Found Deceased CA - Erin Valenti, 33, from Utah, en-route from Palo Alto to San Jose, 7 Oct 2019 #2

[Seattle1]

I haven't had a chance to get all the details but from what I know of this case, it reminds me of a situation I had. A guy who was at a dinner I attended drugged me. There was about 10 of us and I had no idea he was interested in me. I had to leave after dinner and got into my car sober. By the time I parked, I was so messed up I fell out of my car. I couldn't find my friend's apartment that I had been to many times even though I could see her patio door from my car. I lost my shoes in the parking lot, broke her towel holder with my body when I crashed into her wall, couldn't stand, lost my purse and wallet and couldn't remember almost anything after leaving the dinner besides being more messed up than I have ever been. I woke up passed out on my knees and face with my voicemail full from messages from him and about 25 missed calls. Found out a couple days later he drugged me with liquid ketamine. I never had any bad vibe from him and was shocked he did that at a friendly private dinner with close friends. This reminds me of that. I bet Jacobson knows why she was the way she was

I really appreciate you sharing this information about Ketamine especially because I thought it was simply an anesthetic. I had no idea about the "club drug" use, etc.

Just read that when used as a medicine, it's clear liquid and "street" Ketamine usually a white powder. I'd think the liquid form would be very potent stuff.

 

[Mzt]

I really appreciate you sharing this information about Ketamine especially because I thought it was simply an anesthetic. I had no idea about the "club drug" use, etc.

Just read that when used as a medicine, it's clear liquid and "street" Ketamine usually a white powder. I'd think the liquid form would be very potent stuff.

I would have had no idea what had happened if he didnt go and admit there was an empty vial. I didn't even know there were drugs like that in the home or that I was being preyed on by someone I knew. I have no idea if anything like this happened to Erin but I immediately got flash backs reading her story. There are lots of other kinds used to drug people and it's more common than people realize. Dying in the backseat alone with her doors locked isn't a normal way to go. Lots of drugs used to drug people cause respiratory and heart rate depression. She may have passed out and didn't wake up. I'm lucky I did. Hopefully we find out the toxicology report soon and her family can have some closure.

 

[crhedBngr]

I haven't had a chance to get all the details but from what I know of this case, it reminds me of a situation I had. A guy who was at a dinner I attended drugged me. There was about 10 of us and I had no idea he was interested in me. I had to leave after dinner and got into my car sober. By the time I parked, I was so messed up I fell out of my car. I couldn't find my friend's apartment that I had been to many times even though I could see her patio door from my car. I lost my shoes in the parking lot, broke her towel holder with my body when I crashed into her wall, couldn't stand, lost my purse and wallet and couldn't remember almost anything after leaving the dinner besides being more messed up than I have ever been. I woke up passed out on my knees and face with my voicemail full from messages from him and about 25 missed calls. Found out a couple days later he drugged me with liquid ketamine. I never had any bad vibe from him and was shocked he did that at a friendly private dinner with close friends. This reminds me of that. I bet Jacobson knows why she was the way she was

Geez, just reread this thread, and saw your awful experience! So sorry this happened to you!

 

[Seattle1]

I would have had no idea what had happened if he didnt go and admit there was an empty vial. I didn't even know there were drugs like that in the home or that I was being preyed on by someone I knew. I have no idea if anything like this happened to Erin but I immediately got flash backs reading her story. There are lots of other kinds used to drug people and it's more common than people realize. Dying in the backseat alone with her doors locked isn't a normal way to go. Lots of drugs used to drug people cause respiratory and heart rate depression. She may have passed out and didn't wake up. I'm lucky I did. Hopefully we find out the toxicology report soon and her family can have some closure.

More baffling is that Erin's mania/odd state seemingly lasted at least 7 hours. Her parents and husband allegedly alternated talking to her on the phone from about 3:30 pm when she couldn't find her rental car up until around midnight. I wish they would have recorded their calls. Still a tragedy and a mystery...

 

[squareandrabbet]

As a counterpoint, I had a friend in college diagnosed as bipolar, after what we thought was her first bout with a manic episode, which was in fact pretty dramatic.

Most of the details have eluded me as time went on, largely because we tried to steer her away from dwelling daily upon the delusions she'd suffered while in the middle of this manic phase, thinking it probably wasn't healthy for her.

One of the things I do remember, however, like it was yesterday, was the selfsame friend recanting the dramatic story she'd told us almost upon first acquaintance (she was a transfer student joining us late from another college), which involved a jealous girl roofie-ing my friend at a party at the previous college.

Of course, we believed this story without question - why wouldn't we? We had no reason to doubt her.

Well, lo and behold, after the manic episode I had been handy to experience, this friend came to a revelation which led to her proclaiming that the roofie-ing story was in fact a self-protecting lie; and that in retrospect, she was pretty sure that she had in fact experienced her first manic attack when at her prior college.

Moral of the story: I've firsthand seen someone who sincerely convinced themselves that they had been drugged in order to produce a manic reaction. However, in this case, it was not the drugs which produced the mania; but mania which produced a state of unreality that my friend could only at the time attribute to drugs, due to her total inexperience with any kind of manic episode (or, I assume, drugs).

