a Jeep he could've used (and I believe he did).
My opinion is that it could be possible NL set the whole thing up, but I really don't think NL knew about it until after CL had already committed the murder. That's just my opinion, as we all have one

My experience with the area is that a stock SUV with decent tires can get to 90% of the sites there if the driver is careful. That's what we did - drove in with Suburbans, Toyota Pickups and similar vehicles. Some of our searches required hiking, but nothing long. There were a couple of Jeeps involved, and they mostly helped get to places faster as opposed to not being able to reach them at all.

 

[stayhomemommy]

3. How could she talk so "casually" about never finding a body to IM (who could be witness to what she was saying) if she really thought her husband did something that horrendous. To me, that's not something someone would say If they helped kill, or helped cover up a murder right after it happened. *perhaps IM's interview was taken out of context* (not saying it was)


6. She didn't give/help CL with an alibi for that day

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4. She hated EC, which is ironic to me~ she should hate her husband

<respectfully snipped and bolded by me, for focus>

3. Perhaps she thought joking about it would somehow make her look less suspicious? I know that sounds weird, but I've seen people do it. Not with murder, but with affairs and other things.

6. Maybe she'd already told the cops her own alibi, thereby negating giving CL a alibi?

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4. Many wives prefer to hate and blame the other woman.

 

[maskedwoman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_privilege

Also, the general privilege varies by jurisdiction. Federal law leaves it to the spouse-witness on whether to waive, whereas states vary between leaving it up to the spouse-witness and leaving it up to the spouse-defendant. Planning and/or committing a crime still supersedes those things, however.

THAT is the piece I was missing that me confused. So, would NL be able to testify against him if she were charged with being an accessory after the fact? Or could she only testify against him at her own trial?

 

[DocBrew]

THAT is the piece I was missing that me confused. So, would NL be able to testify against him if she were charged with being an accessory after the fact? Or could she only testify against him at her own trial?

If she was complicit in any way (re: the crime itself, conspiracy, or the cover up), she could be granted immunity from prosecution provided that she testifies against him. Her testimony against him would be permitted because she was complicit in a crime. The way I read it, she would not need to be charged for privilege to be waived/unenforceable. IMO.