 

[MJPeony]

Thank you for that. Up until now, I thought that Erin was actually from SLC, but apparently her parents live in the East? So, they would not have had a lot of day-to-day face-to-face contact with her, recently. If her moods were becoming unregulated, they would have had only phone calls by which to judge.

It's easy to miss hypomania, that's for sure. One thing that strikes me is how incredibly social she was. Lots of energy for meeting others/networking.

Some of the triggers for a more full blown bout of mania would include lack of sleep, exciting new stimuli, travel. IOW, disruption to regular routines. Some bipolars, as they go through treatment, realize this and get remarkably concerned about maintaining whatever routine they think is working for them.

It's possible that Erin had had trouble sleeping in the past and had some sort of sleep medicine with her, but it's still really hard to explain how she could fall asleep and just not wake up. The toxicology report should be available soon, I'd think.

BBM

This remains my theory:

Bipolar manic episode + alcohol + sleep aid such as Valium (a benzodiazepine).

That combination in the right dosages (or wrong as the case may be) can and does cause people to fall asleep and not wake up.



MOO.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I would have had no idea what had happened if he didnt go and admit there was an empty vial. I didn't even know there were drugs like that in the home or that I was being preyed on by someone I knew. I have no idea if anything like this happened to Erin but I immediately got flash backs reading her story. There are lots of other kinds used to drug people and it's more common than people realize. Dying in the backseat alone with her doors locked isn't a normal way to go. Lots of drugs used to drug people cause respiratory and heart rate depression. She may have passed out and didn't wake up. I'm lucky I did. Hopefully we find out the toxicology report soon and her family can have some closure.

From my personal experience administering this drug to animals; you do sometimes get very idiosyncratic reactions to ketamine. Whereas it is normally somewhat paralytic, some animals (rats and mice) would get very agitated and aggressive. The only issue with this as a candidate here is the length of time she was affected. Very few drugs have affects that last 7-12 hours or more.

 

[happyday]

From my personal experience administering this drug to animals; you do sometimes get very idiosyncratic reactions to ketamine. Whereas it is normally somewhat paralytic, some animals (rats and mice) would get very agitated and aggressive. The only issue with this as a candidate here is the length of time she was affected. Very few drugs have affects that last 7-12 hours or more.

BBM

But perhaps if she was having a bipolar manic episode and then took (or was given) too much of a drug the episode could last that long before death? And the effects would be unpredictable during mania.

Or @MJPeony ‘s idea that during a manic episode she mixed benzos and alcohol. This is a good theory IMO b/c benzos and alcohol can be very deadly and are extremely common for people to have. A manic episode could prolong the odd effects of those I would think.

I wonder if basically a bipolar manic episode could have extended the effects of whatever drug ended up killing her.

 

[Seattle1]

From my personal experience administering this drug to animals; you do sometimes get very idiosyncratic reactions to ketamine. Whereas it is normally somewhat paralytic, some animals (rats and mice) would get very agitated and aggressive. The only issue with this as a candidate here is the length of time she was affected. Very few drugs have affects that last 7-12 hours or more.

I wonder how this type of drug would work if one continued to unknowingly ingest the substance. Could this prolong the effect? For example -- what if it was inside her water bottle that she took sips of over several hours.

(I don't think this happened but I'm now very curious after learning about Ketamine).

 

[SeattleStew]

I wonder how this type of drug would work if one continued to unknowingly ingest the substance. Could this prolong the effect? For example -- what if it was inside her water bottle that she took sips of over several hours.

(I don't think this happened but I'm now very curious after learning about Ketamine).

I've noticed a few "Ketamine Clinics" in the Seattle area opening up recently. Apparently, Ketamine is found to be helpful for some patients who experience depression.

 

[MsArk]

I’ve been quietly following along but know there are many “designer” type drugs that no one really know how they will react to, half life or risk factor. My guess is these type of substances would be easily procured in the type of environment she was in. I don’t think it was alcohol/Benzo as that combination would have put her to sleep prior to death.

Whatever happened, such a sad end to an obviously talented young woman.

JMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

I wonder how this type of drug would work if one continued to unknowingly ingest the substance. Could this prolong the effect? For example -- what if it was inside her water bottle that she took sips of over several hours.

(I don't think this happened but I'm now very curious after learning about Ketamine).

The very same thing occurred to me.

 

[Blurgle]

I was reading recently of a woman who suddenly began to experience manic and psychotic episodes. Her underlying issue was undiagnosed celiac disease causing malabsorption of certain vitamins.

 

[NoSI]

Very true… Ketamine is the new hype in Psychiatry as it is a powerful antidepressant and can decrease and stop suicidal ideation. I went to a conference recently and ketamine was a heavily discussed topic. With current antidepressant, less than 50% of individuals get better within the first 3 months and about 33% of individuals remain depressed after multiple pharmacotherapies. Ketamine is exciting as it works different than current medications and has a much faster onset. It was found to be effective in 50-70% of cases who were considered to be treatment-resistant. However, there are also drawbacks. Ketamine can potentially induce a psychotic state, dissociative state, can lead to significant sedation, high blood pressure, fast heart rate, and in long-term use we worry about effects on cognition. Dizziness, disorientation, confusion, and word-finding problems can occur. Ketamine is also an abuse-able substance and can lead to dependence.

I don’t know how we got to Ketamine and don’t know the exact context as I missed a lot of posts, but Ketamine is pretty easy to procure these days from compound pharmacies, pharmacies etc. and comes in a lot of different forms (intranasal spray, lozenges, infusions…). People definitely know about it and come to appointments asking for it.

 

[Knox]

Very true… Ketamine is the new hype in Psychiatry as it is a powerful antidepressant and can decrease and stop suicidal ideation. I went to a conference recently and ketamine was a heavily discussed topic. With current antidepressant, less than 50% of individuals get better within the first 3 months and about 33% of individuals remain depressed after multiple pharmacotherapies. Ketamine is exciting as it works different than current medications and has a much faster onset. It was found to be effective in 50-70% of cases who were considered to be treatment-resistant. However, there are also drawbacks. Ketamine can potentially induce a psychotic state, dissociative state, can lead to significant sedation, high blood pressure, fast heart rate, and in long-term use we worry about effects on cognition. Dizziness, disorientation, confusion, and word-finding problems can occur. Ketamine is also an abuse-able substance and can lead to dependence.

I don’t know how we got to Ketamine and don’t know the exact context as I missed a lot of posts, but Ketamine is pretty easy to procure these days from compound pharmacies, pharmacies etc. and comes in a lot of different forms (intranasal spray, lozenges, infusions…). People definitely know about it and come to appointments asking for it.

Fascinating, thank you for sharing. Curious if you have any personal experience with patient success?

 

[Seattle1]

Very true… Ketamine is the new hype in Psychiatry as it is a powerful antidepressant and can decrease and stop suicidal ideation. I went to a conference recently and ketamine was a heavily discussed topic. With current antidepressant, less than 50% of individuals get better within the first 3 months and about 33% of individuals remain depressed after multiple pharmacotherapies. Ketamine is exciting as it works different than current medications and has a much faster onset. It was found to be effective in 50-70% of cases who were considered to be treatment-resistant. However, there are also drawbacks. Ketamine can potentially induce a psychotic state, dissociative state, can lead to significant sedation, high blood pressure, fast heart rate, and in long-term use we worry about effects on cognition. Dizziness, disorientation, confusion, and word-finding problems can occur. Ketamine is also an abuse-able substance and can lead to dependence.

I don’t know how we got to Ketamine and don’t know the exact context as I missed a lot of posts, but Ketamine is pretty easy to procure these days from compound pharmacies, pharmacies etc. and comes in a lot of different forms (intranasal spray, lozenges, infusions…). People definitely know about it and come to appointments asking for it.

Thanks for sharing more info. We got to Ketamine after another poster shared their experience when they were unknowingly drugged with the liquid substance.

CA - Erin Valenti, 33, from Utah, en-route from Palo Alto to San Jose, 7 Oct 2019 #2

 

[NoSI]

Fascinating, thank you for sharing. Curious if you have any personal experience with patient success?

Hi @Knox, thank you so much for your reply. No, I have not prescribed ketamine as of yet as the organization I work for does not offer ketamine infusions for depression (yet). I am still researching and trying to weigh risks and benefits of the intranasal ketamine (esketamine), which was FDA-approved in March 2019 for severe depression. I am a bit conservative and want to be sure that benefits outweigh risks and we do not create another problem long-term. I do work with a couple of patients that are prescribed intranasal ketamine for pain. I think that a barrier is also getting the esketamine covered by insurance and the cost remains very high.

 

[NoSI]

Thanks for sharing more info. We got to Ketamine after another poster shared their experience when they were unknowingly drugged with the liquid substance.

CA - Erin Valenti, 33, from Utah, en-route from Palo Alto to San Jose, 7 Oct 2019 #2

Thank you so much, @Seattle1. I appreciate your reply. From what I read/hear, ketamine can definitely effect people differently and some describe their response as "scary".

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thank you so much, @Seattle1. I appreciate your reply. From what I read/hear, ketamine can definitely effect people differently and some describe their response as "scary".

Ketamine scares me. Just from what little I know about it. I'm one of those people that can't take narcotics, though. Drugs scare me.

 

[Seattle1]

Hi @Knox, thank you so much for your reply. No, I have not prescribed ketamine as of yet as the organization I work for does not offer ketamine infusions for depression (yet). I am still researching and trying to weigh risks and benefits of the intranasal ketamine (esketamine), which was FDA-approved in March 2019 for severe depression. I am a bit conservative and want to be sure that benefits outweigh risks and we do not create another problem long-term. I do work with a couple of patients that are prescribed intranasal ketamine for pain. I think that a barrier is also getting the esketamine covered by insurance and the cost remains very high.

I just learned that a former associate was treated in NY with Ketermin for Rx resistant depression. I understand it worked immediately and thought a brilliant breakthrough while it lasted. She's since moved on to some type of electro-therapy.